Dáil debates
Tuesday, 1 July 2008
Order of Business
4:00 pm
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 11, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the International Convention against Doping; No. 12, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the agreement on social security between the Government of Ireland and the Government of the Republic of Korea; No. 20, Chemicals Bill 2008 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 1, Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 — Amendments from the Seanad; and No. 21, Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed) to be taken not later than 8.30 p.m. and, the order shall not resume thereafter.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight, that business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m. and that Nos. 11 and 12 be decided without debate. Private Members' business shall be No. 45, motion re fishing industry.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight agreed?
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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No. Last Thursday afternoon, the Minister of State, Deputy Máire Hoctor, misled the House, whether deliberately or not, I do not know. However, she misled the House in response to questions regarding the Hawlbowline site in Cork harbour and the content of that site in terms of toxic and hazardous waste.
I propose an amendment to the Order of Business to provide for an extra 40 minutes after 10 p.m. to allow the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, to correct the record or for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to make a statement on the issue.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I support Deputy Coveney's proposal. Deputies who were in the House last Thursday afternoon will be aware five requests were made to the Ceann Comhairle for a Minister to come into the House to explain what was going on in Ringaskiddy. The quality of the response received was wanting. Questions raised by the community of the harbour area were not answered. I note the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is present in the House. It is urgent and critical that the community is assured, in terms of what is being done by Cork County Council and the Environmental Protection Agency to address what is an obvious health hazard in the Cork Harbour region, that the matter is being dealt with.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Department's remit is to facilitate a thorough investigation of the site and to report to Government thereon to allow for a Government decision on the future use of the site. The Minister will report the outcome of this exercise to Government in the coming months.
In the meantime, a contractor engaged in interim surface clearance works disturbed a quantity of hazardous material on the east tip. In defiance of instructions from the Department the contractor persisted with unauthorised works and it ultimately became necessary to terminate his contract. The Department's instructions, which were endorsed by the Environmental Protection Agency, were designed to prevent any further piecemeal unauthorised works which could have unknown environmental consequences.
The matter is being handled by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The Minister has met with people from the area and has explained to them the situation in terms of the information available. He will report on the matter to Government as soon as the report, in respect of the site which has existed for 30 years, becomes available.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal re the late sitting agreed?
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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We need to have a debate on the matter in the House.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle cannot allow a cover-up like that. The public's health is being affected.
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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There is no regard for the citizens of Cork.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 79 (Dermot Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Seán Ardagh, Bobby Aylward, Joe Behan, Niall Blaney, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Seán Connick, Mary Coughlan, Brian Cowen, John Cregan, Ciarán Cuffe, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Beverley Flynn, Pat Gallagher, Paul Gogarty, John Gormley, Noel Grealish, Mary Hanafin, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Jackie Healy-Rae, Máire Hoctor, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Séamus Kirk, Michael Kitt, Brian Lenihan Jnr, Conor Lenihan, Michael Lowry, Martin Mansergh, Tom McEllistrim, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, M J Nolan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Darragh O'Brien, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Noel O'Flynn, Rory O'Hanlon, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Christy O'Sullivan, Peter Power, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Noel Treacy, Mary Wallace, Mary White, Michael Woods)
Against the motion: 53 (James Bannon, Seán Barrett, Tommy Broughan, Richard Bruton, Ulick Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Joe Carey, Noel Coonan, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Michael D'Arcy, John Deasy, Jimmy Deenihan, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Olwyn Enright, Frank Feighan, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brian Hayes, Brendan Howlin, Paul Kehoe, Enda Kenny, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, Pádraic McCormack, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, Arthur Morgan, Denis Naughten, Dan Neville, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Kieran O'Donnell, Fergus O'Dowd, Jim O'Keeffe, Jan O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Pat Rabbitte, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Alan Shatter, Tom Sheahan, P J Sheehan, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Billy Timmins, Joanna Tuffy, Mary Upton, Leo Varadkar, Jack Wall)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.
