Dáil debates
Wednesday, 9 April 2008
Order of Business
12:00 pm
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 19, statements on European Council, Brussels, and No. 18, Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed).
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the proceedings on No. 19 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply. The statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, shall be confined to the Taoiseach and the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who will be called upon in that order and who may share time, and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case. Immediately following the statements a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes. It is proposed that (2) the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) shall take place at 1.30 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 19, whichever is later, until 2.30 p.m.
Private Members' business, which shall be No. 27, Cluster Munitions Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed), shall conclude at 8.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal relating to No. 19 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal relating to the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) agreed? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Cowen, has been nominated and selected as leader of the Fianna Fáil Party and, I assume, Uachtarán Fhianna Fáil. I congratulate him on the unique honour that has been bestowed on him by his parliamentary colleagues and wish him the best of luck. We will have many opportunities to debate and discuss matters in this House and outside.
I was going to ask the Taoiseach when the Explosives Bill is likely to be produced, but that may not be appropriate today. Does the Taoiseach expect the Dublin Transport Authority Bill to be published shortly and to come before the House before this session ends in June?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Dublin Transport Authority Bill will be published in a few weeks.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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This must be an emotional day for the Taoiseach and listening to the tributes to the late former Member, Mr. Gene Fitzgerald, puts us all in a reflective mood. I wish the Taoiseach well when he stands down and wish his successor, Deputy Brian Cowen, all the best as leader designate of Fianna Fáil.
While the Taoiseach still holds his office and represents the north side of Dublin, I wish to ask him about transport matters, specifically the Dublin Transport Authority Bill. Dublin buses are barred from using the port tunnel, which means people from the Swords area can spend up to half an hour extra trying to get to work in the city centre.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should not use the Order of Business to make speeches about transport in Dublin. She should confine her questions to legislative matters.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The tunnel is open to private buses but the taxpayer paid for it. It is not open to the public bus service that is the major service provider for taxpayers. Will the Taoiseach address this matter with the Minister for Transport? I do not think solving this issue requires the enactment of the Dublin Transport Authority Bill. There has been much dawdling because various pieces of bureaucracy must be overcome. Will the Taoiseach address this matter before he leaves office?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Dublin Transport Authority Bill will be published in a few weeks' time.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach promised legislation relating to the Civil Unions Bill, which was due before the end of March. It is almost the middle of April and there is no sign of the Bill. What is the Government's position on the Civil Unions Bill?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is being prepared and is to be published, though I am not sure of the date for its publication.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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I wish the Taoiseach well. I refer to the criminal justice miscellaneous provisions Bill, which was brought up in the context of the criminal justice (forensic sampling and evidence) Bill. The Taoiseach mentioned yesterday that that Bill would be dealt with during this session but I wish to know when. The funeral of Mr. Mark Moloney is now taking place in Limerick and in light of this I want specific provisions dealing with gangland crime to be introduced under this Bill.
Gardaí in Limerick are doing excellent work but they feel their hands are tied. I ask the Taoiseach to introduce legislation that will allow gardaí to get exclusion orders from the courts when they feel individuals are involved in criminal activities and should be barred from specific areas of the city.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is dealing in specifics and I ask him to confine his contribution to a question on legislation.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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Gardaí need surveillance equipment also. When will this legislation come before the House because this should be a matter of urgency?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation will come before the House during this session.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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Everyone in the media is debating gangland crime but nothing is being done about it in this House.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach has answered.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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When exactly will this come before the House? "This session" could mean 3 July. This matter is too serious for such a vague answer and I ask the Taoiseach for a specific date.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach cannot give a date and has answered that it will come before the House during this session.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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Is this legislation not urgent enough to warrant a specific date for publication?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The heads of the Bill have been cleared and it went for drafting some time ago. It is due during this session.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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Can the Taoiseach not give a date? This issue should be prioritised and debated in the House.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Yesterday Deputy O'Donnell sought the adjournment of the Dáil under Standing Order 32 on a matter relating to the serious crime situation and the total breakdown of law and order, but the Ceann Comhairle did not consider it to be in order.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into this now as there are more appropriate methods for raising these matters.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Government's response so far has amounted to interviews from the constituency given by the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea, that are closer to reports from a war zone than a response to the issues involved.
