Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Question 65: To ask the Minister for Transport if he will support the full recommendations of the Road Safety Authority on changing the blood alcohol level for motorists; his views on proposals to have reduced or administrative penalties for first-time drink driving motoring offences or offences for blood alcohol levels between 0.5 mg and 0.8 mg; the measures he will introduce to target the increased incidence of drug driving on roads; if he has received submissions from the Medical Bureau of Road Safety in terms of the expansion of their drug driving detection programme; if he has plans to increase the funding level for the MBRS; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23323/08]

Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Question 68: To ask the Minister for Transport his plans to introduce a new drink driving limit and associated penalties in order to remove the uncertainty caused by recent press reports; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23697/08]

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 65 and 68 together.

The Road Safety Strategy 2007 to 2012, as approved by the Government in October 2007, identifies the need to legislate for and introduce a reduction in the legal blood alcohol content, BAC, level for drivers, but does not specify what that level should be.

The advice of the Road Safety Authority, RSA, on the lower levels was received in April and was submitted to Government. The Government noted the recommendations of the RSA and decided the advice should be published and taken into account in the preparation of legislation under the road safety strategy. The general scheme of a Bill is being prepared in my Department.

Notwithstanding that the allocation of resources to the various programmes is a matter for the Medical Bureau of Road Safety, the issue of funding for the Bureau for any one year is considered in the context of the overall funding and resources for my Department and its non-commercial state agencies for that year and any funding submissions received from those agencies. I have provided increased funding for the bureau's recent move to new premises in University College Dublin, Belfield and have also increased the bureau's staff allocation. The bureau has allocated a total of €6.42 million in 2007 and the estimates process for 2009 has not yet begun.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We know that drink driving plays a role in approximately 37% of accidents. Half of all accidents involving young men are caused by drink driving. There are lower limits in our EU partners, about which we were talking a few minutes ago. Countries like Slovenia, Poland and Sweden have a limit of 20 mg. Do the Minister and the Minister of State agree that the limit should be reduced? Is it the policy of the Government to reduce the blood alcohol limit from 80 mg to 50 mg? Will legislation be introduced in that regard? Is the Government planning to introduce reduced penalties, such as administrative penalties, for first-time drink driving offences or offences involving a blood alcohol level of between 50 mg and 80 mg? It was recently indicated in the media that the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, and the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, have gone soft on drink driving as a result of the massive vintners campaign, which is ongoing. Is that the case? In the last Dáil, the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, bitterly opposed administrative penalties for fisheries offences. Is he now proposing to provide for administrative penalties for drink driving offences?

Drug driving testing programmes have been developed in many other parts of the world, including the Australian state of Queensland. The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, visited Australia to learn about projects of that nature. The drug levels of drivers can be tested at the side of the road. An insurance company, Hibernian, recently reported that approximately 20% of male drivers under the age of 35 admitted in a survey that they have driven under the influence of drugs. Does the Government have any policies in this regard? Does it intend to introduce a system of roadside drug testing? A number of companies, including at least one Irish company, have indicated that a test kit is available.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is right to point out that Ireland's limit of 80 mg is not in line with the limits in most other countries. We have the same limit as the UK. The limit in most other European countries is 50 mg. The road safety strategy, which was launched last year, set out the Government's position in this regard.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Do the Minister and the Minister of State agree that the limit should be decreased to 50 mg? Will they introduce such a limit?

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I am speaking for the Government. We are doing this on a stage-by-stage basis. We made it clear in the strategy that we will provide for a reduction. The Road Safety Authority's report, which was published recently, has been sent to and noted by the Government. We are working on the general scheme of the legislation that will make the changes.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Is it Government policy to set out a limit of 50 mg?

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It is Government policy, as outlined in the strategy. I cannot——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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You need to deal with that, Minister. Let us talk ordinary English.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We are talking ordinary.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I ask Deputy Broughan to address his comments through the Chair.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I apologise.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy should allow the Minister of State to respond to the many questions he asked.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I have mentioned the Government's strategy. We are now preparing legislation. That will be brought to the Government in the coming period.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I also asked about drug driving.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Having dealt with the issue of drugs when I was based in another Department, I know what Deputy Broughan is concerned about and I fully support his remarks. I accept that prototype tests are available in some countries, including Australia. However, we do not have a feasible basis for doing that in Ireland. I would like to get to that stage. The old regime, whereby a garda has to form the opinion that a person is incapable of driving, is still in place. We are considering the possibilities in this regard. The Medical Bureau of Road Safety is keeping up to date with the research into what is available. There are various prototypes in certain parts of the world. There is no agreed basis for doing that here. We are considering the inclusion in the proposed legislation of a scheme that would help a garda to form an opinion that somebody is incapable of driving.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I would like to ask a final question.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will call the Deputy after Deputy McEntee has asked some questions.

Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Any road safety measures introduced by the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, and the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, will get the full support of Fine Gael. I would like to comment on a distasteful report in a newspaper last Monday week. It seems that someone wanted to ascertain the response to the idea that drink drivers be given administrative penalties instead of being put off the road, in the context of a reduction in the limit from 80 mg to 50 mg. We cannot afford to play politics on this subject. I certainly will not do so. I came in for a lot of flak when I spoke in a direct and straight manner about this matter. I ask the Minister to face up to the problem. We cannot afford to lose lives.

