Dáil debates
Thursday, 5 June 2008
Order of Business
10:30 am
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. a9, motion re membership of committees; No. 9, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a Council decision on the improvement of co-operation between the special intervention units of the member states of the European Union in crisis situations; No. 10, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a proposal for a Council framework decision on taking account of convictions in the member states of the European Union in the course of new criminal proceedings; No. 11, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a draft Council decision on the stepping up of cross-border co-operation, particularly in combating terrorism and cross-border crime; No. 12, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a proposal for a Council framework decision on the protection of personal data processed in the framework of police and judicial co-operation in criminal matters; No. 13, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the agreement establishing a maritime analysis and operations centre — narcotics between Ireland, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Kingdom of Spain, the Italian Republic, the Portuguese Republic, the French Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; and No. 13a, motion re extension of report back date by joint committee.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. a9, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 13a shall be decided without debate; that questions to the Minister for Health and Children shall be taken after Private Members' business for 75 minutes and in the event of a Private Notice Question being allowed, it shall be taken after 45 minutes, and the order shall not resume thereafter; and that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until Tuesday, 17 June 2008. Private Members' business shall be No. 46, motion re allocation of carbon allowances, resumed, to be taken after No. 13a and to conclude after 90 minutes, if not previously concluded.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There are three proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal to deal with Nos. a9, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 13a without debate agreed?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Where are these motions to be discussed?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There were discussed yesterday at committee and are before the House for adaptation.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I object to the way in which the Government is ordering the business of the House. We have a set of five motions which were considered yesterday by the Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, together with a proposal to extend the deadline for the consideration of the Thornton Hall proposal. It is often the case as we approach the end of a Dáil session that multiple motions are referred to committees. The latter are given only a short period to consider these motions, after which they are referred back to the House for approval. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform seems to be a serial offender in this regard.
I welcome the extension of the time limit for consideration of the Thornton Hall proposal. However, we must bear in mind that the House is effectively acting as the planning authority in respect of this project. As Deputy Rabbitte observed yesterday, a local authority would take two months to consider a planning application for a small development. However, the Government seeks to have it considered by the Oireachtas within a week. I do not propose to divide the House on the issue but this is no way to order the business of the House.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do not understand why the removal of the motion on Thornton Hall from today's schedule necessitates an early conclusion of our business. Surely there must be other business that can be addressed. Given that there are only three further sitting weeks before the summer recess, we should have resumed our Second Stage consideration of the Dublin Transport Authority Bill 2008 today, thereby allowing more time for the debate on the Thornton Hall motion when the Dáil returns on Tuesday week. Will the Tánaiste and Chief Whip consider my proposal? It makes more sense and would allow for greater participation in the Thornton Hall debate.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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In order to facilitate further debate on this issue, it was decided yesterday, at the behest of the Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, that the deadline be extended. There is a timeframe within which we must work and it has been agreed to debate this matter on 17 June. This is the most appropriate way to deal with it and it was not considered appropriate to look to further business. The best approach is to accept this proposal and thus allow for the further extension as agreed by the committee.
With regard to the overall issue raised by the Deputy, the justice committee is probably one of the busiest committees in the House and it has a considerable amount of work on hand.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It has no chairman.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That will be dealt with under No. a9. I believe Deputy Dinny McGinley did a great job yesterday.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should not respond to asides.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I knew where he was all day. It was fantastic.
Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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It is in giving that one receives.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am aware the committee is doing its utmost to evaluate all these matters in a short timeframe. The extension of time to deal with Thornton Hall was the wish of every Member and this has now been facilitated by order of the House.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is the proposal agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal to deal with No. 2 agreed?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Thornton Hall issue was to be dealt with today but that has now been deferred until after 17 June. The proposal regarding No. 2 demonstrates that the Government has no business to replace the Thornton Hall issue after Question Time today. Why is there no business to be dealt with today in the absence of the Thornton Hall debate? I note that on the day the House resumes it is proposed to guillotine the debate on the Dublin Transport Authority Bill. Why is that Bill not before the House today or, indeed, any other legislation we should be dealing with?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is the point I made but the Tánaiste did not respond to it in her earlier reply. I was prepared to quietly let the matter drop but we have an opportunity to continue the debate on the Dublin Transport Authority Bill, given that there is time available today. Question Time has been brought forward because there is no other business to fill the schedule so the sitting will conclude early. Surely we could have allowed the debate on that Bill to continue today. That is the appropriate way to do business.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Thornton Hall was to be dealt with today but, to facilitate the committee, the time has been extended. If we were to introduce new legislation today, the Opposition spokespersons would be in consternation as they would not have had adequate time to prepare for a debate.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Turmoil, perhaps. To be fair to Members who wish to participate in debates, it was decided not to introduce new business this afternoon. Members cannot have it both ways. Perhaps we could use this opportunity to canvass for a "Yes" vote.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I will be in a position to assist the House on the Thornton Hall issue.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Fine Gael has not commented on the proposal. I call Deputy Flanagan on the proposal to deal with health questions.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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On the proposal to deal with Thornton Hall, as mentioned by the Tánaiste when she spoke of consternation, one of the reasons the issue is not being dealt with today is the fact that it was given detailed consideration all day yesterday in the justice committee. The outcome of that——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We are not dealing with Thornton Hall but with the proposal to deal with health questions.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Everybody at the committee meeting spoke against the Thornton Hall development. The Green Party is on record as opposing it and Deputy Finian McGrath, with whom the Government has signed a sweetheart deal, is also now against it. We are aware that Fianna Fáil backbenchers oppose it.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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This is not appropriate to the proposal.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Why is this matter on the Order Paper? Who supports it?
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Maybe we can put it in the Deputy's constituency.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The question before the House relates to health questions.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Who is for it? Everybody in the committee spoke against it and that is why it is not on the Order Paper today. Is the Government in favour of the Thornton Hall project? All the Fianna Fáil backbenchers are against it.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy must resume his seat. Is the proposal for dealing with health questions today agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal regarding No. 3 agreed?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not object to the Dáil not sitting next week. It is normal practice in the week of a referendum. However, I must express concern about the time context of this adjournment. There was a very short sitting this week. For the life of me I do not understand why the House does not sit on the Tuesday after a bank holiday. It is nonsense and the House should address it at the earliest opportunity. I understand the Government plans to conclude this session at the end of the first week in July, which means there will be just nine sitting days after next week before the summer recess. The country is going through changing economic circumstances. Yesterday, we were informed that the Government has taken in €1.2 billion less than expected in tax revenues so far this year. Its finances appear to be way off track. Does the Government have any plans after the House resumes sitting on 17 June——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We are dealing with the proposal to adjourn until 17 June.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is to enable me to assess the proposal. Does the Government have any plans for the Minister for Finance to introduce a supplementary Budget Statement to the House between 17 June and the summer recess?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There are no plans to do so.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is the proposal regarding No. 3 agreed? Agreed. I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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To follow up on the matter Deputy Gilmore raised, yesterday's figures prove beyond doubt that the people backed the wrong horse in the election last year. The people were told by the previous Minister for Finance that they should not believe the economic reality put forward by Fine Gael and the Labour Party in our pre-election projections. We now have the evidence of yesterday's tax returns to show that this country is facing very serious economic challenges, something that was pointed out repeatedly by Opposition spokespersons. The consumer is being fleeced by diesel, petrol and home heating oil prices. Everybody, including fishermen and business people, is confronted every day by the reality of rising prices, stagnant incomes and difficulties with mortgage repayments, and this is being ignored by the Government.
