Dáil debates
Wednesday, 28 May 2008
Order of Business.
11:00 am
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 17, statements on Constituency Commission report, Dáil and European Parliament constituencies; and No. 2, Legal Services Ombudsman Bill 2008 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the following arrangements shall apply in respect of No. 17: the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes. Private Members' business shall be No. 40, motion re education — class sizes — resumed, to conclude at 8.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 17 agreed? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I was interested to note that the newly appointed Government Chief Whip, Deputy Pat Carey, sent out a missile to his own Members, and rightly so.
Seán SherlockJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny knows as well as I do that missiles or epistles are not in order.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In a certain sense, they might be.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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If we were discussing President Bush.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have in my hand a document which sets out the public engagements of Ministers and Ministers of State. The point I am making is that the Government Chief Whip sent out an edict telling Members to be here on Thursdays and that there will be no pairs or arrangements. Yet for next Thursday, there are nine engagements by Ministers and Ministers of State at various locations around the country which are the responsibility of the Ministers and the Government in determining——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not in order.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, is opening the Mitchelstown Business Park.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not in order.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is attending the Bord Bia Bloom event; the Minister for Social and Family Affairs is attending a national conference on the Green Paper; and the Minister for Defence is laying a wreath. If we are to follow the edict of the Government Chief Whip, arrangements should be made that no Ministers attend functions that are not entirely in the national interest or in the interests of international business, for which this party has always been willing to give pairs. We need clarity from the Government Chief Whip.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot allow this.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No Minister or Minister of State should be arranging for road or school openings or the attending of conferences. As the Ceann Comhairle knows, the Deputies in those constituencies will also want to be in attendance and will be breaching the edict sent out by the Government Chief Whip. I am only trying to help him by offering him some assistance as one who did some of that business myself.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not helpful to the Order of Business and is not conducive to obeying the Standing Orders of the Dáil. I must ask Deputy Kenny to obey Standing Orders.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If I raised this issue the other day, it would have been related to the fact that the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Devins, attended the awards for science excellence in Dublin Zoo. These are matters that could be arranged at a time when the Dáil is not sitting, where they would not interfere with Deputies of the Government parties being present in the House on Thursdays in accordance with the edict of the Government Chief Whip. We can require them to be here in a way according to that and I am only trying to be helpful. These arrangements can be made in such a way that they would not apply like that in future. I would say that this was in order.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny knows very well that it is not in order.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On 9 January last, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government established a committee to review the electoral boundaries for local elections. He gave that committee the requirement that it had to report before 20 June. Under the terms of reference he gave to the committee, it is quite clear there will be quite significant changes in electoral boundaries for the local elections.
I have two questions for the Taoiseach in respect of that. Has the Minister received that report? Can we get an assurance that it will be published straightaway when he receives it? This report will contain the proposed boundaries for the local elections next year. It is in the interests of electoral fairness that those boundaries would be known to all political parties and not just those in government when that committee presents its report.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe the report has been submitted at this stage. The publication arrangements will be the normal ones in respect of these matters.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is the problem. The problem has been that in the past, local election boundaries have been kept under wraps until the very last moment. A committee has been established to deal with this. It is a new procedure under the Local Government Act 2001. I am asking for an assurance that when the report is received by the Minister, it will be published and made available straightaway. There is a deadline for the submission of the report, which is 20 June, so it will be in this session of the Dáil. I am asking the Taoiseach for an assurance that it will be published straightaway.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It will be published in the normal way. It will not be a question of holding it faoi rún until the eve of the election. It will be dealt with in the normal way. Presumably——
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no significance to what I am saying. It will be published in the normal way. When it comes to the Minister, he deals with and considers it.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Reports can take months to be published.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It will not take months to be published. It will be published as soon as possible and practicable after the Government has had a chance to look at it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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As I understand it, this is procedure which is relatively new. I think it comes under the Local Government Act 2001. I do not think we have been around this track before. I understand that it is the first review of local government boundaries since 1998 so there is no normal way. This is not something that comes up every year but is a one-off report that looks at the populations involved. The terms of reference it was given state that the minimum number of seats must be four and the maximum seven. It will involve very significant changes in local election boundaries.
