Dáil debates

Wednesday, 28 January 2009

Ceisteanna — Questions

Departmental Expenditure.

11:00 am

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the priorities for his Department in regard to its Estimate for 2009. [32380/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his Department's Estimate for 2009. [35744/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he expects to publish a Revised Estimate for his Department for 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1003/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his Department's Estimate for 2009. [1777/09]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 8, inclusive, together.

The total allocation for my Department in the Estimates set out in the budget for 2009 is €36.269 million. This is an overall decrease of 14%, some €5.871 million, on the 2008 Revised Estimate allocation. This decrease includes the transfer of the information society and e-inclusion functions and associated funding of €3.507 million from my Vote to the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and the Department of Finance.

I look forward to addressing specific issues relating to the Estimates provisions when they are considered in the usual way by the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service. I also look forward to responding to questions which Deputies may wish to table separately regarding specific aspects of the work of my Department. It is envisaged that Revised Estimates for 2009 will be published in March this year.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach expect to amend the Estimate for his Department shortly? By what amount does he anticipate the Estimate will be amended? With regard to the provision for the payment of staff, which I understand is in the order of €14 million——

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Can the Deputy repeat that, please?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There is approximately €14 million allocated for staff costs in the Department's Estimate. How much of that is in respect of the staff of the private and constituency offices of the Taoiseach and the Ministers of State attached to his Department? With regard to the provision in the Estimate for the Moriarty tribunal, we are told the tribunal is to hold a renewed round of public hearings. Can the Taoiseach confirm whether this is the case, or if he knows anything about that? Will the Taoiseach explain what the implications will be for the Estimate which has been provided for the Moriarty tribunal?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have the specific information available in terms of the Minister for State and my constituency office. I will have to get that for the Deputy and correspond with him. I cannot anticipate Government decisions regarding any savings made in the days ahead until they are made. There was a small provision for the Moriarty tribunal. I am not aware that public hearings are being provided for again. We must deal with that situation again, should it arise, by way of a Supplementary Estimate later in the year.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Those three replies can be reduced as follows: the Taoiseach does not know the answer to one question, he will not provide the answer to the second question and he has not properly heard the third question. I wish to concentrate on the third question, because I find the matter somewhat strange. I recall the Taoiseach told us on a previous occasion, when I put questions concerning the Moriarty tribunal, that he anticipated there would be a renewed round of hearings. I remember this because it surprised me at the time, and it was the first occasion anyone heard that the Moriarty tribunal was going to hold further public hearings. It is now in the public domain, or at least it has been reported in newspapers, that it is expected the tribunal will convene further public hearings. I wish to know if that is the case. The finance for the tribunal is provided for in the Taoiseach's Estimate. There is a reduction in the 2009 Estimate to €7.5 million. If there are to be new public hearings of the tribunal, is it not fair to assume the cost is likely to increase? Has any consideration been given to this in the context of examining anticipated expenditure by the Taoiseach's Department in the coming year?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to subhead F and the costs of the Moriarty tribunal 2009. As the Deputy stated, €7.516 million was provided. That provision relates to the running costs of the tribunal in 2009 and the costs which are estimated to arise in 2009 regarding the completion of the tribunal's work. It is expected to include reporting costs and some element of award of legal costs. As it is not possible to definitively assess the amount of legal costs which may be awarded by the tribunal or the timing of these awards, a provision of approximately €7.516 has been included. However, this is only an estimate of the costs. This is a reduction of the 2008 allocation due to the fact that there is a reduced provision for legal fees in 2009, given the intention of the tribunal to conclude its work as early as possible in 2009. In a recent commitment to me, the sole member of the tribunal stated that he may need to convene a sitting to take a limited amount of further evidence, and that he would keep me informed of the likely developments and the likely impact on the timetable.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There has been a cut of 14% in the Taoiseach's Department. What is the Taoiseach's view on the future of the National Forum on Europe, the allocation of which has been cut by 42%? Is it in suspension, or does the Taoiseach see it having a role to play in the future programme for the next Lisbon referendum? Does the Taoiseach envisage a change in the role and status of the forum?

In respect of the Moriarty tribunal, Mr. Justice Moriarty can only write the report based on what he has heard. Does the Taoiseach have information as to the provision for lawyers to write up other sections of the report? Is that work continuing, pending the possibility of further public hearings?

What is the organisational review programme for which €686,000 has been provided this year, and what is that programme supposed to do?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the first question regarding the forum. It will meet in working group session. I understand it has decided to meet in a working group session rather than in plenary session as it is more effective.

Obviously, an allocation has been made to it this year, within which one hopes it must operate. Second, in respect of the Moriarty issue, that matter is being dealt with by Mr. Justice Moriarty himself. As I have indicated, he has organised this to minimise the number of public hearings to avoid unnecessary costs, as he saw it, to the public. Obviously, however, he has indicated that he may need to deal with that issue again and we must wait and see whether that is the case.

The allocation for the organisational review programme, subhead a9, is a sum of €686,000. As the Deputy noted, it is being provided to cover the costs associated with that programme, including salaries, publication of reports and consultancy. The funding allocation in respect of consultancy has been halved, following the Government's decision in July 2008, to €46,000. This programme is about trying to ascertain how the Government can reorganise programmes in various Departments in a more cost-effective manner. It constitutes a strategic overview by the Department of the Taoiseach to try to drive efficiency and effectiveness in the delivery of programmes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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A good public servant with some experience would do that on his or her own. As the Taoiseach is aware, such expertise exists within the public service.