The Tánaiste, in reply to Deputy Gilmore, said there are no plans to discuss the financial difficulties the country faces between 17 June and 3 July. However, we will insist on having a proper debate on a pre-budget outlook before the House rises in July.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy can be in order by asking about legislation.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, I am dealing with the preparation of the Estimates and the subsequent Finance Bill. There is no point in leaving this matter until November. The Estimates for 2009 will be very different from those for 2008. The Tánaiste should confirm that the House will spend two or two and a half days discussing the pre-budget outlook before the House rises in July——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is requesting a debate on the economic situation.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——so we can hear the Government's proposals to deal with staying within the borrowing limit of 3% set by Europe in the Growth and Stability Pact, how it proposes to deal with public pay——
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——and how it can ensure that it will not cut back on its capital programme, as outlined by the previous Minister for Finance and Taoiseach. I note that the Minister for Finance said yesterday that he has been left to clean up the mess that was covered up for the last number of years by his immediate predecessor.
Ten years ago there was a referendum on the issue of bail in the criminal justice system. There are currently 49 Bills relating to justice in the Government's legislative programme. The number of offences committed by persons out on bail has risen by 60%.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is up from 15,500 in 2004 to 24,200 in 2007. When is it proposed to do something about this in the 49 Bills on the list? When will the new Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform inform the House that he will take action to deal with the serious offences being committed by persons out on bail?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the justice issues, five considerable Bills are on the A list——
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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——that are an absolute priority and that all Members of the House would like to be enacted.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should be allowed to respond.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the issue of bail, at present we cannot give a definite time but the matter is being kept constantly under review by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the issue of a debate, I was asked whether there was a proposal to introduce a supplementary budget to the House. There are no plans to do so.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste was not asked about that, she was asked——
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——if we could have a pre-budget outlook discussion in the House.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Gilmore objected to you.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Tánaiste to speak without interruption.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We need order.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the issue of a debate on the economy and the economic outlook, I am sure that matter can be discussed among the Whips if it is seen as a pressing and important issue to be considered.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no point in doing that in October. The Tánaiste is in charge and under the remit of her Department 65,000 construction workers have gone out of business.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The race will be run.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter for the House.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We need to discuss the matter in the House before October.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Gilmore should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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A race to the bottom.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We have nine sitting days left until the Government plans to close this House down for the summer. We have been supplied with a draft schedule for three of those days, 17 to 19 June, inclusive, which leaves just six days free for business other than that which the Government has listed for those three days. Will the Tánaiste indicate what business the Government intends to transact in the House between now and the planned rising of the Dáil in early July?
Arising from her earlier reply to me that the Government does not have plans to make a supplementary Budget Statement to the House before the summer, what opportunity will be taken in the Dáil to introduce a comprehensive Government statement of policy on the state of the economy, which is in a completely changing set of circumstances? This is not a matter for discussion between the Whips, I want to know what are the Government's intentions. We have seen the figures in regard to the public finances. People are losing their jobs and they are worried about their businesses——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That seems a perfectly good question to address to the Taoiseach or the Minister for Finance.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——prices are rising and cutbacks are being imposed on public services day in and day out.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The question regarding the schedule of business is a legitimate one.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I am not finished on this point. There are completely changing economic circumstances. The Government appears to have its head collectively buried in the sand and it is proposing——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy knows there are a number of ways that this matter can be debated such as by means of Private Members' business, through a formal debate or by questions to the appropriate Minister.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——to close down the Dáil. This House will adjourn today until 17 June.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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This is the Order of Business.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Yes, I am talking about the Order of Business between now and 4 July. What plans does the Government have to make a statement to the House so that we can all consider how it intends to deal with the changing economic circumstances?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I have another issue I want to raise later.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will come back to the Deputy.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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As you know, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I am trying my utmost to stay within the framework of being in order.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Tánaiste need not worry about that, the Chair will do that job.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On that basis I resist rising to the challenge that is being put forward on the economy.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It is more than a challenge.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I accept the returns have been disappointing but income receipts are on target and we have a very resilient economy. It is not without its challenges, many of which are not necessarily local but are of a global nature.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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If the economy is going well the Government is responsible.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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If the Leaders of the Opposition and the Whips wish to facilitate a debate we will not resist it. People are most anxious to have other legislation concluded by the end of the term, mainly on the fair deal. An intoxicating liquor Bill was published today and people are very anxious that those matters are equally as important and must be dealt with. I am sure we can facilitate discussion on the economy——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A number of Deputies are offering and I want to try to accommodate everybody.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Why will we rise on 3 July?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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——within the framework, but as we all know next week will be fundamental to the economy. We are all agreed that it is appropriate for all Members of the House to take the opportunity to ensure that we remain very strong within the European Union and that we have a successful outcome on 12 June.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. It is appropriate on this special day north of the Border that we extend good wishes to the new First Minister designate and the Deputy First Minister as they embark on what hopefully will be a worthwhile and fruitful relationship at the helm of the Executive and the Assembly. We hope that in the very short time ahead we will see the delivery of those critical elements of the promise and hope of the Good Friday Agreement delivered.
