Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 66: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if in view of his repeated statements on smart meters he will guarantee that the roll-out will start by mid-2008 as promised; when he envisages the completion of the programme for Government commitment to have smart meters installed in every home; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15629/08]

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The roll-out of a national smart meter programme is progressing in line with the commitments in the Government's energy policy framework and the programme for Government. The programme is a central component of our strategy to significantly enhance management of demand for electricity and achieve greater energy efficiency through the use of cutting-edge technology.

The delivery of smart metering requires a collective response. This is a technically complex and ambitious initiative. The steering group overseeing programme implementation is chaired by the Commission for Energy Regulation and includes representation from Sustainable Energy Ireland, ESB networks, ESB customer supply, independent suppliers and my Department. Four working groups which also report directly to the steering group are mandated to progress the complex technical aspects of smart metering, including tariffs, billing and data services, networks and customer behaviour.

The pilot phase, which will be the start of roll-out, is scheduled to get under way by mid-year. The objective remains to complete the national smart meter programme in five years. Under the ESB's new strategic framework to 2020, the national smart meter programme will be financed under the ESB networks' multi-annual investment programme.

Smart metering has the recognised potential to deliver a range of benefits including increased energy efficiency, better demand management, reduced emissions, the enabling of micro generation and distributed generation and improved customer service. A cost effective smart metering system will therefore deliver tangible benefits to all consumers of electricity.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Does the Minister accept that is a vague answer in terms of what will happen? The elaborate structure he described does not answer the question I asked regarding when roll-out will commence or be completed. I understand the total investment will be in the region of €600 million, so it is very important that the matter is addressed properly.

What exactly will be provided to individual households? What capability will be provided by what is being called a "smart meter" and how smart will it be? Is the Minister aware, for example, of the concerns that smart meters will benefit the electricity company more than customers in that its control could be extensive? Will he indicate whether there will be a facility in the smart meter to resell energy to the grid through micro-generation? What exactly will the smart meter provide? We have never heard the answer to this question. What difficulties does the Minister envisage given the concerns expressed by one particular union and the other concerns which I presume would be expressed in regard to the redundancies that would arise from the fact we would no longer, for example, need meter readers?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The delivery in mid-year will be in July-August and there will be 25,000 meters in the first test phase. It is proper to do this before going to every single house in the country. We need a significant sample such as this so we can test which technologies we want to use and what level of intervention or complexity we need to apply.

It is right and proper that those details are worked out in the organisational structure I have just set out involving the regulator, the supply companies, the Department and Sustainable Energy Ireland. My instinct and my direction to them is to be as extensive and elaborate as possible in what we are trying to do. It is not just a meter such as one would have on a wall, as I have in my own house, which tells the customer how much electricity is being used at the time, although that is useful and gives a clear indication of exactly how much electricity is being used when turning on and off devices. However, we need to go beyond that to have the option of variable pricing so the householder may have the benefit of saying: "I will allow people to switch off devices in my property on the basis that I get a lower tariff because I will not be using electricity at the most expensive peak time." This is an evolution I would like us to avail of because it is the peak electricity supply that is the most expensive in terms of emissions as well as cost for the customer.

The Deputy is correct that it also allows benefits to the supply company, which is not a bad thing. There is a clearly defined gain at present in that it gives the supply company much greater control so it knows where its electricity is going and there is much less opportunity for people to take unpaid electricity off the grid. I see no reason to restrict this as it benefits consumers in the end.

We have already seen a change in the regulations to allow micro-generators to supply electricity back to the grid and to sell it within the grid. Those regulatory changes occurred at the end of November when the Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, published a paper recognising a change. The smart metering programme will facilitate and further that development of micro-generation.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Midsummer is in June. Will the Minister be specific as to what, when and where? We are talking about a €10 million investment for this year alone. We have seen many examples, such as with e-government and e-voting, where a lot of money was invested for experimental purposes and proved pretty disastrous. What precisely will be provided through this scheme? Where will it be provided and, in terms of the overall roll-out, what timeframe are we talking about?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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We are talking about mid-year. I will not tie people down to a particular date. Mid-year is satisfactory in terms of a timeline indication.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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This is out for tender.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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We are talking about 25,000 houses, the selection of which will be undertaken on a basis that gives a good statistical analysis of the country overall. It will be done by way of a test grouping which can be measured and which will have to reflect a range of different types of housing and different geographic circumstances. I have every confidence in the engineers in the ESB and other supply companies to deliver this. They are companies that have proven themselves——

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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What exactly are they delivering?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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To a certain extent, the detail of what is actually delivered is something that will be gone through in the test process. I will not pre-empt the work that is ongoing with CER, ESB and others to decide which meters they use and which functions they have. That is something which is being undergone at present by the committee to which I referred. As electrical engineers, they are best placed to come back to us with a selected product and test it——

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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When will they do that?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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It is an ongoing process of engagement on a range of different issues in terms of the meters, prices and the networks for which the customers pay.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We must move to the next question.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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There is a complex product on which I am confident our best energy people are now delivering.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Minister does not know.