Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the anticipated savings that will be made in terms of salaries and other costs arising from the budget 2009 announcement of the rationalisation of State agencies for which his Department is responsible; the reason for the reduction of 24% in the budget of the Irish Human Rights Commission and 43% in that of the Equality Authority; if his attention has been drawn to the concerns expressed by both bodies regarding the consequences of the reductions; if he will ensure that both bodies have adequate funds to discharge their statutory duties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40459/08]

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the way the Irish Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority will continue to function effectively in view of the fact that their budgets have been cut by 43% and 24% respectively; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40457/08]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 3 together.

The context in which financial provision has been made by the Government for the Irish Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority for 2009 was outlined in the Budget Statement of 14 October last. While I accept the reduced budgets will cause difficulties in both cases, sufficient funding has been provided to the bodies to enable them to discharge their core activities in 2009. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is available to assist the organisations in every practical way that is possible. I am willing to meet representatives of the bodies to discuss the implications of the budget for their operations. I remind Deputies that the 2009 provision for the Equality Tribunal, which adjudicates on individual claims of inequality, has been increased by €340,000, or 15%, to reflect the priority that should be given to people who have a grievance in this respect. As I indicated in my contribution to the budget debate, I have decided that the main priority in the justice area in 2009 will be to tackle crime. My funding decisions reflect that priority, with the result that budgets have been reduced significantly in a small number of areas. In line with Government policy, I have asked all bodies to reduce their spending on consultants, advertising, promotional activities and other non-core items significantly.

The Department is examining issues which need to be addressed to achieve efficiencies in the integration of the administrative and back office facilities of the Equality Authority and the Irish Human Rights Commission. These areas, which are likely to include shared information technology and telecommunications facilities as well as office accommodation, are being addressed in the context of the decentralisation to Roscrea of the remaining elements of the Equality Authority. I understand that the two organisations have had discussions to move matters forward. Both agencies operate from separate premises in Dublin city centre. The offices have a cumulative annual rental cost of over €800,000. Significant efficiencies and savings can be realised by both bodies, and possibly by others, if they share office facilities. Further substantial savings of approximately €300,000, or 10% of the authority's budget, will be realised by the completion of the transfer of further Equality Authority staff to Roscrea. I am prepared to agree, at this stage, that any savings made by the bodies in question may be used by them to supplement their budgets in meeting the costs of discharging their core functions. This does not mean there will be an increase in the published budget of either body, or that the savings can be used for advertising or other public relations activities. In other words, I do not propose to use the savings they might make to meet other expenditure requirements across my Vote group.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Why has the Minister decided to kill off the Equality Authority? Can he offer any other example of a 43% budgetary cut that he has made? How does he respond to the view of the board that the authority will not be able to discharge its core functions as a result of what has been done? Can the Minister give me a figure for the savings that will arise from the decision he has taken in respect of the Equality Authority? What is the saving? Is it not the case that the entire saving would not buy Mars bars for all the staff of the authority? The Equality Authority is being singled out in a vindictive manner because officials in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform do not like what it has been doing. Is that not the reason for this measure? How can the Minister refer to two separate offices in Dublin, given that a premises is being sought for a third office in Roscrea? There will be a parallel organisation in Roscrea, matching the organisation in Dublin. The Department has already leased a premises, in which 15 staff are employed. None of the officials in question came from the Equality Authority. This is an act of blatant vindictiveness. If the Minister was not its author, it was his duty to intervene to prevent it from being pursued.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Equality Authority was established in 1997 with an annual budget of €378,000. It now has an annual budget of €5.9 million, although it has been reduced this year. Over its 11 years of existence, the authority has received funding of €47 million. I will comment on the proposed cut. I can give some suggestions. I am not in any way trying to kill off the Equality Authority, which does very good work. As I said earlier, I am not engaging in a post hoc justification of this measure. I decided three months ago to concentrate on prisons and tackling crime. That is what I said.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister sacked the board a year ago.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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When I examined the annual accounts of the Equality Authority last week, I was astounded to see that it is paying an annual rent of €402,000 for its premises on Harcourt Street. If I remember correctly, it spends a further €30,000 or €40,000 on parking. A premises has been rented in Roscrea for €102,000. Twenty staff are already in place at that location, in line with the Government decision on decentralisation. It was decided in this year's budget that any organisation, not just the Equality Authority, that had already rented accommodation in decentralisation locations, as the authority had, would be allowed to continue to use that accommodation. Such organisations do not have to deal with rent increases etc. If the staff of the Equality Authority relocate to Roscrea, the organisation will benefit from a saving of approximately €300,000 in respect of rent alone. Further savings of approximately €22,000 will accrue from the proposed reduction in public relations activity. It is possible for the authority to save €10,000 in consultancy fees. Funds are still being provided to those involved with the 2007 European year of equality. Savings in that regard could yield €320,000. Some €35,000 is spent on the annual anti-racism week. The authority engaged in a costly and controversial once-off anti-ageism campaign. Deputy Shatter raised it in the House with me.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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So what?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The campaign cost €230,000. I have made it clear to the Equality Authority and all other bodies under the aegis of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform that I do not want them to produce any more glossy brochures or reports. Such documents should be made available on a disk. I do not want any more of the fanfare we have seen when reports are launched.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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As a result of these cutbacks, not only will there be no fanfare, but the Equality Authority will have very little ability to pursue its core objectives. The Minister has succeeded in decimating the authority. He did not respond to Deputy Rabbitte's query about why the decentralisation of the authority to Roscrea is being fast-tracked at a time when relocation and decentralisation are being halted all over the place. How can the move to Roscrea be described as an integration of corporate services with the Irish Human Rights Commission? It is a disintegration. How can it be argued that shifting the authority 80 miles down the road will lead to the integration of its services with those of the commission, the offices of which are to be retained in Dublin? How can this be? What is the saving that will result from the move?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I have said what the saving will be.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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None of the 15 staff who is due to transfer to Roscrea worked for the Equality Authority in the first instance. The relocation will lead to problems of experience and expertise. The Minister has destroyed the authority, in effect, in a most vindictive way. He is well aware that a stake is being put through the authority's heart because many of its decisions have embarrassed him and his Government colleagues in recent times.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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There is no embarrassment. We introduced the legislation that set up the authority.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Government set it up and now it is taking it down.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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There is no embarrassment. We are not endeavouring to gut any organisation, not least the Equality Authority. I have justified my decision to do what I have to do. I accept that significant cuts will be imposed on these bodies. I abolished a number of bodies. I decided to focus on some of the more soft issues in the Department to achieve a significant reduction. I repeat that Deputy Flanagan's party wanted greater reductions in the budgets of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and all other Departments. The Fine Gael spokesperson, Deputy Bruton, was calling for it all the time. If we were to implement the cuts the party wanted, we would have had to decimate all the organisations within my Department.