On a separate matter, regarding the limited time that remains between now and the summer recess, as has been alluded to, the Government should facilitate a debate within the House to address the deepening crisis within the health service. I speak specifically about the fact that this week we have seen the exposure of the ever-increasing number of patients waiting on trolleys in accident and emergency departments and at this time of the year——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We cannot have the debate now.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I ask if the Government will facilitate, over the period of the limited weeks ahead between now and the summer recess, an address of this crisis because if we do not address it now, what will the situation be like in the autumn and the winter period?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is absolutely essential that that is done.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is appropriate that we give the best wishes of the House to the new First Minister and Deputy First Minister and wish them well. We look forward to working with them in a collaborative way in the years ahead.
On the issue of health services and reform, that is a matter that has been discussed ad infinitum in this House, almost every day. If we wish to factor in debates, that can be done within the limited timeframe. We will have to prioritise and we will facilitate that prioritisation to the best of our ability.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Chief Whip please take note of that?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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For the information of the House, Standing Orders require that a debate be promised before it is in order to be raised.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I join the Tánaiste in hoping for a "Yes" vote next week. I note her boss, the Taoiseach, and some of his colleagues were canvassing at the races in Kilbeggan last week. I wonder if he had any insider knowledge by way of tips from the former Taoiseach as to likely runners and winners.
On promised legislation, No. 14 on the pink sheet, the prison development approval confirmation Bill, which is necessary legislation to facilitate the development at Thornton Hall, is that legislation still going ahead having regard to the fact that the Green Party is on record as not supporting the legislation and Deputy Finian McGrath is now very much against it?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The point is made. What is in order is——
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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As recently as yesterday Fianna Fáil backbenchers expressed their opposition to it. Is there any point in proceeding with this legislation now?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The question about the legislation is entirely in order.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation will be introduced following the outcome of the resolution of the House.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Is the Bill proceeding?
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Is it Government policy?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, and if it was in Offaly the Deputy would probably not be giving out.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, is losing control. He has been in the job for only a few weeks but he has lost control. They are revolting against him. He will have to wheel them in to the boss.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise three matters. Given that the economy is taking a downturn and the employment possibilities that would be created by a new port at Bremore, will the Tánaiste advise us of the state of the harbours Bill and when it will come to the House?
As a woman of compassion, I am sure the Tánaiste will be concerned at the fact that many people on medical cards cannot get a dentist on the medical card scheme. One woman from south Dublin spoke on the radio last week about——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is not in order on the Order of Business.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Hold on, I am sorry, but it is. She was told to travel to Carlow from south Dublin by the Health Service Executive.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Decisions are made by the Chair.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I refer to the dentists Bill. When will the Bill come to the House and will it address this worsening situation whereby dentists do not take medical card patients?
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy cannot ask about the content of the Bill.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Patients with medical cards find that it is becoming impossible to get a dentist.
