Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Question 81: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of the nine principal officers who were in his Department prior to the deadline for opting to decentralise or remain in Dublin and who have applied to transfer to the decentralised headquarters in Killarney; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18516/08]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Following the announcement of the Government's decentralisation programme in the 2004 budget, the Department, which has a staff of 130, excluding the National Archives, was designated an early mover by the decentralisation implementation group. Of the nine principal officers who were in the Department prior to the announcement of the programme of decentralisation, only one applied to transfer to Killarney. That officer subsequently decided against relocating. However, four principal officers from other Departments and offices applied on the Central Applications Facility to decentralise to Killarney and they transferred to the Department on a planned, phased basis. Three of the remaining principal officers posts have been filled through promotion competitions and there are panels in place from which the remaining two posts will ultimately be filled.

Overall, only ten of the existing staff of the Department opted to transfer to Killarney and it was clear that the impact of the implementation of decentralisation could be significant if not managed properly. Against this background the Department set itself a key corporate goal in its 2005-07 statement of strategy to manage the organisational challenge while continuing to deliver quality customer service during the implementation of the decentralisation programme.

To underpin the delivery of this goal a decentralisation implementation plan was prepared and is kept under constant review. The Department's human resource strategy and its partnership structures were revised to take account of the implications of decentralisation. A decentralisation committee, comprised of management and staff, has been established to support and to help address the operational challenges involved. Furthermore, in order to meet the needs of new staff transferring into the Department a comprehensive training plan was put in place, which is regularly reviewed and revised. Procedures manuals have also been prepared in the financial area and in the case of the Department's major capital programmes.

To specifically address the potential loss of corporate memory, the transfer of staff into the Department who applied to relocate to Killarney was planned carefully and carried out on a phased basis using some overlaps in the case of critical areas. At this stage a total of 84 staff are in place, 70 of whom are already based in temporary premises in Fossa. It is expected that the new permanent headquarters for the Department will be ready for occupation in the last quarter of 2008. The intake of the remaining staff is scheduled to take place between now and the first quarter of 2009 when the Department will be fully decentralised.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Did I hear the Minister correctly when he said that none of the nine principal officers in his Department who have experience will be moving to Killarney?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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How many assistant secretaries will be moving?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have that detail but I will get the information for the Deputy.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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From questions to the previous Minister I understand eight members of staff with experience in the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism are moving. Some five members have moved and three still have to move. Does the Minister understand the concern that exists in all sectors of the Department with the loss of expertise, corporate memory and continuity and the lack of any coherence? I understand this is an early mover and the move is happening but there is no transfer of experience. The previous Minister was Dublin based but how does Deputy Cullen propose to operate a Department as diverse as it is from Waterford? In his first week, the Minister has learned that the Department consists almost entirely of agencies, most of which are based in Dublin, such as the Sports Council and the cultural institutions on both sides of Leinster House. How does the Minister envisage this operating? They cannot move so would the Minister reconsider total decentralisation?

I was surprised to hear only €645,000 has already been spent, which I thought was great value, until I discovered this figure excluded property. I do not know what €645,000 was spent on so far. It might be feasible to decentralise one element of sports, arts or tourism but trying to decentralise all three elements when all the bodies are based in Dublin and the Minister is based in Waterford, with no principal officers leaving and I suspect only one assistant secretary and seven other members of staff, would seem to lead to absolute chaos. No policy unit is decentralising. Where is this Department going?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I accept that there is a challenge but I have discussed this with the Secretary General and my experience in my first few days is that there has been a co-ordinated and planned approach to this. The assistant principals and principal officers to whom I referred earlier gained experience they would not otherwise have. They are not just coming in overnight and transferring to Killarney. Some 70 members of staff have transferred to Killarney and we will not row back on that. There are logistics issues for some operational matters. I have no problem going to Killarney, it is a nice part of the country with which I am familiar.

In terms of communications in the modern world we live in, many of what are perceived as traditional problems can be easily resolved. There will be times when face to face meetings must be organised but, from the discussions I have had in the Department, I am generally satisfied there is a positive view and that the 70 members of staff are positive about their remit. We must learn new skills and some of us must learn them quickly but it is not beyond the ability of senior civil servants to pick up on new skills very quickly. Some have been in the Department for nearly three years and in that time they have acquired the knowledge needed in the Department. There is not a major issue in that regard.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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From my brief discussions with people in the Department I do not think there is a positive approach to moving to Killarney. It is not just a question of the Minister going to Killarney. The reality is that the steering groups——

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy asked about me so I answered her.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is certainly an important part of it. The National Gallery, the National Library and the museums in Dublin will be completely disconnected from what is happening in Killarney. The real worry is the absence of any policy continuity. When the Department decentralises, we will have nine people with experience in arts, sports and tourism. That is a frightening thought for all Departments because I suspect it is no different in other Departments.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It should be remembered that long before this programme was put in place, civil servants have moved regularly between Departments as part of promotion systems.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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They do not have turnover of 95%.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It was not at the level of the decentralisation programme. Given the length of time some of these people have spent in the Department - three years in some cases - I do not think the Deputy is suggesting there is a lack of knowledge or experience of the Department. I have been in the Department only a few days and must get to know it and understand the issues in a short time. That is a challenge but I have confidence that the staff who opted to go to Killarney and to other Departments elsewhere are more than capable of making the transition. It is not without its challenges but in the long term it will be very good for the Civil Service and for the country, particularly the locations of new Departments.