The savings through decentralisation are €440,000 in rent in Dublin and €102,000 in Roscrea. More room is available. The landlord in Roscrea has been helpful and the building is in a beautiful location. I do not accept there is a loss of intelligence. None of us is indispensable and the Equality Authority will be able to function as well in Roscrea as anywhere. This is an insult to Roscrea.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Why did the Minister allow himself to be in the position of humiliating himself in the House giving us answers a four year old would not give? He knows and I know that what he is saying is nonsense. He referred to glossy brochures. Every morning my desk seems like it is covered in confetti because of the number of the glossy brochures with photographs of Minister landing on it. I cannot keep count and sometimes they are in Irish and English in case they do not cost enough.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy does not get many from me.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister said we will not receive any more glossy brochures from the Equality Authority. He has decided to kill off the authority. Will he explain to the House in a mature way how he will save on rent in Dublin by leasing an additional premises in Roscrea? How will he save money by creating a parallel organisation in Tipperary? Is this not a political stunt and a double whammy? He has cut the authority's budget by 43% while pandering to his former ministerial colleague, Michael Smith, by decentralising it to Roscrea. When Mr. Smith left the scene, the Minister responded to Deputy Lowry's representations and in case this was not looked after, he appointed the Deputy's election agent to the board. This is a vindictive stunt to kill off the authority. Why does the Minister not fess up rather than come into the House to tell us about glossy brochures and savings of €20,000 on publication and so on? Who authorised the leasing of premises in Dublin in the first place? The Minister was in Government. He has been walked into this and he ought to retrace his steps.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I reject the assertion that I have given anything other than frank responses. I have also outlined suggestions as to where the Equality Authority can make savings. There will not be a parallel organisation in Roscrea when decentralisation is completed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Of course there will.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The staff are being decentralised to Roscrea. It was not that they alone were identified.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It will not be an Equality Authority.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The decision was made at budget time by the Government that decentralisation could continue where Departments had rented property in locations and had staff resident in them. That is what happened in regard to the Equality Authority and Roscrea. I have asked my officials to tell all the organisations that I do not want a fanfare. It was the case that organisations attached to my Department and others went to great lengths employing the services of public relations and consultancies and in the way in which they portrayed their annual reports.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister should start in his own office.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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We are listening to exhortations of people like the Deputies who criticised us for having all these quangos.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Why is the Minister sitting on the value for money report?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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When we make an effort to rationalise and make savings, the Deputies criticise us.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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We published a list of quangos and gave it to the Minister, who ignored it.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Why is the Minister sitting on the value for money report?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party kept quiet about what it would cut. Deputy Rabbitte sat on the fence. At least Fine Gael came out with its proposed cuts.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Why is the Minister sitting on the value for money report?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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One member of Fine Gael came up with the cuts while the other members decided they would ask for everything. They want it both ways.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The list was the result of a front bench decision.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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This is a shameful decision.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Fine Gael does not give recognition to the fact that the Equality Tribunal is the one body that affects real people.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister has been walked into it.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I have not.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Some 64%, when others take 9%, 8% and 7%.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I only sanctioned this in the full knowledge that I was concentrating on crime.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister put money into it.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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This is a hatchet job.