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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This matter is important and I wish to raise it on the Adjournment debate in the House tonight.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That will be given consideration but I must enforce Standing Orders or we will be here all night.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Between pink sheets and white sheets, there is a total of 42 justice Bills. More legislation is promised by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform than by any other Department. Despite this, an independent committee appointed by the Government and the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. McDowell, reported this morning for the first time that Garda resources are insufficient to deal with the problem.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find a different way to raise that issue.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I ask you, a Cheann Comhairle, as well as the Taoiseach, to facilitate a debate in the House where the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform can present his appropriate plan of action, if any, to deal with this matter. I have submitted a private notice question to you for later in the afternoon. I beg your indulgence to allow these issues to be discussed.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter is not for consideration.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Week after week, every Tuesday, we come up to this House——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot go into the matter now.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is not present.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not matter.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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His colleague, the Minister for Defence, who is acting as more of a reporter on the sideline, is a player.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows he cannot go into that now.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I ask you, a Cheann Comhairle, to facilitate a debate under Standing Order 32, a private notice question or on the Adjournment, as requested by Deputy O'Donnell.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will look at that in the normal way.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On a similar subject, it transpires, having watched "Nightly News with Vincent Browne" last night that in some quarters it is believed that crime levels have dropped in this country.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot discuss that matter now.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am about to mention the legislation in two seconds.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Mention it now, please.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In view of the Government's lethargy in bringing forward the legislation on the pink sheet to combat the serious crime issue that exists in this country at present——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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What legislation is it?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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——would the Taoiseach consider it opportune to bring in detention for their own protection——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can only ask about promised legislation.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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——detention or protective custody for the people who are slaughtering each other on the streets at this moment?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question or is he making a statement?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have a question. I want to raise two other issues.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Ask the question.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The pharmacy No. 2 Bill has been around for some considerable time. The Minister for Health and Children is not in the House nor was she here yesterday and I do not know about next week. When will it be considered expedient to bring in that Bill in view of the ongoing concerns of the pharmacists and the damage being done to the whole structure of the provision of medicines for the general public?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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And the other legislation.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is promised legislation. Given that we have achieved international fame in terms of crime, legislation is promised under the white list to give legislative effect to certain provisions of the United Nations Convention on transnational organised crime. This is very appropriate in the Irish context when Irish gangland warlords are living abroad in the lap of luxury clearly with impunity. Will the Taoiseach indicate when that particular Bill is likely to come before the House as a response to the issue I have raised?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach on those two pieces of legislation. The Deputy has made his point.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The pharmacy No. 2 Bill is being drafted. I do not have a date for its publication. It is dependent on the implementation of the new Act on the development of the framework for the proposed Bill as the pharmacy group recommendations relate to the pharmacy service, the contractual matters and the development of that framework. The Bill will depend on how these issues evolve at HSE level.
On the criminal justice United Nations Bill, the examination of the legislative requirements which are not being dealt with in other Bills is ongoing with a view to including heads in an appropriate Bill. I think that Bill is some time away.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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In regard to No. 31, the merchant shipping miscellaneous provisions Bill, I ask the Taoiseach to use his intervention skills with his colleague the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, to introduce a training element to the Bill——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the content of the legislation.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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——to look at deckhands, mates engineers and qualified skippers who have been forced out of the fishing industry.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is for a Second Stage speech or an amendment.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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With a 16 week course they could be employed in the Merchant Navy, shipping freight and cargo shipping. We have the capabilities in the Marine Institute.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill will be published later this year.
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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It is an employment issue. It is actually a solution to this issue. We are highlighting the issue and we have the solution. I ask the Taoiseach to use his intervention skills.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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A number of other people here and in the media have referred to the need for new justice legislation particularly in regard to the situation in Limerick. A number of pieces of legislation which have been enacted but have not been commenced into law could make a real difference. The former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. McDowell, was always bringing in legislation that was going to solve these problems.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a specific question?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Yes. A juvenile justice Act, known as the Children Act, has been passed by the Oireachtas but has not been fully commenced into law. Particular elements of that Act would make parents responsible and bring them into court in regard to young people's activities. There is a real problem in Limerick with youngsters.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Guys as young as 14 years of age are carrying machine guns.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot make an exception for you, Deputy O'Sullivan.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I am sure I am entitled to ask when sections——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes but the Deputy is not entitled to a prologue.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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——of a piece of legislation, is already law, will be commenced into law so that young offenders can be dealt with and do not become hardened criminals which they inevitably will if this does not happen.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Taoiseach to respond in regard to the Children Act.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will have to check with the Department. It would help if I knew the particular sections because quite a lot of the Children Act has been implemented over a period.