Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Question 82: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if, in the upcoming review of the Towards 2016 social partnership agreement, she will ensure that greater priority is given to affording older people greater social protection in the areas of poverty, inequality, access to basic services, age discrimination in employment and social exclusion; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [13623/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The vision for older people as set out in the social partnership agreement, Towards 2016, is to enable people to maintain their health and well-being and to live full and active lives in an independent way in their own homes and communities for as long as possible. The agreement already includes a wide range of commitments regarding older people in the area of pensions, long-term care, housing and accommodation, mobility, health services and education and employment opportunities.

These commitments, which are elaborated in the new national action plan for social inclusion 2007-16, adopt a co-ordinated approach across a range of policy areas, reflecting the complex nature of poverty and social exclusion, which is multifaceted in its causes and effects. The plan, in addition to the 12 high level goals, contains 17 targets focussed on older people.

Responsibility for the implementation of different aspects of the plan, and the commitments in Towards 2016, rest with the appropriate Minister. Access to basic services is a matter for the Minister for Health and Children, discrimination in employment will be dealt with by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment while equality issues are the responsibility of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. For my part the priority is in the area of income support, and significant progress is already being made in these areas. Increases in pensions granted over successive budgets, which have been consistently higher than both inflation and wages, have made a major contribution to tackling poverty.

The future of our pensions system is a major theme in Towards 2016 with a commitment to publish a Green Paper on pensions and to develop a framework for long-term policy in this area. The Green Paper was published in October 2007 and a consultation process on its contents is drawing to a close. The Government will respond to the consultations by developing a framework for the future of pensions and it is planned to finalise this by the end of the year. The needs of older people have always been a priority for this Government and this will remain the position. I will ensure that the good progress being made on the aspects of the agreement for which the Department is responsible is maintained.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Barrett had hoped to take this question but he is in a committee meeting. The Minister listed the Ministers responsible for various areas but who is the appropriate Minister for older people? With the appointment of 20 Ministers of State yesterday I hoped we would have clarity on the appropriate person. According to the Taoiseach, the Minister of State dealing with older people is Deputy Máire Hoctor. Can the Minister outline the functions she has from the perspective of the Department of Social and Family Affairs as opposed to the functions the Minister will retain?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I did outline who the appropriate Minister was, stating that basic health services was a matter for the Minister for Health and Children, discrimination in employment is dealt with by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and equality issues are the responsibility of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The area of concern to my Department is income support and pensions.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, the person who will co-ordinate that?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy asked where the areas of responsibility lie. The Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, is assigned to the Departments of Health and Children, Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Social and Family Affairs. Her job is to co-ordinate a strategy for older people, drawing on those three areas.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister of State deal with income support for older people within the Department of Social and Family Affairs or will she deal with strategy?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Pensions and income support is a central role of mine. I see the pensions strategy as one of the major items that must be addressed.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I used to stand in this position when Deputy Dermot Ahern was the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. His target was £100 per week for the contributory State pension. In the era of the Celtic tiger we went past that. I tried to get him to commit to having the State pension as a high percentage, perhaps 35% to 40%, of the average industrial wage. Deputy Ahern refused to do so while he was the Minister. I refer to Professor Eamon O'Shea's fine study Older & Bolder. Is it not true that there is a 27% risk of poverty if the older cohort is examined? Are we still not the lowest of the EU 15 in terms of income support? An area that impinges on the Minister's portfolio is the growing danger of fuel poverty. It was stated in that study that senior citizens in Ireland are at greater risk of dying of hypothermia than their counterparts in Finland. It is astonishing that an Irish man or woman is at greater risk of dying of hypothermia than a person living in Finland with its harsh, long and dark winters. This is an indictment of the Government which, following 11 years in power, has not addressed fundamental issues of income support.

Some six, seven or eight years ago there was much talk about our finally coming to grips with the pension issue through the provision of an adequate three-legged pension for senior citizens. Is it not the case that the Government frittered away all of the money of the Celtic tiger on all kinds of madcap schemes initiated by the former Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern? Eleven years on, the Government still has not addressed the fundamental issue of pensions, which will be a serious problem for this country when the so-called baby boomers begin to reach retirement age. The Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Hanafin, now has responsibility for addressing these matters and, in particular, the sufferings of a significant number of senior citizens under her Administration.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I accept that pensions and the development of a long-term pension strategy are significant issues requiring to be addressed. The consultation process runs until the end of this month. A major forum will be held at the end of this month in Dublin Castle following which all ideas will be brought together. I should point out, however, that there is no consistency of approach in the submissions received to date. I do not for one minute imagine this will be an easy issue to tackle. However, it is an issue to which I will afford priority.