All of the political parties who are preparing and organising themselves for local elections and holding selection conventions need to know what the boundaries are. People out there who might be contemplating standing in local elections need to know the local election boundaries. What I am asking for is very simple. The Taoiseach said that the Minister has not yet received the report. This is a report that must be presented by 20 June. That report will land on the Minister's desk some time between now and 20 June. I simply want an assurance that this report will be published and made available to us, not on the same day, but within a few days, being reasonable about it, and that a situation will not arise where the Government parties are in possession of the electoral boundaries for the local elections and the rest of us must wait until next September or October.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I assure the Deputy that will not happen.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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In light of the appalling crime levels afflicting this country on a daily basis and the horrific circumstances surrounding our elderly people and what they must endure in society, when can we expect the publication of and debate on the crimes Bill? This Bill is long overdue and we urgently need it because many elderly people are living in fear across the country and are being attacked on a daily basis by gangs from this city.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no date for that Bill at the moment. I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities to discuss law and order issues generally in the meantime.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, a 70 year old man had to wait for eight hours in the outpatients department of Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda for an X-ray that took but a few minutes.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must get to the legislation.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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He had to sit in the discomfort and the indignity of his own wet because he could not access the toilet facilities in that department.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation is the Deputy referring?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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These are the realities and stories coming to Deputies from all over the jurisdiction. I am asking in the context of the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill, what the Taoiseach can do to bring forward legislation and to make some concerted effort with the Minister and the Department to have these disgraceful situations stopped once and for all.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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When is that legislation due?
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Under pending legislation, why, after agreeing some €15 million or €23 million in fees to KPMG to administer the nursing homes refund scheme, have only 9,796 out of 39,000 cases been settled and why is there only one appeals officer to deal with 3,000 appeals?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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What legislation is the Deputy asking about? He will have to address his query to the Minister for Health and Children during Question Time. I am not allowing that.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I want to ask about the fair deal legislation.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask the Taoiseach about it.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Will the fair deal legislation deal with any of this? When will we see that legislation, which was promised last year before Christmas——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the fair deal legislation, Taoiseach.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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——then promised before Easter and again a couple of weeks ago? There are only two sitting days in the Dáil next week, followed by a break for a week and then there are only nine sitting days remaining before the summer recess. I want the Taoiseach to assure us that we will have adequate time to discuss this Bill, given that, as I understand it, there have already been 14 redrafts of it. It is complex and impacts on everyone in this country and we need a proper and full debate. The Bill should not be guillotined like the Health (Amendment) Bill just before Christmas.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the fair deal legislation, Taoiseach.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is due this session.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The week before last the Tánaiste, in replying to similar questions, said she expected the Bill to be published in about two weeks. It is two weeks later at this stage and as Deputy Reilly said, there is quite a short amount of time left for Dáil business. We must ensure we have time to consult and listen to the interests involved. If the Bill is not published this week I do not think we will have time to deal with it before the summer recess.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is due this session.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Could the Taoiseach be more accurate in his reply?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste was accurate before.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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She said two weeks, the last time she was asked.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Amnesty International has just published its annual report, in which it is critical of Ireland's role regarding extraordinary rendition and its failure to acknowledge or act——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now, Deputy. It is not in order.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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——on any of the recommendations of the Council——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must ask a question in the context of legislation. We cannot discuss the contents of a report now.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I am coming to my question. Ireland failed to act on any of the Council of Europe recommendations. Will the Taoiseach act on those recommendations and will he allow the report of Amnesty International to be debated in the House?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the debate, Taoiseach.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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A debate is a matter for the Whips and I answered on the other issue when it was in order from Deputy Gilmore.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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On the Order of Business and the manner in which we order our business in the House, there are only three full weeks and one half week left before the summer recess. In the justice area, 48 Bills are promised and due, many of which are mentioned, on a daily basis, on the Order of Business over a wide range of issues, from the covert surveillance Bill to the criminal justice (cybercrime) Bill to the ratification of the UN Convention on Transnational Organised Crime Bill. I ask that, between now and next week, in conjunction with the Whip's office, a priority list be ordered so we can know in advance which of the 48 Bills are priority Bills and which of those priority Bills will be taken before the summer recess. I also ask the Taoiseach to guarantee, in the context of justice legislation, that in June, when we are nearing the summer recess, adequate time will be given to the debates and there will not be guillotine motions on a daily basis. Given the importance of all the legislation and the fact the House must give careful scrutiny to all of it, I ask for a priority list.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that five Bills from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform are on the A list. A legislation committee meeting is scheduled for 3 June which will examine further issues regarding prioritisation.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Taoiseach to ensure that spokespersons are notified by the Whip's office of the priority list.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The road traffic Bill has been on the clár for a long time. This morning the Irish Examiner points out again that approximately one third of drivers who receive penalty points cannot be awarded them because they are foreign drivers. This is something the Government could tackle fairly quickly by bringing forward the aforementioned Bill before the summer recess. I ask the Taoiseach to respond on that legislation.
