Dáil debates

Wednesday, 8 October 2008

Ceisteanna — Questions

Official Engagements.

11:00 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to Cardiff; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21736/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting in Cardiff with the Welsh First Minister, Mr. Morgan; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21737/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach when the next meeting of the British-Irish Council will be held; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29619/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his attendance at the meeting of the British-Irish Council on 26 September 2008. [31952/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent British-Irish Council meeting in Scotland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33358/08]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together.

On 24 May 2008, I travelled to Cardiff to meet with the First Minister of Wales, Mr. Rhodri Morgan. I was accompanied by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, and the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy Martin Cullen. The meeting was an excellent opportunity to build on our bilateral relationship as Ireland and Wales share many economic, cultural and social areas of interest, including the promotion of the Irish and Welsh languages. I briefed the First Minister on political developments in Northern Ireland and we discussed economic issues and the important role education can play for future prosperity. We also discussed efforts to encourage students to study science and engineering.

I attended the 11th British-Irish Council summit hosted by the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, in Edinburgh on 26 September. The summit was attended by representatives of all members of the council, including the Northern Ireland Executive. I was accompanied by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan and Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Pat Carey.

The council is a valuable forum to exchange information and discuss issues of mutual interest. At the summit on 26 September, we discussed the current global economic position, as well as demography and energy issues. The council agreed to adopt an early years policy work stream, with Wales leading. We were also updated on the strategic review of the council and mandated the secretariat to continue its work with a view to presenting final proposals for consideration at the next summit in Wales next February.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know the Taoiseach is a sporting man. He is quite entitled to go to the Heineken European Rugby Cup final. I found it amusing, to say the least, that the Taoiseach and two Ministers were heading off to Wales for a meeting with Mr. Morgan, the First Minister, on the very day the match was taking place. I would have thought a decent man from Offaly like the Taoiseach would have said he was going to the Heineken cup final and when over there, he was going to meet with the First Minister as well.

It seems to be couched in a way that the Taoiseach would be going to the meeting and, by the way, to the match with the two Ministers. That was not the way to do it. The Taoiseach is entitled to go to a match if he so wishes. I thought this was not the way to present his case.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Unless the Deputy believes they discussed the match, that question is not in order.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We will not discuss the match.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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What was the score?

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It is not about the match.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If the Ceann Comhairle wishes to add that advice——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Come on, Deputy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When the Taoiseach came back the following day, whatever happened in Cardiff, he said this party would need to crank up its campaign for the Lisbon treaty, which did not go down too well at the time with supporters around the country.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Move on to the question please.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What were the issues discussed by the Taoiseach and Mr. Morgan and has there been any progress on those issues since?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As Deputy Kenny has stated, I took the opportunity on going to the match to meet with Mr. Rhodri Morgan. That is obvious.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It was couched the other way — that the Taoiseach was to meet Mr. Morgan and would go to the match on the way.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It was not couched a different way.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Never mind the match.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not couched any way. It is a question of——

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is entitled to go.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Of course I am entitled to go. I will not ask the Deputy's permission either, by the way. The Deputy should not worry about it.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We need not think about the match.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We can all play the old smart ass game.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach need not take that attitude.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not taking an attitude. That is the Deputy's attitude.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach indicated he went to meet Mr. Morgan and would go to the match. He went to Wales because the match was on.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The question is about the meeting with Mr. Morgan.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I get questions and read out replies. If the Deputy asks a supplementary question I can clarify the position. It is not a big deal. The bottom line is I met Mr. Rhodri Morgan on a number of occasions. In fact I brought him to a match in Lansdowne Road two years ago.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Good.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Would the meeting have taken place if there was no match?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Never mind the match.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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When he came to Lansdowne Road he took the opportunity of paying the courtesy of calling to see me and I did the same when I went there. It is not a big deal.

