Dáil debates
Wednesday, 17 December 2008
Order of Business
11:00 am
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. a12, motion re Spent Convictions Bill 2007; No. 25, statements on European Council, Brussels; No. 12 motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimate [Vote 31] and, subject to the agreement of No. 12, to take Supplementary Estimate [Vote 31]; No. 4, Appropriation Bill 2008 — Order for Second Stage and Second and Remaining Stages; No. 24, Finance (No. 2) Bill 2008 — Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stages; and No. 37, Spent Convictions Bill 2007 — Second Stage [subject to the agreement of No. a12]. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted on the conclusion of No. 61 — motion re housing (resumed), which shall be taken for 90 minutes at 7 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 24, whichever is the later; (2) No. a12 shall be decided without debate; (3) the proceedings on No. 25 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, and shall be confined to the Taoiseach and to the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, and which shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) immediately following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes; (4) the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) shall take place at 1.30 p.m., or on the conclusion of No. 25, whichever is the later, until 2.30 p.m.; (5) No. 12 shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith, and subject to the agreement of No. 12, Supplementary Estimate [Vote 31] shall be moved and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes, and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith, and the following arrangements shall apply: the speeches shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, and which shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; (6) No. 4 shall be taken today and Second and Remaining Stages shall be decided without debate by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; and (7) the proceedings on the Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stages of No. 24 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are seven proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. agreed to?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the point Deputy Gilmore made in his leader's question about the Dáil rising until the end of January. I wish to comment on Dáil sittings. The Taoiseach rightly pointed out that the committees are back on 7 January. I respect the fact that Ministers will be abroad at some stage in January on delegations and carrying out national business. That is part of Government responsibility and it is necessary that, on occasion, Ministers lead delegations abroad to make further connections with other countries on behalf of this country. I respect that.
However, at a time when 10,000 people a month are losing their jobs, and when the most time off for those who have jobs is a week at Christmas time, it is perverse that the Parliament — the Dáil — should be off until the end of January. It has always been a matter of perception that because the committees are back, the Dáil is in session. That is true to an extent.
I object to the Order of Business because I would like the Dáil to come back on 7 January, the same day as the committees, to conduct its business on behalf of the people. I know the Chief Whip does not like that but 10,000 people a month are losing their jobs and those who have jobs have a week off at Christmas and that is it. There is a real job of work to be done for the country. There is a real challenge facing Government and a need for drive, enthusiasm and leadership. I will accept the Order of Business if the Taoiseach tells me that the Dáil will be recalled on 7 January but, if not, I will vote against it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with what Deputy Kenny has said. This House should be back on 7 January. When he was replying to me earlier the Taoiseach indicated the Government would be back on 7 January. He outlined that some Ministers have overseas commitments, which I understand, and that can be facilitated in the normal course of how we do our business.
It is important there is public confidence in politics. A Dáil recess up to the end of January will scandalise the public. Here we are in the middle of an economic problem and the Dáil is going into recess until the end of January. The history of Dáil recesses to the end of January goes back to a time when the budget was at the end of January. The rationale for it was that the Dáil did not come back after the Christmas recess until the end of January because the Government was dealing with the budget and needed time to prepare the budget. That no longer applies. There is no justification whatever for a recess up to the end of January.
I support what Deputy Kenny has said. The House should be back in business on 7 January. I support also his opposition to the Order of Business unless the Taoiseach can give us an assurance on the matter.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Of course there might be a budget in January.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Tomorrow's Order Paper will inform us of the Government's intentions regarding the recess over Christmas. As the Taoiseach is present today can he bring the Order Paper forward and advise the House as to what it will reflect tomorrow?