I beg the indulgence of the Ceann Comhairle to refer to the fact that yesterday we heard a very important presentation on the metro north corridor, outlining a major series of investments for Swords and district going back to the——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I wish to ask the Taoiseach if we will need legislation. The presentation referred to the much-needed new general hospital for the north side, a university and so forth. Deputy Pat Carey, who is sitting behind the Taoiseach, has a profound interest in this——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the road traffic Bill——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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——as I do. Will we have legislation or even a Dáil debate?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the road traffic Bill.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not due this session.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What of the other matter?
Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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On the issue of the Electricity Bill, it was made quite clear two weeks ago at a presentation to the Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources that there is a new mechanism for transferring electricity and that a company called IMERA is in a position——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot raise a presentation from two weeks ago this morning. On the legislation, Deputy McEntee.
Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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——to provide underground cabling in this country for the same price as over-ground cabling.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the legislation. The Deputy can table a parliamentary question on the matter. He must ask about legislation now.
Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach be instructing the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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——order EirGrid to look at this new way of transferring electricity?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Durkan. Deputy McEntee is out of order.
Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I do not think I am out of order. This comes under the electricity Bill. We have had a presentation——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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When is the electricity Bill coming before the House? That is all the Taoiseach can answer here.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill is on Report Stage.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On promised legislation in the justice area, the Money Laundering Bill has been promised for some time. Given the need for that legislation, I ask the Taoiseach to indicate whether it is likely to be included in the priority list to which he referred in his earlier reply to Deputy Charlie Flanagan. On the issue of the transfer of assets from the ESB to EirGrid, what is the likelihood of that Bill being electrified and brought through the House before the summer recess?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the legislation, Taoiseach.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have not finished yet. There is one last item, which the Ceann Comhairle will enjoy. This is especially for him. The Curragh of Kildare Bill has been promised faithfully and repeatedly for at least six years. When does a promise become a reality?
Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Let us have a steward's inquiry.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Promise and reality never really meet.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle would like to have the issue resolved and the Taoiseach would be doing the nation a great service if he would tell us when the Bill will become reality, along with the other two I mentioned.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is at least one more year in the Curragh of Kildare Bill. We have no date for the second Bill and the first will probably be dealt with later this year.
12:00 pm
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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What is the present position regarding the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, an urgent Bill as it deals with social housing and such new arrangements which might allow for the provision of same? There are also two conventions about which I have asked before. One is the UN Convention on Disability and I ask the Taoiseach to indicate whether that it will be ratified by Ireland in the coming year. The second is the UN Convention against Corruption which was promised in the Government's White Paper on development and in the programme for Government but shows little likelihood of being passed. I ask about that convention regularly. I ask about the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill because of the urgency of the discussion regarding social housing and the two UN conventions, one on disability, which is urgent and is being actively sought by the Disability Federation and the other on corruption.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill is due this session. On the issue of the conventions and when they can be incorporated into law here, it is best to have the Minister for Foreign Affairs write to the Deputy formally on the matter. I do not have the information to hand.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I look forward to hearing from the new Minister for Foreign Affairs but there was a kind of uncommon tediousness in the letters I have been receiving from his predecessor, with no disrespect.