We discussed various issues about Wales and Ireland, our bilateral relationship, promotion of the Irish and Welsh languages and his interest in education. He has a very good knowledge of the country, as the Deputy knows, and has visited here on many occasions with his good wife. He knows the place well and is a very engaging individual and nice gentleman.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are several facts made clear by that reply. The first is the Taoiseach was in Wales, the second is he went to the match and the third is that he met Mr. Morgan. He is entitled to.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Deputy have a question?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I wonder would the meeting have taken place on that date if the match was not on. The Taoiseach does not need my permission or that of anybody else to go, if he wishes.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Thanks.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy need not mind that issue.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach does not need to come down heavy on us from that point of view.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do not mind that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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With regard to the Omagh bombing, new evidence has emerged which suggests the electronic intelligence agency in Britain, the GCHQ, monitored exchanges between the bombers on the day in question. It is also believed that at a meeting of the Home Office a year later chaired by the head of MI5, there may well have been discussion of the early use of intercepted calls to prosecute the persons involved which may well have prevented that bombing.

A recent programme the Taoiseach will be aware of in the "Panorama" series brought this new evidence to light. It also stated the biggest complication facing the Criminal Investigation Department, or CID, in what was then the RUC was that although the bombing was committed in its jurisdiction, some 80% of the suspects lived in the Irish Republic, thus falling under the jurisdiction of An Garda Síochána. Despite assurances from both Governments that the police forces were co-operating, there were in reality two separate and parallel inquiries. As the Taoiseach is aware, the British Prime Minister has ordered a review of the intercepted intelligence material.

Arising from this, has the Taoiseach been in touch with the British authorities about this new information? Does he agree with the report that there were weaknesses in the investigation and are there any changes consequential to this meaning a renewed co-operation on the investigation might come about? I say this against the background of the possibility that the tragedy of Omagh and the loss of life felt so deeply by the entire community, particularly the families involved, may not have occurred if the intercepted calls had been acted upon.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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While I am not sure the Deputy's questions relate to Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, the Taoiseach may choose to be helpful by replying.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The questions relate to a meeting in Cardiff and a meeting of the British-Irish Council in Edinburgh. I do not have information in supplementary form on the issues the Deputy raises, which are matters best dealt with by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is a complete cop-out.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, it is not.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach discussed matters related to Ireland at the British-Irish Council meeting.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In the context of the British-Irish Council, what is the Taoiseach's state of knowledge about the current operation of the Northern Ireland Executive? We know the Executive has not met since June and that its working arrangements do not appear to be particularly good.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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As the Deputy's question extends far beyond the brief of the questions before us, the Taoiseach cannot be expected to reply.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Was the issue of the Northern Ireland Executive discussed at the British-Irish Council meeting?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No, internal matters of the jurisdictions represented at the British-Irish Council are not the subject of discussion. Discussions take place on matters of common concern based on a set agenda. The next of set of questions will provide an opportunity to raise these matters.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I will be brief as I would like to move on to the next set of questions. Will the Taoiseach quickly and in summary give the House a sense of the issues addressed at the British-Irish Council meeting in which he was a direct participant?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I indicated, the Council exchanged information and discussed issues related to the current global economic position, as well as demographic and energy issues. The question of the extent to which we can develop offshore energy infrastructure between Northern Ireland and Scotland, with the possible involvement of other jurisdictions, arose on the energy side. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, attended the meeting.

On the issue of demographics and its impact on social policy, a general discussion took place on the demographic position in each jurisdiction and what was being done to try to deal with impending demographic change and its impact on public policy generally. The economic situation was discussed in terms of ongoing events around the world and how they were affecting the individual jurisdictions represented at the forum.