My last question is whether there are plans to introduce legislation to regulate laser eye clinics that are springing up all over the country.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is any such legislation promised?
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Grave concern has been expressed by many hospital staff because of the problems that people have suffered as a consequence of treatment there.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed that the harbours Bill will be introduced this year. No date has been scheduled to bring the dentists Bill to the House. I am not aware of any proposals to introduce legislation on the regulations outlined by Deputy Reilly, but I am sure the matter can be raised with the line Minister.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I promised Deputy Gilmore that I would allow him back in.
11:00 am
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I seek clarification on the Tánaiste's reply on Government business and legislation the Government intends to have enacted by the summer recess. Did I understand correctly from her that it is the Government's intention to have the fair deal legislation and the intoxicating liquor Bill enacted by the summer recess. Does the Government intend to have any other legislation enacted by the summer recess? Will the Tánaiste give the House an assurance that the guillotine will not be used in pushing through any of that legislation?
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The guillotine is being sharpened.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am reminded by some of the comments this morning that the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Brian Lenihan, intended to establish an all-party committee on gambling. Is it still the Government's intention to proceed with that proposal or does it believe it has sufficient expertise on the matter on its backbenches now?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There are a number of new Bills that we would like to bring to finality, but we are not quite sure that will happen as one or two of those Bills are complex and will take some time. We also have the remaining Stages of the Dublin Transport Authority Bill and the prisons Bill. We need to get through a considerable amount of legislation and hopefully it will be enacted by the end of the session.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Will the Government guillotine it all?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the other issue, I believe it is still our intention to proceed with an all-party committee and I am sure Deputy Gilmore will have sufficient Members on his benches to facilitate it.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two items. I have a document from the Commission on Taxation.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Certainly. If it is not in order, this document certainly is not in order.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am glad the Deputy recognises that so I can call the next Deputy.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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It relates to the financing of local government. I imagine it has gone through two Departments, the Department of Finance——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy will raise something that is in order.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It will be in order in a minute.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We are 32 minutes into the Order of Business and 11 more Deputies are offering.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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The document is a submission to the Commission on Taxation seeking €200 property tax on every house in County Kerry, water meters and water charges on every house——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is not in order on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Kathleen Lynch.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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——planning fees to be increased by 100% and a carbon tax.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Kathleen Lynch is called.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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On the other issue I have——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will come back to the Deputy.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The issue I wish to raise arises from the answer to a parliamentary question I submitted, just in case the Tánaiste suggests the matter is more appropriately to be dealt with by way of parliamentary question. Legislation has been enacted to deal with this issue and I want to know when it will be fully implemented. It relates to people with an intellectual disability who are inappropriately placed in psychiatric hospitals. I received the reply to my question this morning and it makes harrowing reading. I want to talk about the timeframe for introducing statutory instruments. I will read the last paragraph.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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If it is a very serious matter, it can be dealt with by way of Adjournment Debate.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Consistency is not futile.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Every time the Tánaiste stops to rest today — I know that will not be often — she should think about one of these people. There are 98 people, one third approximately——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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While I agree this is a very serious matter, it is not appropriate for the Order of Business, as the Deputy knows.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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——with a mild disability in psychiatric hospitals, one of whom needs to be moved to a nursing home. There is another group investigating it.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is not appropriate to raise it now.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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It is appropriate in so far as we need statutory instruments to deal with it.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy might consider submitting a request to have the matter discussed on the Adjournment Debate.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The Adjournment Debate will give me the contents of the reply I received this morning, which is of no benefit to the 329 people——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It would be better if the line Minister were here.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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——who are in psychiatric hospitals and should not be there.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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It will take one of these people to take an action against the Government to get it sorted.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Consistency is not futile.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow Deputy Joan Burton to put her in question, which, I have not the slightest doubt, is in order.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I wish to ask about two matters. I understand the Government plans to close the Dáil on 3 July for ordinary sessions.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is a matter that will be decided in due course by resolution of the House.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That is the date we have been given. Does the Tánaiste appreciate that the Exchequer figures for June, which will be the half year——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is not in order on the Order of Business.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It may well be important, but it is not in order.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The figures will be published on 2 July and we will have no opportunity to debate them in this session unless the Government agrees now——
