Dáil debates

Thursday, 1 May 2008

Priority Questions

Human Rights Issues.

3:00 pm

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs when he last had discussions with the Chinese ambassador; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16661/08]

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister met the Chinese ambassador on 16 April regarding the situation in Tibet. During the meeting, which took place in a sensitive atmosphere, the Minister set out the Government's policy on the situation in Tibet, as well as on our relations with China as a whole. The Minister also raised the effects on Irish business people and tourists of the introduction of new Chinese visa procedures.

The Minister deplored the loss of life of both ethnic Han Chinese and Tibetans over the past two months and sought to urge all sides to exercise the maximum restraint, to underline the importance Ireland attaches to the right of freedom of expression and peaceful protest, to urge the Chinese authorities to allow greater access by the media and independent observers to Tibet to allow an assessment of what has been happening there, to establish from the Chinese authorities what has happened to the protesters, seeking assurances of their well-being and the release of imprisoned peaceful protesters, and to encourage dialogue between the Chinese Government and the Dalai Lama.

The Minister again raised these points with the Chinese ambassador, with a particular emphasis on the importance of dialogue between the Chinese Government and the Dalai Lama. The Minister made clear his view that dialogue is the only peaceful and sustainable way of ensuring the preservation of Tibetan religious and cultural identity, as well as addressing Chinese concerns regarding its territorial integrity. In this context, the Government welcomes the announcement last week that the Chinese authorities are to meet in the coming days with representatives of the Dalai Lama. We hope that these meetings can move quickly to remove any remaining impediments to more substantial talks which could address the issue of autonomy, within the framework of the Chinese constitution.

It remains the Minister's view that it is through open and frank dialogue, on a bilateral basis as well as through the EU, that we can best impress our concerns on the Chinese authorities. China remains a key player across a range of important issues, not only relating to human rights and the situation in countries such as Burma and Darfur, but also regarding climate change, sustainable development, trade and investment.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is aware that the Chinese ambassador left the Green Party conference when his ministerial colleague made reference to Tibet as a country. Was this issue raised by the ambassador or the Minister? If so, what was the view expressed? Does the Minister of State believe that this incident may have had an impact on Irish and Chinese relations?

The Chinese have given a commitment that they will reopen talks with representatives of the Dalai Lama. I understand those talks have not yet begun. When and where will they begin? Who will represent the Chinese authorities and who are they prepared to meet from the Tibetan Government in exile? What is the purpose of the talks? There is concern among the Tibetan community that once the Olympic Games are over and the world's focus moves away from Tibet that we will be back to square one.

On the other hand, I acknowledge that the Chinese situation is complex. There are 1.4 billion people living in China, while Tibet is the size of western Europe and not the size of Wexford or Wicklow. China has also started to move on the issue of human rights, albeit very slowly. However, it is important to acknowledge that Chinese people probably feel a bit under siege from the West, and that no matter what stance they take, we seem to be dissatisfied.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot give an opinion on what happened following the statement made by the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I will communicate separately with the Deputy on that issue. The issue in Tibet is very complex and sometimes we form stereotypical views on it in the West, which is not helpful. I was in China for St. Patrick's Day and the dearth of information there made it difficult to make any coherent response. I share the Deputy's view that it is imperative that a meaningful dialogue begins and that restraint is shown. There should be a greater realisation that nothing but good can come from recognising human rights as inviolable, as we hold in the rest of the world.

In the cultural nature of things, finger wagging by the West towards China is not as helpful as it otherwise might be. Dialogue is far more likely to produce progress.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I agree with that, but within certain constraints we may have to take measures available to us if things do not move on. Can the Minister of State use his good offices to ensure that the international media are let back into Tibet and that those who were arrested following the riots are released? Does the Government propose to send a representative to the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games?

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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A final decision has not been taken on the issue of the opening ceremony. Discussion on this issue in Europe is ongoing, and different views have been taken. I am pleased that the Deputy focused on this aspect rather than an argument for boycotting the games. I agree with him that the contacts with China should include issues such as the admission to Tibet of the international media and the condition of those peaceful protestors who were arrested.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the efforts the European Union and Ireland are making to ensure a democratic response to the recent elections that have been held in Zimbabwe; the details of the talks that have been held with the African Union and neighbouring countries of Zimbabwe; and his views on the statements of leaders of civil society that the country stands on the brink of human rights catastrophe. [16868/08]

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is deeply worried about the ongoing situation in Zimbabwe. We believe that the democratic rights of the Zimbabwean people have been violated by the unacceptable failure to release presidential election results over a month after votes were cast. We condemn utterly the appalling violence and intimidation against opposition supporters and civil society activists in Zimbabwe, especially in rural areas. These indefensible attacks represent a catastrophe, not just for those subjected to horrific injuries, but also for the prospects of a secure environment required to finalise the electoral process.