The UN Convention on Disability is very important. A major contribution to that convention was made by Professor Gerard Quinn, who was on the drafting committee. It is a convention associated with Ireland and it reflects very badly on us that it has not been incorporated into law here. The Taoiseach, who has an interest in disability, knows that the Federation on Disability and others are very anxious that legislation concerning the protection of the rights of the disabled be given priority.
It really is not good enough because at this stage, all these conventions are queueing up in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It makes a nonsense of the people who work so hard in this area, like Professor Quinn who has worked for years on bringing this convention into being.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the issue of conventions and secondary legislation generally, let it be said, the standing order provides that because of the fact that the information might not be readily available to the Taoiseach, it is the norm that there would be communication on it later. That is with regard to secondary legislation.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The standing order requires that I be answered in relation to forthcoming legislation——
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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——and the Taoiseach has the responsibility, as well as the Minister for Foreign Affairs, as the signatory to the conventions. There is widespread public support for these conventions to be signed into law.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the conventions, Taoiseach.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On the disability area generally, this Administration has put on a statutory footing many important landmark statutes, which provided, quite properly, the rights framework for people with disabilities going forward. Much of the multiannual investment has been allocated quite rightly to that area and I hope that will continue.
The mental capacity Bill, which deals with some of the issues that are perhaps also covered by that convention, is due later this year. Various items of legislation are sometimes brought forward to adapt various parts of a convention rather than having an omnibus enactment which, while ratifying conventions, in terms of the wide application and interpretation of them may well be such as to be beyond the policy positions of Governments at any given time.
Our commitment in this area is well worth recognising. We have been working hard in the disability area. The mental capacity Bill deals with another aspect of disability. As I said, it is due later this year.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Will Taoiseach advise the House if any Government member or representative will attend the opening ceremony of the Olympics?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the Olympics now. I call Deputy Stanton.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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On secondary legislation, the Youth Work Act was passed in 2001, but a considerable part of it, approximately 30 sections under Parts 2 to 6, inclusive, relating to the youth work functions of VECs and ministerial publication of lists, ministerial directions and so on, has yet to be commenced. It is seven years since that legislation was passed. Can the Taoiseach indicate when Act might be fully implemented?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know that so I will have to make inquiries for the Deputy.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I refer to the publication transport regulation Bill, which is No. 92 on the Government's legislative programme, in the context of the recent rail disruptions between Dublin and Cork. I bring to the Taoiseach's attention that a 1959 train — I do not mean a train that left at one minute to eight — left Letterkenny and has not been seen since.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not going to be found here either.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I would like to ask the Taoiseach——
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We could have an inquiry about it.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Iarnród Éireann has an advertisement campaign on rolling out rail services across the country. I have two questions for the Taoiseach. When will the rail service be extended to Donegal and, if it will not be extended there, is Iarnród Éireann in breach of advertising standards? Can the Taoiseach give me an expansive or even a brief answer on that matter?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Crawford.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I believe the Taoiseach is going to answer my question.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, it does not matter. I call Deputy Crawford.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is trying to answer my question.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no way this can be raised. I call Deputy Crawford.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is trying to answer the question.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If I started that game, we would be here until tomorrow morning.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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For a county to be 50 years without rail transport is not a game.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise three items that I assure the Ceann Comhairle are in order. When will the attachment of fines Bill be brought forward to release gardaí to do their work?
The health information Bill is extremely important to ensure we get correct information. Some €4 million is being spent per week on bed blockers while beds are lying idle in Monaghan.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to stick to promised legislation because we must move on with business.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The third item I wish to raise was already touched on. Can the Taoiseach do something to alleviate the position facing those people in private nursing homes who do not have adequate money and need the provisions of the long stay Bill to meet their needs?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation is the Deputy referring?
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We were promised this in December 2006 and nothing has happened as yet. We need this legislation now.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's spokesperson on health raised that issue already on this Order of Business.
It is not possible to give a date as to when the attachment of fines Bill will be ready.