Question declared carried.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, it is a long-standing precedent in the House that when a Member misleads the Dáil, whether deliberately or not, he or she is given the next available opportunity to correct the record. I understand it is a judgment call for the Ceann Comhairle. I ask the Ceann Comhairle now to give the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, an opportunity to correct the record on what she said last Thursday.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The position is clear. If Deputy Coveney has a specific allegation to make about any Member of the House, it is open to him to put down a substantive motion and have it dealt with in that way. There are also a number of other ways in which this matter can be raised. If Deputy Coveney wishes to raise a matter, either on the Adjournment or by way of a Private Notice Question——
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have already put down a matter on the Adjournment but it was not accepted.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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——in that event the matter will be considered. Personal statements are a matter for individual Members, who may contact my office.
Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 11 and 12 without debate agreed to? Agreed.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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On a point of order——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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On a point of order——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If it is a point of order, yes. Is it a point of order?
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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There would appear to be an accusation that a Minister has misled the House.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have indicated to Deputy Coveney the way in which that matter must be addressed.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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This is quite a serious allegation.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not a point of order.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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The Minister of State needs to clarify whether this was intentional or unintentional.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have set out the procedure for the House in reply to Deputy Coveney——
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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What the Minister of State said last Thursday afternoon may not have been correct.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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——-and I ask the Deputy to respect that. Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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With respect, this needs to be clarified.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is a serious matter and I would like to take it a little further on the Order of Business, if I may. A number of questions were asked of the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, last week. Deputy Lynch asked whether a notice at Haulbowline indicated that it was safe and Deputy Hoctor replied "I have just explained that there is no notice because there is no health risk". The Taoiseach has responsibility for this matter. The dumped materials at Haulbowline include mercury, lead, chromium 6, zinc and PCBs.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot let Deputy Kenny go into this now.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Coveney and others requested a 40 minute extension of business tonight to allow the Minister, Deputy Gormley, the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, and anyone else to clear this up. I do not want to see people accused of scaremongering over something that is potentially very serious. I am sure the Government does not want people to be so worried that they will call for public inquiries and make claims relating to dumped materials.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is Deputy Kenny asking for asking for additional time to debate this matter?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It would be in everyone's interest if the Taoiseach would respond on this Order of Business by granting extra time to allow the Minister, Deputy Gormley, the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, and anyone else who wishes to contribute to do so. This is a reasonable suggestion. I have another question to ask when this is dealt with.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The difficulty here arises from the fact that the questions on Thursday were addressed to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, who, I understand, was in Cork on Thursday and went fundraising in Kerry later in the day.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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We do not take corporate donations.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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They say they do not take corporate donations.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is one of the most serious environmental problems to have emerged for some time and people living in the vicinity in Cork are concerned by the risks to their health. I understand an independent environmental report was prepared for Cork County Council as far back as 2005. This report was submitted to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government but seems to have been buried.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now and Deputy Gilmore must confine himself to a question on whether there will be a debate.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I support the proposal that there should be additional time this evening for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to provide answers for the people of Cork. If he wishes to do this now I would be very happy.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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A year ago he would have visited the area to look at the issue.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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On the same issue, this afternoon the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government met representatives of the residents in Ringaskiddy.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I have not met them yet; I am meeting them later.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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He did not wish to mislead the House.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Then the Taoiseach misled the House when he said the Minister had met the representatives of the residents.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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In that context, is it not appropriate——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow Deputy Coveney to speak without interruption.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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This is potentially the most serious environmental disaster the Government has had to deal with. People are working only 200 to 300 yds from this site and must face the potential health consequences of dust blowing from it.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into this now.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We in this House have a right to ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to correct incorrect statements made last week on his behalf by a Minister of State who was not adequately briefed. We want a 40 minute debate on this matter and that is not unreasonable.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle presided over this debate last Thursday and many have commented on the quality of the response we received. The Minister could have addressed the issue in this House or he could have gone to Haulbowline and called on the county manager and the CEO of the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, to join him and see what could be done.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I take it the Deputy is raising the question of a debate.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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The Minister is to meet residents this afternoon and I welcome that but he should also tell us in this House what is to happen.