It was also suggested Wales take on a work stream on policies it was proposing on early years development and how other countries could learn from them. Child protection issues were also discussed and representatives of the Isle of Man indicated that a particular issue arose in their jurisdiction and that they were anxious to set out their position. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister also discussed that topic from a Northern Ireland perspective.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Was the issue of Sellafield or the United Kingdom's plans to ramp up its production of nuclear energy discussed at the British-Irish Council?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I was late in attending the meeting but do not believe these issues were raised in the discussion led by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It was not raised by the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is surprising.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It was not part of the agenda.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the US President, Mr. George W. Bush, in Belfast on 16 June 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24259/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Gordon Brown, in Belfast on 16 June 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24260/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting in Belfast on 16 June 2008 with the President of the United States, Mr. George Bush. [25413/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting with Prime Minister Gordon Brown in Belfast on 16 June 2008. [25414/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meetings with Northern Ireland political leaders during his visit to Belfast on 16 June 2008. [25415/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29452/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29453/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29454/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29455/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach when the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation will next meet; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29460/08]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 16: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meetings with political leaders in Belfast on 16 June 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29498/08]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 17: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with US President, Mr. George Bush, in Belfast on 16 June 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29526/08]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 18: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Gordon Brown, in the context of the ongoing implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29527/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 19: To ask the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with the political parties in Northern Ireland since 10 July 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29617/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 20: To ask the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with the British Government in regard to Northern Ireland since 10 July 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29618/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 21: To ask the Taoiseach his views on the continued failure of the Northern Ireland Executive to meet; if he has raised this issue with the British Prime Minister or the political leaders in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30954/08]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 21, inclusive, together.

The visit of President George Bush to Northern Ireland in June as part of his European tour was an opportunity for the Irish, British and United States Governments to meet the political parties to discuss a range of political and economic issues. When President Bush, Prime Minister Brown and I met First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, we expressed our strong support for the work of the Executive and stressed the need to move forward on the critical issue of policing and justice. I met Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness again in Omagh on 15 August and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, met Secretary of State Shaun Woodward on Thursday, 18 September.

On 3 September the Governments published the 19th report of the Independent Monitoring Commission which provided clarity on the status of the Provisional IRA. The Government welcomed the very positive report and I thank the IMC for its hard work in preparing it and its continuing contribution to the peace process. Following on from the decommissioning of its weapons, the IRA has now completely stood down the structures which engaged in its armed campaign.

I met the First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness together with their ministerial colleagues at the British-Irish Council summit hosted by the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, in Edinburgh on Friday, 26 September. I spoke again on the telephone with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister last week.

The Government is disappointed that the Executive did not meet on Thursday, 2 October and that this led to the postponement of the scheduled plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council last Friday. Our agenda for North-South co-operation is important for all of the people and business on the island. The North-South Ministerial Council is a vital institution of the Good Friday Agreement and its work must continue.

While there are a range of difficult issues to address, I hope the current issues of disagreement within the Executive can be resolved, as the First Minister and Deputy First Minister indicated last week at their joint appearance at Stormont. We remain in close contact with the British Government and parties in the Northern Ireland Executive and will continue to offer support in resolving these difficulties.

We want the Executive and all the institutions working in the best way possible for the people of Northern Ireland. That is the only way forward. All of the commitments in the St. Andrews Agreement have been implemented, except the devolution of policing and justice. This remains the central outstanding issue. It is the view of both the Irish and British Governments that the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly should take on this responsibility. I spoke to Prime Minister Gordon Brown in advance of his visit to Northern Ireland on Tuesday, 16 September and again last week. I welcome his encouragement of the parties to resolve this matter and expect to meet him again shortly.

The Executive has had impressive achievements — an agreed programme for government and budget and investment strategy provide a sound basis for progress. The continuing message that Northern Ireland is open for business and that devolution is working will be vital for the success of the Northern Ireland economy which faces the same uncertainty and risks as other economies face. It is important that the Executive gets down to business to address the difficult challenges ahead.

With the restoration of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland in 2007, there are no current proposals to reconvene the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. While the forum has played a role in the past, I do not expect further meetings in the current circumstances.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I apologise if I was out of order in asking an earlier question which may not have been relevant to the British-Irish Council meeting in Scotland. I hope it is now relevant to the Northern Ireland situation. As the "Panorama" programme explained, there is evidence that the United Kingdom's electronic surveillance intelligence service intercepted calls between the Omagh bombers before the bomb exploded. Apparently, the matter was discussed in the Home Office at a meeting chaired by the head of MI5. Does the Taoiseach have a view on this matter and has he contacted the British authorities about it? What, if any, changes have been implemented in order that renewed co-operation can take place in the investigation of the Omagh bombing?