The newspaper report that the Government is considering a change may be refuted. Was it mere speculation, designed to see what would happen? Did those who made the suggestion want to see if there would be an outcry from the public or from publicans? I accept that the publicans lobby does a good job. The changes which have been made in the interests of road safety represent part of the reason for the demise of rural life and pub life. We should have a proper debate on the matter. Young people are not fools — if they can buy a can of Carlsberg for €1, they will not spend €4 on it in the pub next door. Such matters need to be considered. It is not the case that the reduction in the drink driving limit is the only reason for the diminishing of rural life.

As Fine Gael's road safety spokesperson, I will support the Government in this regard if it does a good job. It seems that the number of road deaths is beginning to decrease. We should not play politics of the kind that was played in a newspaper last Monday week. We are lucky that the Road Safety Authority is still intact. I do not know who caused this story to appear in the newspaper. I do not know what the idea was. If that is the way politics is going, it is not very nice. The Government should say what it intends to do. We will debate it and support it if it deserves support. The Government should not wait until after the local elections. The longer it waits, the more people will be killed.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I saw the newspaper article in question. I know nothing about it. That did not come from us. Policy is made by the Government, rather than by the newspapers. There was a brief discussion on this matter during the debate on the Estimates this day last week. It was suggested that a committee should consider this matter and make a submission to the Department. I have outlined the options. No decision has been made. We do not have a definite frame of mind on it yet. We intend to introduce a lower limit, perhaps of 50 mg. That would be a new trend. While our limit of 80 mg is not in line with that of most countries, it is not the case that other countries always disqualify drivers who are found to be over the limit. We are examining what is done abroad when drivers are found to have a level of between 50 mg and 80 mg. In many cases, the penalty that is imposed is a fine or some penalty points. We would like to hear from those who have a view on the matter, including the committee and individual Deputies. The issue is whether we should disqualify everyone who is found to be over the limit. We need to consider whether it might be more appropriate to provide for a fine or some penalty points, or a combination of the two, in some instances. We have to make a decision on the matter. Anyone with a view on it should make it known. If the committee wants to make its voice heard, I would like to hear from it.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I agree with my Fine Gael colleague on the issue of administrative penalties. The report in the Irish Independent was so detailed that it had to have come from a source in the Department or the Government. Has the proposal to impose administrative penalties, rather than the traditional penalty of disqualification, been discussed with the Road Safety Authority and the Garda Síochána? The report indicated that people who are found to be just over the limit, or those who are convicted of a first offence, can argue that there were mitigating circumstances. In his previous position, the Minister argued bitterly against administrative penalties in the case of fisheries offences. It could be argued that such offences are much less serious than offences which lead to horrific road collisions. Has this proposal been discussed? I agree that it would be useful to discuss it at committee level. Deputies O'Dowd and McEntee and I have been discussing these matters with the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, for the past year. People would like a decision to be made at this stage. The Government seems to be rowing back — it is not telling us what it intends to do.

I would like to ask about the Medical Bureau of Road Safety. The Minister of State does not seem to be familiar with some of the issues. Some Australian states, such as Victoria, Tasmania and Queensland, have roadside drug testing. The population of Ireland is similar to that of Queensland and at least 6,000 people were tested there last year. It is happening in other jurisdictions. The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, travelled to Australia not that long ago to get these exact details. Is it not the case that the Minister of State is, at least in this sense, inadvertently misleading the House? Also, is it not true that the Medical Bureau of Road Safety asked the previous Government for more resources in order to provide comprehensive drink and drug roadside testing? Why are we still waiting for it at this stage?

Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State's final comment that, at the end of the day, none of us wants to be the bad boys but we want to ensure our roads are safer. I welcome the idea that everyone should be brought together on this issue. I ask that the Minister of State confirm again that it is his intention to bring interested parties together, including the Road Safety Authority, to debate this issue. He should do so now and not wait until three or four years time when more people will have died.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The provision of roadside testing devices is at prototype stage. The Medical Bureau of Road Safety is keeping abreast of developments in this regard. I am aware such devices are available in Australia and wish they were the norm here. The medical bureau is following up on the matter. I look forward to these devices being accepted in Europe and recommended for use here.

On administrative penalties, I had no hand, act or part in the matter which the Deputy said was covered in the newspapers last week. I knew nothing about the matter until I read the article. There is nothing new about administrative fines. They are provided for in earlier legislation but are not yet being enforced. We must decide whether a person found guilty of driving with between 50mg and 80mg of alcohol in their bloodstream should be disqualified from driving or awarded penalty points, which in some cases, depending on how many penalty points one has accrued, could disqualify a person from driving anyway.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Has the Minister of State discussed the matter with Noel Brett, Gay Byrne and the Road Safety Authority?

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We have received the Deputy's recommendation. The Department is considering the matter and will shortly bring legislation to Government.