Yesterday, in my case, but other voices again this morning have reflected on the serious situation that now stands in the offing in regard to the health service. Yesterday we thought cuts of €500 million were planned but that has risen to some €1 billion in real terms in cuts within the health service. That needs to be addressed. The issue is critically important and it affects every one of us, irrespective of politics, as every citizen will be in need of health care in this State at some point in their lives. There is great concern already in regard to the haemorrhage of services and the continued move towards centralisation and privatisation. We need to have a full-blown debate on the floor of this House regarding the Government's intention for the health service in 2009. I ask that the Taoiseach accommodate that as early as possible, if not before Christmas at the earliest resumption date in the new year.
12:00 pm
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I reiterate that the Government will be back at work, indeed before 7 January. There will be a Government meeting on 7 January but the Government will be back before then due to the pressing issues we are dealing with. In the course of the coming weeks I have indicated that as a result of meeting with the social partners there will be intensive discussions on bringing forward a plan for economic renewal, which will include a fiscal stability programme based on those discussions. We can come into this House and debate them. Similarly, that will also be the case with the service plan for 2009 for the health service.
It is important to point out that there will not be inactivity either on a Government or parliamentary level until the end of January. From the beginning of January there will be parliamentary activity in the committee system and the Government needs the time and ability to get on with that work we are talking about in terms of preparing such a plan for economic renewal with the social partners and also engaging in necessary trade delegations out of this country as we try to maintain and shore up the orders that Irish business is finding hard to win in the present circumstances.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 76 (Dermot Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Seán Ardagh, Bobby Aylward, Niall Blaney, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Seán Connick, Mary Coughlan, Brian Cowen, Ciarán Cuffe, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Noel Dempsey, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Beverley Flynn, Pat Gallagher, Paul Gogarty, Noel Grealish, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Jackie Healy-Rae, Máire Hoctor, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Séamus Kirk, Michael Kitt, Brian Lenihan Jnr, Conor Lenihan, Martin Mansergh, Micheál Martin, Tom McEllistrim, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, M J Nolan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Darragh O'Brien, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Noel O'Flynn, Rory O'Hanlon, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Mary O'Rourke, Christy O'Sullivan, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Noel Treacy, Mary Wallace, Mary White, Michael Woods)
Against the motion: 64 (Bernard Allen, James Bannon, Seán Barrett, Pat Breen, Tommy Broughan, Richard Bruton, Ulick Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Deirdre Clune, Paul Connaughton, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Seymour Crawford, Michael Creed, Lucinda Creighton, Michael D'Arcy, John Deasy, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Olwyn Enright, Martin Ferris, Charles Flanagan, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brian Hayes, Michael D Higgins, Brendan Howlin, Paul Kehoe, Enda Kenny, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, Pádraic McCormack, Dinny McGinley, Finian McGrath, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, Arthur Morgan, Denis Naughten, Dan Neville, Michael Noonan, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Kieran O'Donnell, Fergus O'Dowd, John O'Mahony, Brian O'Shea, Jan O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Pat Rabbitte, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Alan Shatter, Tom Sheahan, P J Sheehan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Billy Timmins, Joanna Tuffy, Mary Upton, Jack Wall)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and Niall Blaney; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.
Question declared carried.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. a12 without debate, motion re Spent Convictions Bill 2007, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 25, statements on the European Council, Brussels agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal regarding the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23 (1) agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12 without debate, motion re leave to introduce and take Supplementary Estimate agreed to?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I would like clarification on No. 12 before agreeing to proposal No. 5 on the Order Paper, which refers specifically that leave be given by the Dáil to introduce Supplementary Estimates relating to the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. I would like confirmation that this is in the context of the recent crisis in the pork and bacon industry.
Will the Taoiseach clarify, in the absence of the Minister, the Government's disposition towards the applications for compensation from farmers north of the Border who used the feedstuffs supplied by the producer on this side of the Border? Will the Taoiseach also comment on the Minister's remarks on Monday that it was the Government's intention only to compensate what he described as "Irish producers"? It is my understanding that the applicant farmers north of the Border are exactly that, Irish producers. They have used feed supplied and produced on this side of the Border.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now. Does the Deputy oppose proposal No. 5?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is most unusual that a matter of this importance would be met in the House with such heckling and interference. This is a hugely important issue with regard to the principle of the acceptance of farmers throughout the island of Ireland as Irish producers and the Government's responsibility to compensate without discrimination based on geographic location. Can we please have clarification on this?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach on No. 12.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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This relates to a Supplementary Estimate to provide €50 million to the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in the context of the food scare that arose recently. Unfortunately, we can only apply it to people in our own jurisdiction.