EU Foreign Ministers discussed the situation in Zimbabwe at the General Affairs and External Relations Council in Luxembourg last Tuesday. They agreed that the failure to release the presidential election results was unacceptable and insisted that the results, when released, must reflect the will of the Zimbabwean people. They strongly urged an end to violence and human rights abuses. Ministers expressed support for efforts by the Southern African Development Community and the African Union, and indicated the EU's willingness to put further pressure on Zimbabwe if the situation does not improve. They noted that the EU does not sell arms to Zimbabwe, and urged a worldwide moratorium on such sales. Ireland is in full agreement with this approach.

The EU and Ireland continue to believe that the most effective strategy is to work closely with Zimbabwe's neighbours, who have the greatest potential influence on events on the ground, as well as with regional organisations and the UN. The Lusaka Summit of the Southern African Development Community on 12 and 13 April urged the quick release of election results in accordance with the law, with verification and counting being witnessed and authenticated by all parties in the election. The SADC further offered to continue observing the counting process, as well as any second round of voting which may be required. Improved international monitoring of any run-off election will be vital.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

The EU, including High Representative Solana, has been very active on the Zimbabwe issue, making contact with all of Zimbabwe's neighbours in the Southern African Development Community to express our concerns. Contact has also been made with key figures in the African Union. Development Commissioner Louis Michel attended the SADC summit in Mauritius on 19 and 20 April, and had a number of contacts with key regional leaders.

Ireland has also been active on a bilateral basis, using our network of contacts in the southern African region, especially with Irish Aid programme countries, to express our concerns directly. The Taoiseach had an opportunity to raise the issue directly with the Deputy President of South Africa in Dublin on 9 April while the ambassador and officers from our Irish Embassy in Pretoria continue to visit Zimbabwe on a regular basis.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I am grateful to the Minister of State for his reply. However, I would like to hear a little more on the conversations with Zimbabwe's neighbours, particularly South Africa. Is the Irish Government satisfied with the role of the South African Government on the continuing position in Zimbabwe? What efforts did the Irish Government make to have election observers appointed for the recent elections there? In respect of elections in that part of Africa — the Minister of State referred to the South African community — does he agree that it is in the interests of the region to have election observers appointed at the early stages of elections given that 70% to 80% of election abuses, including fraud, occur in the registration process at the early stages? These are important issues.

My next question concerns the human rights activists who have been arrested in Zimbabwe. I previously asked a question about whether the president of the Human Rights Commission was free and about the Human Rights Watch report on the arrest and abuse of members of the opposition. Does the Minister agree — I would like an explicit answer on this — that human rights vindication and protection cannot be frustrated by a bogus assertion of the concept of sovereignty? In other words, human rights abuses in Zimbabwe are not confined to a concern of Robert Mugabe or his Government but are matters of concern for the international community.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I have no difficulty in agreeing with the Deputy on that latter point. Human rights abuses are a matter for us all. Human rights are not indivisible but are universal and we should have a care for them. Those of us who have any influence should use it for the vindication of human rights because to trespass on human rights in one part of this planet is to trespass on human rights everywhere.

There are, as the Deputy will appreciate, certain practical realities which we must face. The Deputy asked a specific question about what is our adjudication as to the role played by neighbouring states. Our adjudication is that those neighbouring states could play a vital and real role. We believe it is very important to work closely with them and encourage them to be active. The Deputy who, over the years, has given great attention to matters African and dealing with the post-colonial crisis that reigns across that part of the world will agree that, in a practical sense, finger-wagging by Europeans may not be the best way of dealing with matters in Africa. However, we must encourage African neighbours and organisations such as SADC to be much more active in this area, to play a real role and to see that it is in their interests and those of their citizens and all humanity that the situation in Zimbabwe is addressed.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Michael D. Higgins may ask another supplementary question.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I appreciate the Minister of State's broad sympathy with my questions and I agree with his answers. What is the position of the Government in respect of a run-off election? Will it send observers? This is practical.

My next question relates to the previous one. Is the Irish Government concerned at the dispatch of a boat carrying armaments from China to southern Africa? Does he agree that the refusal of organised workers in South Africa to handle the boat is one of the high moments for democracy in Africa?

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. If there was any light in what is a tragedy, it was the extraordinary action taken by South African workers to prevent a boat which should never have taken to the seas to arm this regime.

There is a practical issue in respect of international observers and observation missions in the case of elections because it very much depends on the agreement of the host country. Frankly, I cannot see that coming from the Zimbabwean authorities. That is why I believe it is through SADC and the neighbours that the greatest amount of progress can be made. The Deputy will probably agree with me on this. One hopes that they will be more active in that regard.