It is also worth mentioning, given that Deputy Broughan mentioned the £100 pension, that the contributory old age pension now stands at €223.30 per week and the qualified adult pension is €200. Also, the non-contributory pension is €212 per week while a qualified adult receives €140 per week. This illustrates the Government's commitment during the past few years to ensuring——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What is the average industrial wage?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Pensioners are not in receipt of the average industrial wage.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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They live in the same world.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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This also illustrates that the rate of consistent poverty for older people in this country has reduced from 3.1% to 2.2% which means that the targets to be achieved by 2012 have already been met. This says a great deal about the Government's commitment in this regard.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister needs to go beyond that now. May I ask a brief supplementary?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We are well over time, but the Deputy may ask a brief supplementary.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I want to make a few suggestions to the Minister in respect of her administration——

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I would prefer it if the Deputy asked questions.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I want to ask the Minister about pensioners aged over 80 years. A qualified adult, usually a woman, does not receive further increases in payment when she reaches 80 years of age. Is this an issue the Minister intends to address? Her predecessors failed to address it and many other issues affecting women and, in particular, widows. I ask that the Minister examine these issues.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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There has been some discussion in regard to the over 80 age group. Obviously, I would like to work towards ensuring there is equality for women in social welfare services.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Question 83: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if her Department will continue to use and maximise its usage of post offices for all types of social welfare payments; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18710/08]

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Question 89: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs her views on the calls by the Irish Postmasters Union at its annual conference for the Government to recognise post offices as the provider of choice for the delivery of social welfare payments; if she will make a commitment on same; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18709/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 83 and 89 together.

In 1992, my Department and An Post entered into a five-year contract for the delivery of payments. This contract was renewed in 1997 for a further three years to the end of 1999. The award of a further extension of the contract in 2000 became subject to complaints to the European Commission under competition and procurement law.

On 13 November 2007, the European Court of Justice ruled in Ireland's favour. However, this was on the basis of lack of proofs by the Commission rather than on legal principle. The judgment also indicated that the services which fall under Directive 18/2004/EC, Annex ll B, must be subject to advertising if they may be of interest to undertakings within the member state concerned or in other member states.

Legal advice on the judgment is being reviewed within my Department. In the meantime, the current arrangements with An Post for the delivery of social welfare payments remain in place. The procurement of supplies and services by public bodies is governed by EU procurement directives and by national public procurement policy, as enunciated in guidelines issued by the Department of Finance. In broad terms, public procurement policy is aimed at ensuring that the taxpayer obtains value for money and that the public procurement function is discharged honestly and fairly. Therefore, placing a contract directly with An Post without a competitive process would contravene EU and national procurement rules and could result in further legal action against the State.

With regard to the operation of the post office network and the location of post offices, this is a matter for the board of An Post which comes under the remit of the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. An Post and my Department have been partners in the delivery of social welfare payment services since the foundation of the State and there is every reason to believe that An Post and the network of post offices will continue to play a significant role in the delivery of social welfare payments in the future.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister's response, through no fault of her own, has caused me to be more rather than less concerned for the future of rural post offices. I accept An Post does not come within the remit of her Department. However, 500 post offices have been closed in the past eight years. This, coupled with a halving in the past ten years in the number of social welfare payments paid through post offices and the reduction in the number of bill payments at post offices, is a cause of genuine concern.

The Minister stated her Department had received legal advice on the judgment of 13 November from the European Court of Justice. When is it expected the review of that legal advice will be completed? Also, will the Minister give a commitment that she will during her tenure of office and, within the law and European regulations, try to ensure as many payments as possible can be made through post offices, a declining but important part of rural communities?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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As Deputy Enright stated, my Department must comply with competition law, European regulations, services directives and so on and cannot do anything that goes against them. At the same time, however, everybody appreciates the value of the post office in terms of accessibility for recipients of social welfare payments. An Post currently plays a major role in regard to the provision of such services and I envisage it will continue to play a strong role in this regard.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The post office has been called the fortress of rural life, the place where senior citizens and others can meet, communicate and keep up to date with neighbours and friends and with what is going on in the community in terms of local events. It is a shocking indictment of the Government that it has since 2002, as my colleague said, closed 500 post offices. I note that Leitrim has lost 41% of its post offices and that Cavan, Sligo and Westmeath have each lost approximately 40% of their post offices. One of the hallmarks of this Administration has been its decimation of the post office network. Did this need to happen?

The Minister continually refers to the European Union, but surely it is the responsibility of the Government to pursue a universal service obligation in regard to postal services notwithstanding the 2009 liberalisation directive. What is happening now is that a key part of rural infrastructure is being removed. The Government is complicit in this and the Minister is not playing a strong enough role in this regard.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the Deputy appreciates fully that from the perspective of the Department of Social and Family Affairs any future contracting arrangements will have to be in the form of tender and must be transparent. It is significant to note that 46% of payments made to 1.8 million recipients every week are made through post offices.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It was 80% ten years ago.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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People now have a wider choice and can have their payments made through the post office, bank, credit union or other recognised financial institution.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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That is a big change.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It is interesting to note that people on long-term schemes use their books. Some 384,000 people and 272,000 child benefit customers are paid electronically while others such as job-seekers, one-parent families and early child care supplement recipients receive their payments through the post office. A significant number of people continue to choose to use post offices. I see it as important to give them the choice and, as the Deputy stated, it is important for rural Ireland. I accept post offices play an important role in rural Ireland. Everything we do must be transparent.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Has the Department had discussions with An Post and its partner, Fortis, with regard to the banking system, the orange part of the green, white and orange image of the new An Post? Has the Minister had discussions on linking the small local banking services into the social welfare and post office operation? Will she do this in her administration?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I am not yet aware what talks have taken place in this regard.