Question, "That the proposal to deal with No. 12 without debate, motion re leave to introduce and take Supplementary Estimate, be agreed to," put and declared carried.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 4 without debate, Order for Second Stage and Second and Remaining Stages of the Appropriation Bill 2008 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 24, Report and Final Stages of the Finance (No. 2) Bill 2008 agreed to?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We have just agreed that the Appropriation Bill, which used to be the subject of a long debate in the House and an Adjournment debate at the end of a Dáil term, does not merit debate from the Government. We are now being asked to guillotine the Finance (No. 2) Bill for 7 p.m. this evening. Many of the amendments on Committee Stage of the Bill did not have an opportunity to be discussed. The country is facing severe economic difficulties and we propose to guillotine the Bill and barely allow any decent discussion on what is happening in the economy or on the implications of a Bill that disastrously decided to raise VAT by 0.5% and send people in flight to shop in the North of Ireland.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is important to be consistent in the House. I made the point to the Chief Whip at the start of this session that Fine Gael would oppose, as a matter of principle, the guillotining of Bills. Therefore, I oppose the guillotining of this Bill. There are occasions where a Bill might run out of steam in any event, but I have made the point to the Chief Whip that we will oppose every proposal to guillotine a Bill. I object to this proposal on that basis.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is most unacceptable that a Bill dealing with millions of euro of expenditure will pass through the House without open-ended debate. It would be appropriate to have such debate. I oppose the guillotining of the Bill.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The time allocations were set out clearly in the normal way and the sections were grouped to enable a full debate were Deputies minded to move along those lines. Obviously, this is an issue we must address before we leave.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 76 (Dermot Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Seán Ardagh, Bobby Aylward, Niall Blaney, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Seán Connick, Mary Coughlan, Brian Cowen, Ciarán Cuffe, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Noel Dempsey, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Beverley Flynn, Pat Gallagher, Paul Gogarty, Noel Grealish, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Jackie Healy-Rae, Máire Hoctor, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Séamus Kirk, Michael Kitt, Brian Lenihan Jnr, Conor Lenihan, Martin Mansergh, Micheál Martin, Tom McEllistrim, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, M J Nolan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Darragh O'Brien, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Noel O'Flynn, Rory O'Hanlon, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Mary O'Rourke, Christy O'Sullivan, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Noel Treacy, Mary Wallace, Mary White, Michael Woods)
Against the motion: 62 (Bernard Allen, James Bannon, Seán Barrett, Pat Breen, Tommy Broughan, Richard Bruton, Ulick Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Deirdre Clune, Paul Connaughton, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Seymour Crawford, Michael Creed, Lucinda Creighton, Michael D'Arcy, John Deasy, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Olwyn Enright, Frank Feighan, Martin Ferris, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Tom Hayes, Michael D Higgins, Brendan Howlin, Paul Kehoe, Enda Kenny, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, Pádraic McCormack, Finian McGrath, Olivia Mitchell, Arthur Morgan, Denis Naughten, Dan Neville, Michael Noonan, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Kieran O'Donnell, Fergus O'Dowd, John O'Mahony, Brian O'Shea, Jan O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Pat Rabbitte, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Alan Shatter, Tom Sheahan, P J Sheehan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Billy Timmins, Joanna Tuffy, Mary Upton, Jack Wall)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and Niall Blaney; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.
Question declared carried.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Taoiseach to be more specific about the Government's framework for the economic recovery plan and that he offer clarification. In that regard I understand there is to be a series of statements and questions tomorrow in the House in respect of banking, recapitalisation and the issues arising.