5:00 pm
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Naval Service is located near the relevant area; does the Minister for Defence have a view on this matter? This is an extremely serious issue. I live in the area and have had calls from residents who are very concerned about the high levels of chromium 6 and mercury that have been known for years but covered up. I ask the Taoiseach to publish the reports on this matter immediately so people's fears can be allayed. Will the Minister make a statement in the House this evening on the matter? This is extremely serious, why is it being covered up? Why is the Minister running and hiding?
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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He should make a statement. He is not being a public representative. What is he hiding? People are genuinely afraid and there is a cover-up on this matter. Cancer levels are very high in the harbour area.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I inform Deputy Stanton that I have called on Deputy Creed. When the Ceann Comhairle stands Deputy Stanton must sit.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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So much for the green Minister — he has gone yellow again.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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On the same issue——
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should make a statement and answer questions in the House.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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A Deputy is suggesting this is our fault.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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He is not behaving like a Cork man. He should support the residents
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach and Minister for Defence will be aware that PDFORRA, the representative body for members of the Naval Service working at Haulbowline, has expressed concern about the safety of its members working close to this site. This issue relates to a threat to them, local residents and marine wildlife and is of the utmost importance. The Taoiseach should avail of the opportunity to restore the relevance of this House and facilitate a debate on the matter.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Some people in this House think this is an issue that can be laughed at but it is quite serious. Three reports were carried out on this matter since 2004 and the Minister, though he inherited this problem, has access to them.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I inherited the problem from the Labour Party.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister must explain that comment.
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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The Minister is the ultimate buffoon.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is Deputy Lynch supporting the request for a debate on this?
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Bruton sold it for £1.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The Minister for smugness says he inherited this issue from the Labour Party. I note that the people laughing are not from Cork but they are on the Government back benches and should know better. Will the Minister release the three reports that are in his possession and have been at his Department since 2004? I ask him to discuss the matter in this House with those elected to represent the people involved rather than continue with the stupid carry-on that has prevailed for the past two weeks.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is trying to deal with this situation appropriately. He is meeting residents this evening and will provide the information he has available to him. An adjournment matter on this issue has been accepted in the Seanad and he will speak on it tonight.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Deputies should not laugh at the Seanad.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Taoiseach to finish.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we understand one thing here?
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is "Mighty Mouse" in the Seanad.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Several Deputies have asked for a debate on this issue which has been raised legitimately on the Order of Business.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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There is no point in opening the gates at the weekend if we cannot get answers here today.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have given every Member an opportunity to make points. Some of them have been repetitive. The Taoiseach is attempting to reply to all of the points raised in the context of whether the Order of Business should be amended. I ask that he be allowed to do so, with silence from Deputies.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I said, the Minister, Deputy Gormley, is meeting the residents this evening.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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We have heard that part.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He is open to providing information and giving whatever answers he can, in response to residents' questions, based on the information available. As I said, the action taken by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, in terminating the contract of the contractor involved in unauthorised works, has been endorsed by the Environmental Protection Agency. One would hope people could take confidence from the fact that such an independent agency is in agreement with the Department's actions. The Department is preparing a report on legacy issues which have affected the site since the 1930s and hopes to be in a position to submit to the Government a comprehensive appraisal of the best way of remediating the site. That initiative has been taken by the Minister, rather than by any of his predecessors.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is an awful thing to say about Deputy Roche.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister should be given some credit for seeking to deal with the matter.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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He was forced last week to do something about it.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He will address the concerns raised by the residents of the area by providing whatever information he can at this evening's meeting. The work that will enable us to consider how best to deal with the situation is proceeding.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Why is he not prepared to come in here to answer questions?