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——to have a proper adjournment debate on the state of the economy, as used to be the practice when the Dáil concluded a session.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is a matter that can be debated among the Whips.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I got an indication from the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach that there would be a debate on the national development plan. Yesterday the Minister for Finance indicated that a significant number of items in the national development plan——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is there a promised debate on the national development plan?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——may be either deleted or put on the long finger.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is there a promised debate on the national development plan?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We need a debate, particularly on the public transport items in the plan.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe it is promised. We cannot pre-empt what will happen in the coming weeks, which will be a matter for the House in due course. We will decide in due course when the House will rise. I am sure we will have the usual discussion.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has been around for a long time and she should nearly know the position.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Government cancelled the debate.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Tánaiste to answer the question.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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If there is a matter of serious concern to the Members of the House and if we can get agreement to discuss it, then perhaps we can have an all-encompassing debate that would be inclusive of the issues of which the Deputy speaks. I do not see that this would cause any predicament or problem. However, we will need to find the appropriate time to allow that to happen.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I have a second matter for the Tánaiste.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will call the Deputy again. I have 11——
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I previously asked the Tánaiste about management companies. She has not included any reference to management companies in the legislation the Government proposes to take before the end of this session.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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When is legislation on management companies due?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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She referred to an interdepartmental committee of Ministers dealing with management companies. It is a major issue for tens of thousands of people who have bought units that are subject to management companies.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We will not be able to accommodate other Deputies if certain Deputies monopolise questions.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Has the Government made any progress?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy has put the question and I will allow the Tánaiste to answer it.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There has been progress on the matter. We need to await the outcome of the Law Reform Commission——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I ask the Deputy to allow the Tánaiste to answer the question.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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There is plenty of time to answer the question.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We need to await the outcome of the Law Reform Commission's deliberations. Considerable progress has been made and the Ministers have met on a number of occasions on the matter.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it be introduced before the end of the session?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The way we are going at present, the end of the House will be tomorrow because we will run out of time.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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If everybody would co-operate we might allow those Deputies waiting a long time to get in. I ask Deputies to be brief and allow other Members to participate.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I raised this matter before, but it is necessary to raise it again. This week is the first ever disability and international development week. On the ratification of the United Nations Convention on Disability, I received a reply indicating that the Minister for Health and Children or the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform would reply to me directly, but that has not happened. If other countries proceed to ratify ahead of Ireland not only will Irish citizens with a disability not have access to the protection of the convention, but also Ireland will only be entitled to be an observer at the monitoring committee on its implementation.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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On the ratification of the convention.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Will it be ratified in the lifetime of the Government?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I know the Taoiseach raised the matter at the Deputy's behest with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and he will be in touch directly. I will give him a reminder on the matter.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In view of the more challenging economic environment facing the country, does the Tánaiste intend to introduce proposals to the House under the responsibility of her Department to deal with the requirement to train and upskill 500,000 workers in the medium term? A great number of young apprentices in trades and crafts——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is not appropriate to develop the point.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——are now left in limbo because of deterioration in the building sector.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is legislation promised in this area?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is the Tánaiste's Department. Does she intend to bring proposals before the House to deal with that situation?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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No legislation is required to deal with that; I am dealing with the matter.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The fact that legislation is not required does not mean we do not have to deal with the human consequences of people losing jobs and being out of skills.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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This is the forum in which one asks about legislation. Questions on enterprise policy should be addressed by way of parliamentary questions.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is the Minister responsible. Can I take it that the proposals under the existing plan to deal with retraining——
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We are dealing with it.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister leave the Minister for Finance to clean up the mess left by his predecessor?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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There has already been some discussion on the proposals for a prison at Thornton Hall. I want to raise the proposal to move the Central Mental Hospital to the Thornton Hall site and the widespread opposition to that from a variety of organisations. Economist, Mr. Jim Power has made a cost-neutral proposal to leave the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum by selling off part of the site. This would cost the State nothing. Has the Government given any thought to that?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is not appropriate on the Order of Business as the Deputy well knows.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I knew the Leas-Cheann Comhairle would say that so I ask this in the context of the mental health Bill, which is on the long-term list. Could the Government bring that Bill forward so we can debate this issue before it becomes a fait accompli?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The mental health Bill will be introduced next year.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Will be there be any consideration of Mr. Power's proposals on the Central Mental Hospital? We need a debate on it.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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My apologies to Deputy Penrose. I inadvertently passed over him on the list.