With regard to the report this morning, will the Government make an announcement tomorrow about a framework for economic recovery, or about a framework for a plan for economic recovery? Is that announcement to be made in the House, or has a different forum been chosen for it? It would appear somewhat unusual for the House to discuss the banking business, at my party's request, and the Government to be found in a different forum outlining an economic framework. When will the Dáil have an opportunity to see the framework and discuss it?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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A total of 65 minutes has been set aside to discuss the recapitalisation of the banks. That is inadequate and there is no provision for questions and answers from a Minister.
In the context of what we learned in the past 48 hours about the budgetary issues and cuts in the health services, and also about what the Taoiseach has said about an economic framework, it is very difficult to discuss the provision of up to €10 billion for Irish banks when other serious budgetary issues face the country over the Christmas period.
Can the discussion be expanded to cover not only to the banks but to include the budgetary emergency that yet again faces the Health Service Executive? Can it also include the general framework that the Taoiseach spoke about, an economic plan for getting the country through 2009? We need more time for that. If the time to be allocated was to be doubled and if there were to be provision for a question and answer session, there would then be some notion of parliamentary accountability about the exercise.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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On the same issue, given the schedule for tomorrow, it is within the Government's compass to accommodate what is being sought by Opposition voices here this morning. We need additional time to address the critical issue of the proposed recapitalisation of the banks. We need the opportunity to quiz the Minister. Some 20 minutes is not sufficient, as we have had examples of this and will have them again today in regard to other matters. We need a full-blown opportunity. That is the critical focus this House should have tomorrow, which would include the service plan for the HSE.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business tomorrow will be dealt with. It is important to point out that yesterday I met the social partners and asked them to engage in a process, which they agreed to do. I will set out the shape of that debate by issuing a framework for those discussions which will be ongoing over Christmas and into January. That is the right way to proceed. As a result of those discussions bringing forward a comprehensive approach containing an input from all the social partners on the issues, there will be an opportunity available to the House to discuss this when we come back. That is the time when we should do so.
With regard to the question of statements, as a result of a query made yesterday, I said I would agree that we could have them if Members wanted to have statements on this matter and put their views on the record of the House. The Chief Whip has accommodated this and has provided for time tomorrow in what is a very busy schedule as we head into the last week of our deliberations for this session. Sixty-five minutes should be sufficient for people to set out their position based on the statement issued on Sunday.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Cá bhfuil an tAire Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil? Tá sé as láthair arís inniu. An bhfuil slaghdán air? Ar sheol sé nóta chuig an Taoiseach?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Tá sé thuas i Lapland.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Cá bhfuil na leasuithe a bhí sé le moladh, i dtaobh caiteachais le linn na toghcháin áitiúla, ar an mBille Toghcháin (Leasú) 2008? Níl na leasuithe foilsithe aige. Has he gone completely AWOL or has he given up?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should leave that matter alone.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Does he accept there is a single-party Government?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach on the legislation.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He promised amendments on the spending limits for the local elections.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach on the Electoral (Amendment) Bill.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Report Stage of that Bill is about to be taken but there is no sign of the amendments. Another issue in which the Minister had an interest and which I would like the Taoiseach to address is the civil unions Bill, which we were to have some time ago. When will that be published? When are we likely to see the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government making a——
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——a guest appearance in the House?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To be fair to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, he is here on all occasions he is required by the House.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As is patently clear, the mandatory attendance of all the Front Bench Members at the Order of Business has been decreasing, although I see an additional honourable inclusion arriving. Tá a lán nótaí ag an dTeachta Gilmore. Bíonn a lán daoine as láthair ó am go ham.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Ar aon nós, níl sé sin in ord in aon chor.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am glad the Taoiseach can give the attendance record.
Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Minister made the 12 o'clock news, where he was wiped out by the Labour Party leader.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is hard to get going. On the question of the legislation, I understand the Electoral (Amendment) Bill will come to the House tomorrow for Report Stage.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is the problem. He was to have amendments for it but he does not have them.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Amendments will be taken on Committee Stage in the Seanad tomorrow.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Committee Stage is over.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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What of the civil unions Bill, Taoiseach?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It will be early next year.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I raised with the Ceann Comhairle yesterday the fact the Minister for Health and Children sneaked the national service plan for the HSE into the Oireachtas Library at the end of last week and did not lay it before the House until yesterday and did not tell the health spokespersons in time for the debate.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will stop the Deputy there. I will write to the Deputy about that. The Minister for Health and Children was not at fault. Unfortunately, it emanated from an error in our office for which we apologise.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I wish to raise a further issue. This document is now a complete work of fiction because there is a further €400 million in cuts, which the Minister neglected to tell us yesterday on Question Time.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle should get to the bottom of that.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I accept we definitely made mistakes——
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is an entire work of fiction. One has only to read the front of the plan, which reads: "Easy Access — Public Confidence — Staff Pride". We are faced with huge cuts. I want to know——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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We need a debate on the health services before the recess.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for the Whips.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Anything positive in this document is entirely negated by the €400 million which we were not told about before.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows I cannot go into that now.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is absolutely meaningless. We have Mary in wonderland as Minister who says——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Crawford.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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We need a debate on the health services. We did not have the information yesterday when we——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for the Whips. I cannot do anything about it. I call Deputy Crawford.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is ridiculous to publish the service plan yesterday and then yesterday evening tell us there is another €400 million in cuts.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am certain Deputy Stagg will be able to represent the Deputy's views at the Whips meeting. I call Deputy Crawford.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is disastrous for the health services.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I would gladly give time for a discussion on that issue because it is vital there is a full-blown discussion on the mismanagement of the health service.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy heard what I had to say about that so he should move on.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I want to raise three specific issues. First, thankfully, the industrial development Bill was given to us today. When will it be debated in the House? Retail and manufacturing business in the whole Border region in particular is disappearing and it is vital we get the Bill into the House as quickly as possible.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot talk about the Bill now.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Second, I am not sure whether the following Bill will be any use because Monaghan Hospital will be closed when the Minister gets away tomorrow.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It has nothing to do with that.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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It may not be relevant here but it is certainly relevant to the people of Monaghan. When will the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill be brought to the House?
Lastly, in light of the fact farmers in REPS 4 were promised their money last September and are now told they will not get it until the end of January, when will there be a debate on that whole issue——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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——so these people will know when they will be paid?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach on the three Bills.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the first Bill was published today. There is no date for the second Bill and the third issue does not require a Bill.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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I understand the industrial development Bill concerns aggregate grants for research and development and also concerns Enterprise Ireland taking over from Shannon Development with regard to indigenous industry in the locality. It is critical that this is brought before the House as a matter of urgency in the context of the recession and, further, in the context of Dell in Limerick. I have written to the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste on the issue.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to wait for a reply because we cannot talk about it now.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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I would like the Taoiseach to intervene. It is critical that this is brought before the House. The Tánaiste needs to make a statement on her discussions with Michael Dell. There is uncertainty and I would like the Taoiseach to comment.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach has indicated when it will come before the House.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I support Deputy O'Donnell fully with regard to Dell in Limerick. It is dreadful for the area.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Durkan.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should comment because----
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not in order. I will try to facilitate the Deputy. I call Deputy Durkan.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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I have put it down for the Adjournment debate.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am sure the Ceann Comhairle, like me and many others, is very concerned about the continued invisibility of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not, and the Deputy should not be either.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am just trying to help at this festive time. I suggest the heading of a Bill: the restoration of visibility Bill. Perhaps the Taoiseach would consider introducing such a Bill to encourage him back into the House. It would increase his visibility.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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He should wear a high-visibility vest.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have two issues which are pertinent. One is in regard to the transfer of undertakings (pensions) Bill, which could be an appropriate Bill to discuss at present given that the Government proposes to raid the National Pensions Reserve Fund. The other issue is in regard to the concerns of the coastal and inland fisheries interests and anglers. Both the fisheries (amendment) Bill and the fisheries (consolidation) Bill would have an impact and are pertinent in the context of the current discussions at EU level.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is not a date for the first Bill mentioned by the Deputy and the other two will be next year, probably.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is there a date for the disability Bill?
