Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 80: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if she will undertake an awareness campaign to assure people about the new social services card for collection of social welfare payments; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18708/08]

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 90: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the measures in place to assist people in receipt of social welfare payments in using the new social services card to collect payments at the post office as social welfare books are being phased out; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18707/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I propose to take Questions Nos. 80 and 90 together.

The Department supports Government policy which aims to facilitate the greater use of electronic payment systems in the economy in the interests of developing a world class payments environment in Ireland. Our payment strategy is designed to ensure that cost-effective arrangements are in place for making payments to social welfare customers by using a range of payment options and to ensure that new payment facilities are made available to customers as they arise.

The Department is implementing a three year strategy to change paper based payment instruments to electronic payments at post offices, banks and other financial institutions on a phased basis. Currently, some 74% of customers receive their payment electronically direct to their post office or financial institution.

A range of measures are under way to inform customers of the change in payment methods and to address any concerns they may have regarding the use of the social services card to collect their payment at post offices. Each person is being informed by personal letter of the change in their payment arrangement. A social services card, along with a covering letter explaining how to use the card, is also being issued to them. Posters are being displayed in all post offices, citizens information centres and throughout the Department's local office network.

An Post and the Irish Postmasters Union, IPU, are committed to assisting customers in the use of social services cards for collecting their payment. In this regard An Post, supported by the IPU, has recently initiated a nationwide publicity campaign informing people about receiving their social welfare payment using a social services card at post offices.

Stakeholders and customers representing the elderly, people with disabilities, the unemployed and other focus groups have already been consulted and have welcomed the move to electronic payment at post offices. In addition, the change from paper to electronic payment is a key element of all public information events, seminars and information briefings being carried out by the Department in the coming year.

I am confident that the planned range of measures to inform customers of the change to electronic payment will ensure a smooth transition for them.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the clarification on the campaign that will be undertaken, particularly measures to contact people, raise awareness etc. There was genuine concern about the move to this new type of payment, particularly among the small and diminishing numbers who are not used to the electronic world at present.

I want to ask the Minister two supplementary questions on this matter. Has she any intention of using this as an opportunity to push for a greater degree of financial inclusion and to encourage particular groups, such as older people and lone parents, who do not have savings accounts to use it as an opportunity to promote that idea as well, particularly in the post offices?

There has been a degree of confusion on this issue. Elderly people are currently able to sign the back of their book for a couple of weeks and allow somebody else to collect the payment for them. There is concern about how that will operate under the new electronic system. If somebody signs a form, how long will that form last? Elderly people can be abused by others who are supposed to care for them but who are trying to get some financial gain out of the abuse. I want to ensure the system is watertight so that cannot happen.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The potential to use the card would enable all sorts of other schemes to be incorporated in it, such as transferring the money into a savings account and a payment account. It can be examined as it is used over the years. The Deputy mentioned those people who might not be familiar with technology, but 70% of new applicants for State contributory pensions and child benefit opted to use the electronic card. Perhaps older people are not as unable to use the technology as we think.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am not suggesting they are not.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is encouraging. Having agents to collect for elderly people was a key issue for them. If an elderly person needs to appoint an agent, those arrangements will be made. Special arrangements will be made from next June and if it must be done in the long term, a letter will issue from the Department enabling the carer or agent to collect the payment.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is also my main concern that it would be more difficult for the relatives of older people and of people with a disability to access payments for them.

In my usual portfolio of transport, we are pursuing the new smart card for the Dublin transport system. The comment has been made that there is much scope for integrating a transport smart card with other facilities. Have officials from the Department of Social and Family Affairs spoken to the transport authorities or the banks about more streamlined services? There is capacity for many technical activities on cards, such as the Oyster card on the London transport system.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Wide consultations took place regarding electronic payments, but it may well have been with those bodies that represent the recipients. I do not know if consultation took place on a wider basis, but I could certainly envisage that happening once it is up and running. This card enables the payment of money into accounts, as opposed to a card that allows for free travel or an integrated transport service. I would love to arrive at a situation where these cards are widely used, but it is a very specific card for payment at the moment. I believe the aims of this card will be achieved and perhaps we could have more consultation on it with other bodies over the coming years.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is a card for payment that will allow a person to get a full entitlement that week at the post office, or wherever. My concern is that elderly people might be vulnerable. Can the Minister clarify exactly how a payment can be collected by an agent? At the moment, a person can sign one, two or seven cheques and allow somebody else to cash them and bring back the money. Therefore, the person retains a degree of control. My concern with this card system is that a form will have to be signed which contains a date specifying how long somebody is entitled to collect the person's payment. What checks are in the system to ensure there is no abuse? Sadly, we could all refer to instances where that has happened in the past. Perhaps the Minister could concentrate on that issue when she is discussing the card with the various interested groups.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

A person can claim a pension payment for up to 100 days and this continues to be the case. When payment is made, a receipt is given indicating the amount and what it was for. It includes the breakdown of the payment, such as whether there were qualified adults or children included in the payment. An agent collecting on a long-term basis will have to get a letter from the Department authorising him or her to do that. For people aged over 75, the paper payment is often more comfortable and it continues without question.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I know there will be an agent facility, but I am concerned about the checks ensuring the payment goes to the intended recipient at the end of the day. I am not convinced the checks are there for the swipe card, which is something we need to ensure.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Department and An Post are jointly working on a system which will facilitate the agent, with a view to rolling it out at the end of next month.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am concerned about facilitating the person who is entitled to the payment, not the agent.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It will facilitate the use of an agent by the recipient. Safeguards will have to be put in place to make sure the money is going to the right person.