Arising from the Taoiseach's comments in respect of the Northern Ireland Assembly, as I have previously pointed out, the army council of the IRA continues to exist. While others hold a different view, it is my view that the council is no longer required. What is the Taoiseach's view? Should the Assembly get on with the business for which it was elected, despite the existence, albeit inactive, of the army council?

In April this year the Taoiseach and First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson, announced that firms operating in the IFSC could establish offices in Northern Ireland to help them cope with the current skills deficit in the South. Analysts suggested the initiative had the potential to create between 3,000 and 5,000 well paid jobs in Northern Ireland, which would enjoy higher tax receipts through job creation. Will the Taoiseach provide a progress report on the issue? How many, if any, meetings have taken place about the initiative since April? Does the Taoiseach know how many jobs have been created? What Exchequer gain, if any, has Northern Ireland achieved so far from the announcement he made? Has this had an impact on the Exchequer receipts of the Government here?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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In regard to the Deputy's first matter, again, as I said, issues involving intelligence and security are dealt with by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in terms of his ongoing contact with his counterparts across the water. I understand that various assertions or contentions were made in a television programme which are being followed up on the British side. As soon as that is done, I am sure the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform can speak to his counterpart about it and ascertain if it has brought to light anything of significance beyond what we know already. I know this is a continuing difficulty for the families and a very difficult situation. We will continue to work constructively to assist in whatever way we can on those matters.

On the question of the IRA standing down the army council, as I understand it, the IMC brought forward a very positive report in this respect, confirming that this is the case. The de facto position is that there is no activity going on from that source in respect of planning armed campaigns or being involved in organising anything that would be against the spirit or letter of the Agreement. It is important that we accept the IMC reports as they are provided to us as a continuing contribution to the peace process. That allied to the decommissioning of weapons is a very solid indication of the irreversible path that has now been taken. That should be accepted and we should move on.

On the question of the initiative with Peter Robinson, that is a matter for the private sector to take up should it so wish. What I was simply doing was showing the ability of North and South to co-operate together in an area where there could be mutual benefit. It is not a matter I monitor on a monthly, weekly or bimonthly basis; it is simply a positive indication to the people on both sides of the Border that it is possible to devise strategies and common approaches which address issues from our and their points of view. There is a need for us to continue to explore and exploit across a whole range of public policy how we can demonstrate to our constituents on both sides of the Border that this is possible, doable and that there is a political will to get on with it.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I share with the Taoiseach the hope that the efforts being made to get the Northern Ireland Executive meeting again will succeed. It is disappointing it has not met for quite some time. Is the Taoiseach optimistic that meetings of it will resume in the near future?

With regard to the Omagh bombing, what was contained in the "Panorama" programme was extremely serious. Apparently GCHQ was in possession of information which, if it had been passed on in time to the RUC, could possibly have prevented the Omagh bombing and certainly would have led to the detection of those responsible for it. Do I understand from what the Taoiseach said that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will follow this up with the British authorities? Do I understand then that the contents of that programme have not yet been followed up with the British authorities?

What is the Taoiseach's attitude to the recommendation made jointly by the Irish Human Rights Commission and the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission in early 2007 that a judge of international standing should be appointed by both Governments to review the available information about that bombing and the state of knowledge of the security services both on this island and on the neighbouring island in regard to it? Will the Government pursue that idea with the British Government to have a review conducted by a judge of international standing of the available information on it?

In respect of the North-South parliamentary forum that has been talked about for some time, what progress has been made to establish it?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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In regard to the first matter raised by the Deputy, one must continue to be hopeful that we can overcome the difficulties that have arisen and we will continue to work to see if they can be resolved. It has been disappointing that has not been the case thus far. The deferral or postponement of Executive meetings is not a good practice in terms of developing relationships and trust. It has been disappointing that it has not been possible to overcome the problems that exist.