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I accept that. This House is acutely aware of the importance of day care centres as a lifeline for elderly people across this country. Is the Government aware that nothing is sacrosanct or safe from the scalpel of cuts imposed by the HSE? I ask this against the background of legislation so it will be in order. Is the Government aware that when it takes steps to ensure a day care centre, St. Mary's Hospital in Mullingar, which has been proposed for closure for six weeks of the summer——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Penrose knows that is not in order.
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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Hold on, it is. When will the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill be introduced?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We have reduced the Order of Business to a general free-for-all.
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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Nothing is sacrosanct with the HSE. It will not answer to this House.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is the Deputy asking about promised legislation?
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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Those elderly people, especially those from rural areas, are being left out in the cold. Does this Government give a fig about anybody? Does it take control of the HSE or just push matters out to another quango that answers to nobody?
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I speak for the elderly people of the country and my area. It is a disgrace. It is time the Government takes hold of the HSE, abolishes it and brings control back to people who are responsible to this House.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sure that would be an excellent question to the Minister for Health and Children.
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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One would get no answer — that is why I am not asking any questions.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Like many other Members of this House I was thinking of making a modest investment with my local bookmaker.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sure that is not in order on the Order of Business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I will mention the legislation in a moment. I can assure the Leas-Cheann Comhairle that this is in order. I had to scour this document for it. My colleague, Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick, tells me such investments can be very precarious.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy must ask an appropriate question or we will move on to other business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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To generate a debate and bring to the House all the expertise we can, I thought of the Curragh of Kildare Bill. However, I have found the appropriate Bill, namely, the collective investment schemes (consolidation) Bill.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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When it is expected to bring that piece of legislation to the House?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have another question on promised legislation. This is a serious one.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I can draw a conclusion on that from Deputy Durkan's last question.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Does the Tánaiste think it is appropriate that a person on bail on a charge of murder issues threats to carry out another murder?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy will resume his seat.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The appropriate Bill is the crimes Bill. Can the Tánaiste respond in some way to the appalling situation whereby people on bail for serious crimes are free to go about their crimes in their local areas?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will move on to other business because this is an abuse of the Order of Business. If the Deputy would resume his seat——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I will resume my seat but I want to tell the Leas-Cheann Comhairle that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Tánaiste have responsibility——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy will resume his seat.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have resumed my seat.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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As Deputy Durkan well knows, on the Order of Business it is in order to ask about the timing of legislation that is promised and on the schedule and not to make a speech about——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I did not want to go through the whole list.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not possible to indicate at this stage.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is correct. It is not possible. That is the problem. Nothing is possible.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will seek to allow a number of other Deputies to speak but I ask them to be in order. If we have another free-for-all we will move on to normal business.
Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I want to ask about two pieces of legislation. Are there any plans to amend the drinking water regulations in light of the findings in reports by the HSE and Cavan and Monaghan county councils on phenol contamination of water in Cavan and Monaghan? What is the situation regarding the reform of the foreshore legislation which has been promised by the Government for years? It is needed for us to comply with the Aarhus Convention and the public participation directive, over which we are being brought to court by the European Commission. Many decisions will be taken in the future on the development of our foreshore.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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As I indicated previously, there is no date for the foreshore legislation because there must be a further transfer of functions. I am not aware of any proposals on the other matter but we can raise it with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I join with my Ulster colleagues, the Tánaiste and Deputy Ó Caoláin, in wishing the former First and Deputy First Ministers well on their first day off and for the future. I would gladly hear the Tánaiste saying the nursing homes fair deal Bill will be dealt with before the summer. When will it be published? Will there be a proper opportunity for discussion of it? In the meantime, will interim measures be taken to deal with the crisis?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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This legislation will be published. It has taken considerable time to draft, re-draft and bring it to finality. We are all very anxious that it be made available as quickly as possible and that when it comes to the House we will have afforded the opportunity to discuss it.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Will it be published before we return?
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Will the Tánaiste bring forward any legislation or allow time to discuss her proposal to close the coastguard stations at Malin Head, Valentia and Dublin, given that this is the stated policy of her colleague in the Department of Transport?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is any legislation promised on that?
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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No legislation is promised.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Is the Tánaiste planning any initiatives about the collapse of employment in the construction industry where week-on-week more and more young men and women are being laid off?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is any legislation promised? We cannot have a general debate on the economy.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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This the most important thing happening and that is the responsible Minister.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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No legislation is needed.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I have two questions on promised legislation. The first is the road traffic Bill. What is the Government's position on the reduction in alcohol consumption limits promised?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is not appropriate to ask about the content of legislation.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It has been promised. Is there confusion in Government circles in view of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's comments yesterday that, I believe, he is not in favour of saving further lives by reducing that limit?
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I did not say that. Deputy O'Dowd got it wrong. I said I was in favour of it.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Under the public transport regulation Bill, in view of the concerns expressed about the national development plan and the Transport 21 projects and their importance to the economy and particularly to employment, can the Minister assure us, under that Bill, that the national development plan and Transport 21 proposals will be fully implemented and on time?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is not in order, as the Deputy knows.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The road traffic Bill will be forthcoming at the end of this year and the public transport Bill will be introduced after we bring it to finality.
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps the Tánaiste could explain to me No. 13, as follows:
Motion re: proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the agreement establishing a maritime analysis and operations centre-narcotics between Ireland——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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On the Order of Business the Deputy cannot ask the Minister to explain items——
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I want an answer from the Tánaiste. Why is the word "Republic" dropped from Ireland?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sure that would be a very good parliamentary question, but it is not in order on the Order of Business.
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The motion mentions the Kingdom of Spain, the Italian Republic, the Portuguese Republic, the French Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Why is "Republic" dropped from Ireland?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I call Deputy Doyle. Would Deputy Sheehan allow his colleague, Deputy Doyle, to ask a brief question?
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Why has the word "Republic" been dropped?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The question is not in order. I call Deputy Doyle. The Deputy will resume his seat.
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Why have we forgotten about the Republic?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We will move on to ordinary business.
Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Please, I have just one question on legislation.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Sheehan should not make a mockery of the Dáil. He should take his seat.
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Why was the Republic dropped? Could the Tánaiste——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I would like to take a brief point from Deputy Doyle, if his point is in order.
Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On foot of an information day and a presentation by Muscular Dystrophy Ireland to the joint committee of the Houses, there is all-party agreement that in particular we should introduce enabling legislation with regard to Duchenne muscular dystrophy to allow the House to fund exon skipping trials in the UK rather than——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is there promised legislation in this area?
Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Legislation is required and deemed necessary. We need agreement from the House to allow it.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is legislation promised? This is not Question Time.
Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is legislation that needs to be amended.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I take it there is no promised legislation in this area.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not aware of promised legislation. I am aware of the proposal from the committee, which I am sure the Minister will consider.