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach come back to me?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The recently published figures on the cost of nursing home care show a variance between——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No prologues or epilogues are allowed.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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——€750 and €1,450 on a weekly basis.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation is the Deputy referring?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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This is becoming unmanageable for several families. I ask the Taoiseach when the health long-term resident care Bill will come before the House.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will be this session.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Can he guarantee that it will come before the House before the summer recess?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I have a question on legislation and one on the programme for Government. I raised the designated land housing development Bill on the Order of Business some months ago and the Taoiseach assured me that legislation would include a provision to ensure that school sites are handed over in a more efficient and cost effective way by developers to local government. I now read in the most recent updated version of the legislative programme that this Bill is designed to provide for a use it or lose it scheme, which could be deployed by planning authorities on a selective basis to accelerate the development of appropriate land zoned for housing and to address the issue of land options. It appears to be a Bill designed to speed up housing development and there is no mention whatsoever of the provision of school sites as previously promised by the Taoiseach. Perhaps he will explain that or clarify his previous comments.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in this area?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The heads of the Bill have been approved. The Bill will be drafted but it will not be ready before the summer.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Does it include reference to the provision of school sites?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matter of inclusion is another day's work.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I ask the Taoiseach if we will have the chance to debate in the House the Cassells report, given the concerns in Cork.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for the Whips as the Deputy is well aware.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It can be put on the agenda of the House for the man sitting behind the Taoiseach, Deputy Tom Kitt. The Whip can perhaps organise it. That is the first point. A desperate problem has arisen in the region, which will no longer have a Taoiseach, in regard to building regulations and self-regulation. Has the Taoiseach any plans to ask the incoming Taoiseach to introduce legislation to bring to an end self-regulation? I appreciate the Taoiseach has answered a couple of questions on the transportation authority Bill. Is it possible that the current Minister, Deputy Dempsey, who is effectively stuck in a traffic jam in the Department of Transport for the past nine months and may be moving shortly——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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——when the man sitting beside the Taoiseach, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, is elevated, may not introduce that Bill at all?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the legislation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That legislation is due in a few weeks. What was the other Bill?
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Self-regulation by builders.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is that promised legislation?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have anything on that.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I raised the issue of management companies and their abuse of householders and the fact that there is no regulation for them previously. There are five pieces of legislation listed on the pink sheet for the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. One Bill, No. 15, seeks to provide for the establishment of a property services regulatory authority to give effect to the report of the auctioneering review group. I am very interested in that but, as far as I can see, it will have no effect whatever on management companies, certainly not with that title. We were told last week that there would be legislation this term from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on this matter. We were promised two other pieces of legislation, one from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the other from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. There is no sign of those two. All that seems to be on the horizon is a Bill to regulate auctioneers. We were promised this as a matter of urgency in the last term and were told those Bills would be coming forward but there is no sign of them. I ask the Taoiseach to find out from the Ministers what are their intentions and why they are not bringing forward the legislation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I mentioned this yesterday. A high-level interdepartmental committee, comprising all relevant Departments, is working on this. It covers at least three policy areas. The committee hopes to identify the legislative measures required with respect to the multi-unit development report of the Law Reform Commission. The area covers justice, environment and company law so it will take three measures to address it. The committee hopes to conclude its work shortly. It is a Cabinet committee with the Minister of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Attorney General. I understand three legislative measures will be required.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It is urgent because people are being ripped off.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Prior to the Taoiseach's departure, could he bring forward legislation to give legal footing to the plebiscite held in Dingle over one year ago?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no legislation promised in this area.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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There is legislation promised on the name change from An Daingean to Dingle-Daingean Uí Chúis. Two Ministers are throwing it from one to the other and, with all due respect to the Ministers, they would embarrass Hugo McNeill with their kicking for touch.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Dingle cannot dangle anymore.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not think there is legislation promised.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We cannot leave Dingle dangle.
Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Hugo McNeill would be embarrassed.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The main thing is that the ball lands in touch.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle was very lenient with Deputy Sheahan.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach alluded to the Cluster Munitions Bill. His colleague and namesake, the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, stated that he did not want to divide the House on the issue. I agree with him but it is within his power to decide not to divide the House.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Taoiseach to reconsider accepting our Bill before 8.30 p.m. The Government has received the kudos for banning investment of the pension fund into cluster munitions although it is not part of the motion.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Timmins should not mind the kudos.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I admire the Government spin doctors for getting the message out there. I am sure the Taoiseach will reconsider before 8.30 p.m.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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This is important to the Order of Business.
Deirdre Clune (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Broughan asked the Taoiseach about the Cassells report into the debt related to developments at Cork Airport. The Chief Whip indicated that there may be something happening in that area. Can we have an opportunity to discuss that?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot drift into that.
Deirdre Clune (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Chief Whip has something to offer, if the Ceann Comhairle will give him the opportunity.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sure the Chief Whip has something to offer but he can offer it elsewhere. We must move on.
Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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We will discuss it at the Whips meeting.