Looking back on the St. Andrews Agreement, it is important to point out that it was the view of the Taoiseach and Prime Minister at the time that, were we able to fulfil all the issues set out in that Agreement, it should constitute the conditions necessary to enable us to proceed to the devolution of policing in Northern Ireland. My understanding from all sides is that while everyone is committed to that, the ability to set out an indicative timeline in which that might occur has not been possible to achieve on a consensual basis within the Executive. The question of there being sufficient public support to enable that to happen is an issue that remains in the background before the decision seems to be capable of being taken. It is important that every effort be made to reinforce the point that, from opinion polls of which I am aware and from my knowledge of the situation on the ground, there is not a principled objection among any notable swathe of public opinion in Northern Ireland to this happening.

However, there is a need, at the political level, to try to find a framework in which it would be possible for everyone to proceed, with the satisfaction of all that this has full, wide and cross-community support contemporaneously with moving on the issue, so that we can get to the devolution position more quickly than would otherwise be the case. It seems that is the best means by which we could try to encourage people to move on this issue more quickly than they feel is available at the moment. It is a difficult question, one that we need to try to resolve and that we are prepared to work with the parties to try to resolve as quickly as possible. The wider impact it has on the fact that the Executive is not meeting is also exacerbating the problem and magnifying the issues under discussion.

In regard to the question of the television programme, that matter is being reviewed by the British Administration as to its veracity or whatever in terms of whether it had the impact that it was suggested it would have had in the television programme. The only point I would make is that, for the purpose of accuracy, it would be best to table a question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform as to precisely what is the current position. I have not discussed it with him since then.

On the question of what the various Human Rights Commissions are proposing, there is the issue that some of this is still before the courts in terms of, as I understand it, the prosecution that is being taken. There is also the whole question of a civil action being taken by the parents of the victims in this appalling atrocity. Trying to uncover the truth is important for the parents, some of whom I met. However, it is also a question of trying to find the best way to do that. Encouraging more people to review and oversee various aspects of this matter has not provided a remedy or led to those involved being satisfied about getting to the nub of the issue. There are legal and other background issues which are not easy to sort out.

The ombudsman examined the matter and there has been a great deal of detailed investigation into it. A recent television programme highlighted the issue and the British Administration is examining that. We will continue to assist in whatever way we can in trying to get those responsible for this atrocity before the courts and in ensuring, if possible, that they are successfully prosecuted. As the Deputy is aware, legal moves are continuing in the background.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I take this opportunity to offer an expression of sympathy to the Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, who is attending the funeral of his mother, Mrs. Peggy McGuinness, this morning. Go ndéanfaidh Dia trócaire ar a h-anam.

Will the Taoiseach acknowledge and accept that Sinn Féin is totally committed to partnership Government and to full participation in the Northern Ireland Executive, the North-South Ministerial Council and the various other committees and cross-Border institutions that have been established under the provisions of the British-Irish Agreement? Does he accept that the current difficulties — we all hope these will be overcome as quickly as possible — are attributable to the fact that one of the participant parties at the Northern Ireland Assembly is refusing to agree executive agendas? Does the Taoiseach agree that certain issues are long overdue for address and that these were to have been dealt with in the context of the British-Irish Agreement and that the matters discussed in the course of negotiations on the St. Andrews Agreement, including the transfer of policing and justice powers from London to Belfast, must be delivered upon? Does he accept that several months have passed since the stated date, namely, May of this year, for the implementation of that decision?

Does the Taoiseach accept that partnership requires agreement on the part of all the principal parties in order that progress might be made and that in refusing to act in partnership, the DUP is causing the current difficulties? I assure him that my party will continue to work to overcome this impasse. What efforts will the Taoiseach and the Government make to encourage the development of forward momentum on this matter and the acceptance of partnership? Does the Taoiseach agree that this matter involves more than policing and justice, Acht na Gaeilge or any other issue and that it relates to the acceptance of partnership? The absence of the latter is the real cause of the current difficulties.

