Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 94: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if she will provide details on the transfer of the Combat Poverty Agency to the Office for Social Inclusion; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [40024/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Government's decision to integrate the Combat Poverty Agency and the Office for Social Inclusion within my Department was informed by the findings of a review of the Combat Poverty Agency which was undertaken on foot of a Government decision on 6 June 2007. The review will be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas today.

I intend through the integration of the Combat Poverty Agency with the Office for Social Inclusion to ensure we make the best use of the considerable experience and expertise of the staff of both bodies. I believe the new division will provide the framework for an enhanced research role that will provide a stronger voice for those affected by poverty and social inclusion issues. Furthermore, it will have more immediate access to advising the Government and influencing policies on these important issues.

The Department is working with the board of the agency in finalising a plan for the smooth integration of the Combat Poverty Agency and the Office for Social Inclusion. It is planned to hold meetings and workshops with the staff in both organisations before the plan is finalised.

Several steps are necessary to achieve the integration of the Combat Poverty Agency and the Office for Social Inclusion. As the Combat Poverty Agency is established under statute, legislation changes will be required to alter its status. I intend bringing forward legislative provisions to effect those changes on Committee Stage of the Social Welfare Bill (Miscellaneous Provisions) 2008. Arrangements regarding the position of the agency staff will be finalised following discussions with the Department of Finance, the staff and their union representatives. Other work will involve winding up the business of the agency including finalising accounts and transferring assets.

I am conscious of the concerns about the need for independent scrutiny of public policy that have been expressed by some interest groups. I agree that independent critique is very important and I intend to ensure the scope for such work continues with the new arrangement. The Combat Poverty Agency has provided a valuable service in highlighting issues of poverty and social inclusion over the last 22 years. However, as the review report notes, the function of independent reporting on poverty is no longer as dependent on the Combat Poverty Agency as it was in earlier years.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Why? Who does it now?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I intend to ask the new division to prioritise the development of procedures to ensure the views of all stakeholders, including people experiencing poverty, continue to be available to Government in developing and monitoring social inclusion strategies.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister's reply raises quite a few questions. It is utterly cynical and disingenuous of the Minister to introduce the proposed amendments on Committee Stage. She knew at least last Wednesday, two days after the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill was published, that she was going to bring in these changes, and I do not see why she could not have published her intentions in the Bill instead. The way in which the abolition of the Combat Poverty Agency has been handled is deplorable.

What does the Minister mean when she says she wants to guarantee that information will be available to Government? The Combat Poverty Agency had a far wider role than that, which included highlighting issues and making information available to the public and to public representatives in a truly democratic way. How will it operate within the Office for Social Inclusion? Will the members of the agency be able to decide for themselves the issues that need to be highlighted? Does the Minister not think it is an unusual decision, in a time of increasing unemployment and in which we have not met our targets in reducing child poverty, to abolish the Combat Poverty Agency? Can she tell us what financial savings will be made from the amalgamation of the agency with the Office for Social Inclusion?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will be aware that the process started in June 2007 with the review of the role of the agency and an examination of how it could be more effective. Although the main impetus was not financial, to answer the Deputy's question, the amount currently spent on the agency is €4.6 million, although some staff will transfer. There are costs with regard to staffing, community projects and so on, but there is much information in the review about how these things should be handled.

I specifically mentioned information for Government because one of the key issues with regard to the Combat Poverty Agency is that its views are taken on board in producing Government policy, legislation and decisions. One of the findings of the review was that the output of the agency was very good but its input was not. It was not effective in ensuring its voice was being heard.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Government did not take its ideas on board.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That was actually in the review.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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So it was the agency's fault the Government ignored it.

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Minister to continue without interruption, please.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The agency has been in existence for 22 years, which was an issue. We must now find a mechanism whereby the views of the whole team of people——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Whereby the Government can muzzle them.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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——can be taken on board in conjunction with those of all the other groups that have emerged since the Combat Poverty Agency was established. All these groups play a valuable role, particularly those in the community and voluntary area, although the community and voluntary pillar was unheard of at the time the agency was set up. The amount of statistical information we get on a national as well as an international level from the CSO, the ESRI, the OECD and the EU——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The ESRI commissions work from the Combat Poverty Agency.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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As does the HSE.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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In fact, it is the other way around.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That is not true.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Quite a substantial amount of work has been commissioned by the Combat Poverty Agency to be carried out by the ESRI.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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It is the other way around.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Of the last 38 policy documents and reports drawn up in the name of the Combat Poverty Agency, 28 were done by outside bodies, while ten were done by the agency itself. There is very good expertise within the agency at research level and other levels. These experts will now be able to avail of the good expertise in the Office for Social Inclusion. By integrating these two bodies, which is the recommendation in the review, we can strengthen their roles.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister filed the report——

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will move on to Questions Nos. 95 and 97.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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A Chathaoirligh, I am entitled to ask a supplementary question.

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry; we are out of time.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The report was commissioned through the Minister's Department——

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Questions Nos. 95 and 97.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The next question deals with it anyway.

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry, Deputy; we were out of time.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Acting Chairman let the Minister go on.