Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Question 73: To ask the Minister for Defence the age profile of the Defence Forces; the way the age profile compares to those of other EU armies; if he will increase the retirement ages of officers and other ranks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25985/08]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The age profile of the Permanent Defence Force is presented in a tabular statement which follows. There are no plans at present to extend the retirement age of officers or other personnel in the Defence Forces. The 2000 White Paper on Defence and the earlier Defence Force review implementation plan both identified the requirement to address the high age profile of the Defence Forces. The plan recommended reductions to retirement ages in an effort to address the age profile and fitness of the Defence Forces.

The retirement arrangements for officers and other ranks differ. However, the key element in military life — the need for personnel to maintain a level of fitness for combat readiness — is similar throughout the Defence Forces. This requirement must be balanced with the need to retain experience and expertise, particularly at managerial level. Apart from the overriding requirement of combat readiness, any increase in retirement ages would have cost implications and would affect the career path of personnel further down the ranks. While it would permit some personnel to lengthen their careers, it would act as a disincentive for others whose career aspirations would be diminished.

Very few officers currently retire at age 54 in the rank of captain or age 56 in the rank of commandant. This information will be circulated to Deputies. Officers more commonly retire from the rank of lieutenant colonel at the maximum retirement age for that rank, which is 58. A claim to increase the mandatory retirement age to 60 years for officers serving in ranks up to and including lieutenant colonel was received from the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers under the conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force. The claim has been the subject of correspondence between the Department and the representative association. The Deputy will appreciate that as discussions under the scheme are confidential, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further on the matter at this time.

In the case of enlisted personnel, persons who enlisted in the Permanent Defence Force before 1 January 1994 may be permitted to continue in service up to the age of 60 years. However, the retirement arrangements are different for persons who enlisted on or after 1 January 1994. Enlisted personnel in the rank of private may not automatically continue beyond 12 years' service, and enlisted personnel in the rank of corporal may not serve for more than 21 years. Enlisted personnel in the rank of sergeant may be permitted to continue in service up to the age of 50, while those in higher ranks may continue in service up to the age of 56.

Neither the Defence Forces nor my Department maintains comparative data on the age profiles of other armies within the EU. It should be recognised that the profile of national armies varies considerably between countries in terms of both their make-up and their roles. Consequently, it would not be possible to make a meaningful direct comparison of age profiles with these armies.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister confirm to the House that there are currently more servicemen on pensions than in active service? I saw a statistic to this effect in one of the national newspapers recently. I know the Defence Forces are different, but in all other Departments in the Civil Service the ratio is three active personnel to every one retired person. That is the general ratio across the Civil Service. If the mandatory retirement age was 60 for personnel at officer level, this would redress the balance somewhat. It seems 54 is quite young for a captain to retire. Life expectancy is much higher now than when these retirement ages were set some time ago. In addition, it is obvious that fitness levels among the Army have increased considerably. If we in the House had to retire at 54 we would all, apart from Deputy Collins, be leaving politics at this stage.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy may speak for himself in these matters.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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This is an issue the Minister should consider when preparing the next White Paper. I understand it is currently the subject of talks. I remind the Minister that the mandatory retirement age in Canada is 60 and in Austria it is 65.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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It might not be any harm if Deputy Deenihan's suggestion were taken on board and we were all made to retire at 55.

Deputy Deenihan mentioned there were more people in receipt of Army pensions than there are serving Army personnel. I do not know whether that is the case, although the numbers are close. I will find out for the Deputy. Even if it was the case, however, it would not worry me unduly. People put in their service on the basis that they will get a pension after so many years and when they retire they are entitled to their pensions. Army pensioners tend to be healthy people and have comparatively long lives.

People retire at a younger age in the Army. They have to do so because they need to clear the way for younger people who have reasonable expectations of promotion but do not wish to spend their whole lives waiting to be promoted. In addition, the Army age profile needs to be reasonably low because the role of the Army has changed considerably in recent years. The focus is now on peace support operations abroad. When one considers environments such as Liberia, the Lebanon, the Balkans or Chad, one realises that a certain minimum level of fitness is essential. I remember headlines some years ago, before some of the recommendations in the first White Paper were implemented by my predecessor, former Deputy Michael Smith, in which the Irish Army was dubbed "Dad's Army".

On the question of figures, the average age——

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will allow Deputy Deenihan a brief supplementary question and then the Minister may reply.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The figure reported in the national media was that there are currently 10,378 ex-servicemen and 10,353 active servicemen, which means there are 25 more on pension than in active service. I am not referring to people who want to retire, but if a captain at 54 years wishes to stay on, can that opportunity be granted to him or her? If a captain must retire at 55, while privates retire at 60——

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy's point is made.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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It does not make sense that those commanded by a captain can stay for another five years while he or she must retire.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The average age of officers is 36.67, that of NCOs is 41, and that of privates is 32.49, which seems to be just about right. As I have already indicated to the House, a specific proposal has been made and is currently being discussed. We will see what comes of that.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister give it favourable consideration?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That concludes Priority Questions. We will now move to ordinary questions.