Has the Taoiseach been briefed on the campaign organised by the families of those killed in the Ballymurphy area by the British Army's parachute regiment in August 1971? What steps does he intend to take in the context of raising this matter with the British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, in a way that would be supportive of the families' request for a full, independent inquiry into the deaths of their loved ones and of a local priest in 1971? When the Taoiseach met Mr. Brown, did he receive a report regarding negotiations between the British Government and representatives of the Unionist paramilitaries — the Ulster Political Research Group — on the issue of weapons? He addressed this matter earlier in the context of his acknowledgement of the IRA's action in this regard. Has the Taoiseach been given an insight into contacts between the British Government and the Ulster Political Research Group on the important issue of weapons held by Unionist paramilitaries? Will he acknowledge the British Government's role in having this matter satisfactorily resolved, that is, ensuring the weapons to which I refer are completely taken out of the equation? The British are best placed in this regard because they were responsible for providing many of those weapons in the first instance.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I join Deputy Ó Caoláin in offering my sympathy to Martin McGuinness and the other members of his family on the death of their mother. I did so personally yesterday in any event.

I accept that Sinn Féin is committed to partnership. It is important that we get everyone around the table in a working relationship. It is correct that certain issues are long overdue for resolution and that partnership requires agreement. We will do anything we can to assist in that regard. Ultimately, however, people in the Northern Ireland Executive must work together. A solution cannot only be imposed from outside, it must also come from within.

In attempting to resolve the problem, there might be some benefit in trying to encourage people to work together in order to confirm that there is cross-community support for this issue. I accept that the conditions necessary to facilitate this happening are, for many people and in many respects, already in place. I am not arguing about that but we must encourage everyone to agree to the proposal. In some respects it is better to test the response from the other side by engaging to see if a way can be found through this on the basis of building confidence on a cross-community basis for this process, while confirming that there is no question of not moving ahead with a devolution process. If people can reach an accommodation in respect of this idea, progress can and should be made.

The detail of how this will work must be agreed, and there is some work and discussion to take place in that regard. It should be possible to arrange for this in parallel. People can say that the date when all of this should have happened has passed. It is a case of trying to find a via media, even in circumstances where people are inquiring as to what the discussion involves at this stage. It would be important that we establish the partnership necessary to make the entire Northern Ireland Executive work. The Executive has major potential in the context of working well for all the people across a range of issues. We have hit an impasse in respect of this important issue. I do not for a moment suggest this is not an important issue. This is a critical issue and is one in respect of which many steps have been taken. Sinn Féin has shown leadership on this question, and that is to be acknowledged.

Even allowing for the effort on Sinn Féin's part, there is a need to try to find a way forward rather than feeling we can go no further at this stage. The disagreement relating to this matter is affecting everything else and there are potential consequences which everyone should try to avoid. We will continue to work to see if there is a way round it. In the end, an agreement must be made face to face by the parties concerned with regard to how to move this forward. I regret we are in the position we are now in and I would rather we were not in it. Arguments can be put forward as to why this should be behind us at this stage, but, at the same time, we should be able to find some process that will provide us with the outcome required on the basis that it is a critical issue. There is no objection to that in principle; it is just a question of finding a narrative with which everyone can live as we proceed and get to that point. I do not believe it need be a point in time that is way out in the future.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There were two other matters.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Foreign Affairs will handle the issue regarding the group the Deputy mentioned, but I have not discussed it with him. With regard to the loyalist paramilitaries, I will discuss this issue with the Minister on another occasion. I have not done so yet.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In the context of British-Irish relations, will the Taoiseach confirm representations have been made to him regarding a proposal by the Government to merge or dilute the status of the Human Rights Commission here? Having regard to the specific mandate given to that body under the British-Irish Agreement and to the fact that it specifically states that the commission should mirror the legislation and mandate of its sister body in Northern Ireland, does the Taoiseach consider such a proposed merger and dilution to be detrimental to the letter of the Good Friday Agreement?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not sure that issue is relevant to these questions.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The substance of the work is what is important. I do not have any views one way or the other with regard to what organisational format should be provided. Generally speaking, the party opposite would be of the view we should, where possible, try to increase the level of responsibility of some of these organisations and see whether we can pull them together. On the point made by Deputy Flanagan regarding the Good Friday Agreement, no re-organisation should in any way take away from the confidence that has been built up in these organisations in respect of the human rights work they are doing. We are cognisant of what the Deputy suggests, but we must try to see if both objectives can be met.