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach knows more about——
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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From what is the Minister running away?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let the Taoiseach finish.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach take the questions?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy does not determine the order of the House. He might like to, but he does not. At no stage has the Minister been playing down the issues involved such as the potential hazards if the site is not treated in the proper way. As Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, he is aware of his responsibilities. He will meet the residents this evening to reassure them. In the meantime, perhaps we can arrange for the Whips to see if there is time——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to let the Taoiseach finish.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government orders the business.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If people have genuine concerns, we will try to accommodate them.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will not be told what way we will do it. We will do it on the basis of what is agreed when the Whips sit down and have a sensible discussion. If there is room for a one hour debate in the morning, we will have no problem dealing with the matter. We should deal with it calmly and let the Minister get on with his job as he sees fit.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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That is not what the Taoiseach said half an hour ago.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I understand Deputy Kenny wishes to raise another issue on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Broadcasting Bill 2008 which is before the Seanad is due to be presented in this House at some stage. Will we be given an opportunity to——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Members leaving the Chamber to allow Deputy Kenny to proceed without interruption.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will we have an opportunity to receive the report on cross-ownership in respect of broadcasting?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot hear a thing.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They are a little enthusiastic, a Cheann Comhairle.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Chair should ring the bell.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That should do it.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Bang the bell. The Broadcasting Bill 2008 is due to be presented in this House when the Seanad has finished dealing with it. The Tánaiste received a report yesterday from Mr. Paul Sreenan, SC, on cross-ownership of media outlets and the need for definitions, etc. Will it be possible for the report to be published and made available to Members before the Dáil considers the Broadcasting Bill?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind Members in the lobby that it is not gossips' corner. Deputy Kenny has to be allowed to proceed without interruption.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's colleague is the biggest offender.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We could not get him in last week, but now we cannot get him out.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It might interest the Ceann Comhairle to know that Deputy Healy-Rae and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, are discussing the back end of the Garda station in Caherciveen.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do not mind that. That will take care of itself.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is a need for an extension there.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The children were much better behaved at the weekend.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I asked the Taoiseach about the report on cross-ownership of media outlets which Mr. Sreenan, SC, gave to the Tánaiste yesterday. It is relevant to the Broadcasting Bill which will be considered in this House after it has been discussed in the Seanad. Can I take it that the report will be published as soon as the Government has dealt with it? Will it be published before the Dáil considers the Broadcasting Bill?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is unlikely that such a large report which has just arrived on the Minister's desk and will have to be considered by the Minister, her departmental officials and perhaps her legal advisers will be released in the near future. We will have to decide what the Government will do with it. It is a question of ensuring the Government is informed on these matters. That will take time. I do not think it will be sorted out within the timescale mentioned.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Is the Taoiseach saying the Broadcasting Bill will be brought before the House before it rises for the summer? If not, surely there is plenty of time to consider the report in advance of its publication and the Dáil debate on it.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am being asked to anticipate the Tánaiste's consideration of a report that she received last night. I cannot give any undertaking that it will be published before any broadcasting Bill is considered.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is arguing that it will take time. I am merely pointing out that if the Broadcasting Bill is not brought before the House next week and it looks like it will not, the Tánaiste will have until the end of the summer — the beginning of the next session — to carry out her deliberations and get the report into the public arena. It does not make any sense to withhold it.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That will be a matter for the Tánaiste.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What are the plans for the business of the Dáil next week? What legislation, if any, will be dealt with? What are the arrangements for the debate on the economy? I understand the Government intends to put a motion before the House. Which Minister will introduce that motion? Can the Taoiseach confirm that there will be such a motion?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The motion on the economy will be in the name of the Minister for Finance. The House will also consider the Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008.
Pat Carey (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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There will be ordinary business, including questions, etc.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Can we have a debate on the revelation than an archaeologist's report was changed by the National Roads Authority before the report on the N3 was submitted to the Minister for Transport? If it were the case that the archaeologist's findings were completely disrupted by NRA officials, it would be a serious matter.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is not even a chance that the Deputy's question is remotely approaching being in order.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am only asking for a debate.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I know, but I have to say no.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Chief Whip say whether there will be a debate on the matter?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not a winner.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I know it is, but the Deputy cannot get into it now.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He should take a new route.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Hundreds of disabled children in my constituency and throughout the country are being sent home from school and told not to come back in September.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot go into that matter now.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Chair may not go into it, but I intend to do so.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can do so in a different way.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I am about to get to the question.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can table an Adjournment debate matter if she wishes.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is wrong that the children in question will be deprived of a service this September.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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They have been told to go home and stay there. The HSE has seen fit to use the money needed for the palliative care of disabled children to prop up its own inefficiencies.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on relevant legislation?
