Dáil debates

Thursday, 26 June 2008

5:00 pm

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

For many years, I have been campaigning for a dedicated law centre for Carlow run by the Free Legal Aid Board. I welcome this opportunity to raise this important matter on behalf of the people of Carlow who need this service.

The Legal Aid Board does a great deal of important work. The many legal letters and negotiations it deals with for people are invaluable. It provides legal advice, representations and services for those applying for asylum and it provides research for all organisations involved in the asylum process. We are aware of the demand for legal aid in family law cases is increasing — it increased by 7% last year — in areas such as divorce, separation and child care cases. The 17,500 people who were provided with services in 2006 and the 3,700 people who contacted the board looking for advice is testament to the role the board plays in the justice system. However, Carlow is one of only three counties without a dedicated law centre.

Carlow's legal advice centre only sits for a few hours twice a month, which is not good enough. Carlow is a growing town and the county's population has increased from 46,000 in 2002 to more than 50,000 in 2006. Carlow town had a 3% increase in its population during the same period. We are bursting at the seams and we need a legal advice centre.

Organisations in Carlow such as the South Leinster Rape Crisis Centre and Carlow Women's Aid have contacted me and other public representatives over the years. They want this centre for the people of Carlow. Imagine having no car and being separated, with two or three children and having to travel 24 or 25 miles to Carlow town by bus on a wet, ghastly day like today, looking for the services of the Legal Aid Board to find one has to sit in a room and wait for the service. It is not good enough. If we had a service in Carlow that was open five days a week, people could access it readily — the women and men of Carlow want it.

The settlement pattern of County Carlow is spread out through many small towns and villages and there is a rural hinterland under the Blackstairs close to the Wexford border. The clients who ring me and come to my clinics state they are desperate to get a service in Carlow town. When one must wait several months to be means tested and see a solicitor, the long and time-consuming journeys from rural south Carlow to Kilkenny can eat up much time and disposable income in what are often difficult and traumatic lives for those in question.

The Carlow legal aid centre has seven full-time employees. We would like to squeeze some support from Kilkenny for Carlow. The provision of such a service can be low cost. I am certain that suitable premises could be shared by an existing service provider. I ask the Minster to look favourably on this issue and this modest request. It is in tight economic times that the services such as those provided by the Free Legal Aid Board come into greater focus. Carlow must not be left out of the loop.

Photo of John MoloneyJohn Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

On behalf of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter today. The Minister is aware that the Deputy met his predecessor earlier this year and had a useful and thorough discussion of the issues arising, during which the Deputy had an opportunity to set out her concerns regarding access to civil legal aid services in Carlow.

Civil legal aid services in Ireland are delivered and managed by the Legal Aid Board, in accordance with the provisions of the Civil Legal Aid Act and regulations. The board's mandate is to provide a professional, efficient, cost-effective and accessible legal aid service and the Department works closely with the board at a strategic level to support it in delivering on this objective. Of significance is the grant-in-aid provided to the board by the Department, which represents its primary source of funding. The Minister is pleased to state this has increased substantially in recent years, by 40% since 2003. The eligibility criteria for legal aid have also been updated and streamlined in recent years, greatly increasing the accessibility of the scheme to persons of modest means.

While the funding provided is significant, there are undoubtedly many demands on the board's services and hence the efficient use of the resources available is of great importance. The detailed management of these resources is a matter for the board to assess, taking into account the level of demand for services and the needs of its clients generally. A key indicator at national and local level has been the waiting time for appointments with a solicitor and, while this would certainly not be the sole yardstick by which the board's services should be measured, it nevertheless represents an important strategic focus. The additional resources provided in recent years have been of great assistance in addressing this question but, as I indicated on behalf of the Minister, the demands and the challenges of managing the service are considerable.

In so far as the provision of services specifically in Carlow is concerned, the Minster would like to confirm for the information of the House that the board operates a part-time clinic in Carlow, which is supported by the full-time centre in Kilkenny. The Minister understands the Carlow clinic is normally held on the first and last Fridays of every month or by appointment as necessary. In 2007, 176 clients of the Kilkenny centre had Carlow addresses. Persons living in Carlow can also attend centres in other adjacent counties if for any reason this would be more convenient.

The Minister is further advised by the board that it is satisfied its clients in the Carlow area get a good service and that the board keeps the arrangements for providing the service under review. In addition to the ongoing oversight of the service, the board is engaged upon a broader review of the efficiency and effectiveness of the legal services being delivered by the law centres throughout the country. This review will examine how services are provided nationwide, examining the case profile at each centre as well as the costs of providing services and the various means by which legal needs can be delivered. The review will make recommendations designed to facilitate the provision of a flexible and responsive service to the client while providing value for money to the taxpayer.

One issue the Minister understands will be examined under the review is the extent to which the board provides services though part-time centres and he will pass on for the board's consideration the issues raised by the Deputy. However, opening additional full-time centres in Carlow, or another location, would have fixed cost implications for the board associated with acquiring and maintaining the centre and staffing it on a full-time basis. In an environment of considerable financial pressures, the Minister has a concern that this might not necessarily represent the best use of resources and could be counterproductive not only to the service generally, but also to the clients a new centre would aim to serve. The Minister understands waiting times at the Kilkenny centre, whether for clients living in Carlow, Kilkenny or elsewhere, are well within the board's performance targets and compare favourably to other centres. Diluting resources might make this more difficult to maintain.

In any event, the Minister will await the outcome of the board's general review of its services and assess its findings in the context of how best to support the board in assisting persons in need of its service, given the many demands that will be made on the resources available to it and to the Department.