Last year, the Comptroller and Auditor General issued a damning report on the Government's strategy for what it calls e-Government. He described the target of having all public services capable of being delivered on-line by 2006 as being clearly unrealistic and the roll-out as being average. Despite the existence of a Government subcommittee on e-Government, no strategy has been in place since 2006 and Ireland's position has fallen from first in 2001 to seventeenth in 2007. While a total of €420 million was spent, which was 20% over budget, it yielded only half the on-line services that were set out. Of the 141 flagship projects to provide Government services, 23 were abandoned and a further 44 were only partially implemented by mid-2006. Moreover, only half the projects were fully operational six months after the deadline had passed. When will the Government produce an updated and credible strategy for the delivery of e-Government and when will such a strategy be published?

Second, this is an area in which the Government set out to increase competitiveness. Does the Taoiseach accept that the failure in his Department in this respect goes to the heart of what has been debated in this House, namely, the lack of capacity to be competitive on the part of the Government? My understanding is that the e-Government programme was approved by the Department of the Taoiseach and was run by an assistant secretary from that Department. Given the litany of failures outlined by the Comptroller and Auditor General, was a bonus paid to that section of the Department for this work? The last report of the committee for performance awards relates to 2006, at which time all 205 people who were eligible for bonuses received them. As the person who is doing it his way and is driving this on, is the Taoiseach satisfied with the findings of this report on delivery? Is the Taoiseach satisfied that Ireland has slipped from first position to seventeenth? Is he satisfied with the comments made by the Comptroller and Auditor General? When does he propose to have someone take charge of this issue, publish an updated credible strategy for e-Government and deliver it in the interest of efficiency, to which he referred in respect of the previous question?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I pointed out, part of the decrease in my Department's Vote pertains to the transfer of the Information Society and e-inclusion functions from its Vote to those of the Departments of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and Finance. The Government considers that the funding would be better expended on the workload in which people in those Departments are involved in this regard. Obviously, the Government will continue to seek to implement this policy to the best of its ability. The transfer has been about ensuring that activities that are under way in other Departments are joined up with that specific project.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I note that the pay and pensions Estimate for 2009 published for the Department of the Taoiseach in tandem with the budget shows a 9% decrease over the 2008 forecasted outturn. Can the Taoiseach explain to the House how this figure is arrived at? What are the specific reductions, cost savings, etc., that give rise to a 9% decrease in respect of pay and pensions? Does it include address of the extent of the non-Civil Service advisers within the Department of the Taoiseach? Has the Taoiseach carried out a review of their relevance or an assessment of the availability of at least equal advisory capacity within the Civil Service itself?

I note the Moriarty tribunal has been mentioned by other Members. Certainly, the provision of €7.5 million in 2009 for a tribunal of inquiry that already has presented its so-called final report after 11 years of sitting, which is even longer than the last Taoiseach sat in office, is hardly credible. This has contributed greatly to the undermining of public confidence in the entire tribunal of inquiry process. I refer to the amount of time, the years involved and the overall cost. Surely it is time to bring this matter to finality.

Can the Taoiseach indicate whether it is intended to retain the steward's house at Farmleigh, which has been refurbished at a cost of €600,000? At the time, Members were told by the former Taoiseach that it was intended to be a Taoiseach's residence. Is the Taoiseach considering taking up occupancy of the property at any time? I understand that since 2006, this facility has only been used for overnight purposes 11 times. To what other uses does the Taoiseach intend to see this property put, if it is not to be a city residence for the Taoiseach while in Dublin on business?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Specific questions on pensions issues and similar matters should be tabled as I do not have such information to hand. As for the Mahon tribunal, the question of bringing such tribunals to a conclusion is a matter that has been dealt with by the various responsible Ministers by interacting with the tribunals themselves. As the public hearings now are over, one would expect the commensurate costs to reduce greatly and they are being reduced. This is being done in an effort to finalise the drafting of the reports by those who were appointed by this House to draw up the reports, that is, the judges themselves, and to enable this to happen as soon as possible. Given the lengthy hearings that have taken place over many years, it will be a matter for them to pull together and collate the relevant evidence and to provide their findings in due course.

As for the question on Farmleigh, I have used it from time to time.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I referred to the steward's house at Farmleigh, as it was formerly known.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I have used the steward's house from time to time, as I have required it. While I have not used it regularly, I have used more frequently in the new year than was the case previously.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has indicated that he will use the facility, which is fair enough. However, given 11 nights' occupancy over the period of almost three years since 2006, good value for money does not appear to have been achieved heretofore.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will not mind if I go home every now and again.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Perhaps, as a country-based Deputy like me, the Taoiseach might have more need and use of the facility during his term in office.

In respect of the 9% reduction in the pay and pensions Estimate, I appended a further question. I can understand if the Taoiseach does not have the information to hand immediately. However, can he respond to the query on the non-Civil Service advisers that I appended to the initial question? Has a review being carried out regarding their relevance or the need to continue to have whatever is the number of such non-Civil Service advisers within the Taoiseach's Department? Has he made an assessment of the equal quality of advice available to him from within the Civil Service, within his Department? Has he taken any such steps to examine the savings that might result from such an exercise?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Given my overriding responsibilities as Taoiseach, the number of staff I have are required to help me do the job given the range of responsibilities that it entails. They are appointed for that purpose and serve me for that purpose.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sin deireadh le ceisteanna chun an Taoisigh. That is the end of questions to the Taoiseach for today.