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I find it bizarre and indefensible that the Government has decided to target its cutbacks on dying and disabled children.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter now.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Will a Supplementary Estimate be introduced to fund these services? Will the Minister for Health and Children take action before the Dáil rises for the summer?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter now.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Will she reassure the parents of the children in question that their children will receive services in September?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is another way of raising the matter.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is wrong to allow these cutbacks to happen.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is wrong that they should be the first to be targeted.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If Deputy Mitchell attempts to raise the matter on the Adjournment, it will be looked on favourably.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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When will the promised animal welfare Bill be published? Can the Taoiseach assure the House that traditional country pursuits such as hunting, fishing and shooting will not be threatened by the Green Party agenda in the context of that legislation?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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I would like to raise a second matter. Can the Ceann Comhairle give details of the progress made with the establishment of structures of accountability? His office undertook to investigate the development of non-elected quangos such as the NRA which are not accountable to the House.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter now.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Structures should be in place to provide answers to questions such as that asked by Deputy Morgan about an NRA issue.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach on the legislation.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Has any progress been made, a Cheann Comhairle?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot go into that matter now.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The animal welfare Bill is the subject of public consultation. Deputy Creed can articulate his views at that forum.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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When is it expected that the Bill will be published?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We will see how long the public consultation process which is the first phase takes.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Will the Bill be published in 2008?
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two matters. I asked last week whether the proposed health information Bill would give the Health Information and Quality Authority the teeth to enforce standards in hospitals, especially in the context of the €500 million litigation coming down the line.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot get into the contents of legislation.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Does that Taoiseach accept that if we continue to ignore the situation at Haulbowline, we will be looking at medical and legal claims worth billions of euro?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Taoiseach to confine his response to the legislation.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I would like to raise a second matter.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I hope it has to do with a second Bill.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Given that over 40% of dentists no longer participate in the general medical service scheme, when does the Government intend to introduce the dental Bill? Are there any plans to address this situation in the Bill?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The health information Bill will be introduced next year. There is no date for the dental Bill.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In view of the likely impact of the economic downturn on home owners, when will the building societies (amendment) Bill be brought before the House in order to get an opinion from Government backbenchers who might have an interest in the issue?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have another question. The electricity (transfer of transmission assets) Bill has been vaguely promised, with a long list of proposed legislation. Is it intended to bring it before the House soon? There is a need to give clarity to the issues encompassed with a view to restoring confidence in the sector.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Last Thursday the Tánaiste said there was no date fixed for publication of the Bill.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no maybe about it. The Deputy has received a reply.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste spoke last Thursday. I am interested to hear what the Taoiseach has to say today. The Bill will take considerable time to complete and is very important. It refers to the separation———
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Burton.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What is the position on the Law Reform Commission report on management companies? The report produced a prototype Bill for the organisation of owner-managed companies. The Taoiseach said on previous occasions that there was an interdepartmental high level committee of Ministers working on the issue. There are tens of thousands of young people, many facing negative equity——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter now.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——paying heavy rip-off management company charges——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has said that before. We cannot go into the matter now.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There is also a report from the National Consumer Agency. Can the Taoiseach give the House an indication of his thinking on the matter? The Law Reform Commission has actually attached a prototype Bill for the governance of owner-managed companies. Does the Taoiseach intend to use that Bill? I have a second question if the Taoiseach would answer the first one.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask both of them now because we are trying to take things in order.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I refer to the debate next week on the economy and the national development plan. I have asked about this issue on previous occasions. What information will be supplied to the Opposition? There will be a press conference tomorrow for the media but there is nothing for the Opposition. I wish to know, in particular, about elements of the national development plan such as the public private partnerships included, many of which are now in a parlous financial state.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter now.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am sorry. For us to do our business, it is not just a matter of coming in here and second-guessing——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot allow a speech on the matter now, as the Deputy understands.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We are entitled to some level of co-operation from the Minister for Finance regarding this important debate.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will move on. The Taoiseach will speak on the legislation, the management companies Bill.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill has been dealt with by the interdepartmental committee which has not yet come back with a solution to the problem, although I understand it met again recently. The Exchequer returns will be published tomorrow in keeping with normal practice. The Department of Finance team will answer whatever questions the media have for it. That will be——