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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A parliamentary question I tabled has been disallowed. I asked the Minster for Transport the action he will take following the recent "Prime Time Investigates" programme on the haulage industry. The question was disallowed on the basis that the Minister has no responsibility for this area and that it is a matter for the Road Safety Authority. Does the Minister have responsibility for anything?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, but we cannot go into that matter now.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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This is a very serious matter concerning road safety and the Minister has said he has no responsibility.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter is not in order. I strongly advise the Deputy to table the matter on the adjournment.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I am pressing this issue and I call on the Minister to respond.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot press any further with this matter.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach and the Minister for Social and Family Affairs for their response to an issue I raised last week on the Order of Business. However, the people of Balbriggan still have no labour exchange and——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can find out somewhere else. That is not related to any legislation.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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It is under legislation also. This has happened through lack of planning which is symptomatic of the Government. Everyone knew this lady would retire and that a new office was needed. People were left high and dry.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the relevant legislation?
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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In the past 24 hours, 60 more jobs have been lost in north Dublin.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation does the Deputy refer?
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Some people must now travel to Coolock and Gardiner Street.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot allow this.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Is there any legislation planned for so-called head shops selling what should be illicit substances? They are legal substances under the law as it currently stands. Will legislation be tabled by the Minister for Health and Children, or the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to control these shops?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in this area?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Not of which I am aware.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I am disappointed, because the Minister for Health and Children said she would consider the matter.
I refer to the VHI legislation. People are receiving bills now. The levies are in place, yet there is no legal basis for them. When will the legislation for the VHI be tabled?
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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What is the position regarding the adoption Bill? I have received numerous representations concerning the adoption of children from Vietnam. I seek an up-to-date position on the adoption Bill 2008.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I expect it will be published shortly. It was discussed recently at Cabinet.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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One evening recently at 9 p.m. there were 11 citizens aged more than 80 years of age sitting on chairs in the accident and emergency unit of the Mater Hospital, Dublin. I represented a 96 year old constituent at the time.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot deal with that matter now.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Is the Taoiseach ashamed of this?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy may ask about legislation.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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My second question relates to the slashing of the budget for Pobal and local development companies. Will the Taoiseach indicate if there will be a chance to discuss this? The Minister for Community, Rural and Gaelatacht Affairs, Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív, told us in one of his more lucid moments there would be major cutbacks in the local development area.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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This is at a time when we need more resources.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must move on if no one else has a contribution.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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My colleague has fought a very valuable campaign on the matter.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is unfortunate that neither of the matters raised by the Deputy are in order. If I allow Deputy Broughan to ask such questions and if I allow the Taoiseach to answer, then I must do likewise for everyone else. I am sure the Deputy understands that we must be consistent. We will move on to the motion on the Spent Convictions Bill 2007, but first I call Deputy Burton.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The National Pensions Reserve Fund Act 2000 requires the Government to make a contribution of 1% of gross national product to the National Pensions Reserve Fund every year. The Minister for Finance stated during the budget that he would call on Mr. Maurice O'Connell, the former secretary general of the Department, to review the situation.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not sound as if it is in order.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Has the Government now decided not to contribute to the National Pensions Reserve Fund?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is another way of raising that matter.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That may require amending legislation and, if so, when will the legislation be tabled?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will short-circuit the question for the Deputy. Is the legislation promised?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The statement last Sunday referred to the prospects of amending that Bill next year.
I conclude by wishing all Members of the House a happy Christmas. I hope everyone enjoys the break. I wish the Ceann Comhairle, his staff, the Superintendent, the Captain and all the staff of the Houses of the Oireachtas a very happy Christmas and I thank them for their courtesy.