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I wish to know if it will answer our questions.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is not the normal practice, as the Deputy knows.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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How do we get answers to questions? The Minister very rarely comes in to the House.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We agreed some weeks ago to extend the sittings of the House to accommodate the debate. The Minister for Finance will come to the House and it will be an opportunity for everybody to discuss the situation based on the information and range of data that will be available, from the Exchequer returns, the Central Bank's quarterly bulletin and CSO reports. The Government will make its decision on the basis of those figures. We have heard enough criticism of us for not coming to the House but we will be in the Chamber next week to set out the position according to the Minister for Finance. That is what the people expect.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it include information on proposed public private partnerships? Will it include information from the National Treasury Management Agency and the Central Bank on the financial stability of many of those——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for the debate. The Deputy cannot monopolise the Order of Business in this fashion. It is not fair to other Deputies.
Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Social and Family Affairs was first out of the traps yesterday before the Exchequer returns have even been published to tell us what we knew, that in the current climate——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?
Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I do. The Minister said there would be no budgetary cuts in her Department. Can the Taoiseach confirm if, in addition, the programme for Government commitments made in respect of that Department will be fulfilled?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot allow that question.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputies know why.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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When we come back in October, will there be a package of real Dáil reform available to us?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter now either. We shall move on.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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It is a legitimate question.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Dáil reform is a matter for all parties in the House and the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. The Chief Whip, having taken up that position in recent weeks, will obviously consider what ideas are current. It is important to point out that Dáil reform must be about improving the workings of the House, not trying to find ways in which——
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach knows it is not about that.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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——the House can continue with theatrics or engage in them unnecessarily and beyond its dignity.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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We published proposals. The Taoiseach should give us a suite of options.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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This matters if we are interested in Dáil reform but Dáil reform is usually a code for how we can continue the tennis match that takes place here every day.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If we are interested in proper Dáil reform, let us talk about the issue and have a proper discussion. I would have no problem with that.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know that is what the Deputy meant and that is why I answered him on the same subject.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know the Deputy's party has proposals on reform but there must be all-party agreement.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is enough tennis at Wimbledon.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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According to what the Taoiseach said, the Estimates for 2009 will provide for several cutbacks and, presumably, some increases. He told the Opposition that he would welcome an input and constructive suggestions on how money should be spent. Will he change the Estimates procedure in order that this can happen? Otherwise what will happen is that the Government will come with its list of cutbacks on budget day——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter now.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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It will all happen in one day and there will be no serious examination——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not part of the scrutiny process. The Deputy should table a motion on the matter.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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It is a valid question.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I believe it is. It is about the way we order our business. If asking about the presentation of Estimates is not appropriate to the Order of Business, I cannot think of what might be in order. We debate them every year.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is open to all Oireachtas committees, as the Deputy knows, to go through the Estimates in detail. We brought forward the annual statement in order that people would be able to see that we had done what we said we would do, and learn that targets were reached, or exceeded. There is a great opportunity in the committee system, based on the budgetary reforms we have already introduced, for Members who wish to do so to become involved in the discussion.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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That is proper Dáil reform.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is open to the committees to use the Estimates——
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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It is not. I have tried and it is not possible. If we could look at the information in the documents——
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy obviously has a view on the matter and does not wish to hear mine.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Are the shirts on our backs likely to be under threat from Government cutbacks and stealth taxes? It is now more important than ever that we protect whatever little we have. When can we expect the criminal law (defence of life and property) Bill?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know what that has to do with the shirt on the Deputy's back.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill will go through the Houses later this year.