Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has discussed with the Competition Authority their submission to the Government's Alcohol Advisory Group that there should be no ban on below cost selling of alcohol; his views on such a proposal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8455/08]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Competition Authority made a submission to the Government alcohol advisory group last month and, subsequently, made it available on its own website. As the independent statutory agency responsible for the enforcement of competition law in the State, the authority is entitled to respond to public consultations. While I have not discussed the submission with the authority, I am aware of the opinions expressed therein. I do not consider it appropriate, however, to comment on the submission, as the advisory group is considering all submissions made to it. The authority is independent and I cannot interfere in its right to make submissions and so on.

The groceries order was not designed to tackle the issue of alcohol abuse, there is no evidence to suggest that it was capable of doing so and it was a wholly inappropriate mechanism by which to seek to control alcohol consumption. The order was not a ban on selling below cost. Rather, it prevented sale below invoice price. In effect, it prevented sale at a price that could be, and often was, considerably above cost. The re-introduction of a ban on below cost selling of alcohol will not result in the Government taking upon itself the power to set prices. Rather, it will take the power of setting minimum prices for alcohol away from one element of the supply chain, the retailer, and handing it to another element, the wholesaler. It will guarantee a margin to the retailer and the publican and, thus, increase the profits to be derived from selling alcohol. Promoting the profitability of alcohol undermines the objective of reducing consumption and also penalises the moderate drinker.

There is a perceived link between the abolition of the groceries order and increased alcohol consumption. However, statistics published by the World Health Organisation show that, apart from a slight dip in 1983, alcohol consumption, measured in litres per capita, increased from 4.83 to 11.23 between the period 1970 and 2001. The groceries order was in operation throughout that period and did not have an impact on this phenomenon. Since 2002, average consumption has decreased very slightly from 11.22 litres to 10.61 litres in 2005. Central Statistics Office figures indicate that the price of alcohol increased during the period from 1976 to 2006.

Combined, the WHO and CSO data clearly show year on year increases in alcohol consumption during a time when price control mechanisms were in place and when the price of alcohol also increased. Price control mechanisms have in the past failed to halt the increase in consumption.

I appreciate that the current level of alcohol consumption in Ireland is excessive and I am fully aware of the range of problems associated with excessive levels of consumption. I welcome the establishment of the Government alcohol advisory group, which is indeed timely, and I will work with my colleague, the Minster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to advance its objectives.

This is clearly an issue and we must focus on creating the best mechanisms to deal with the unacceptable manifestation of excessive alcohol consumption in our society.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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There are many aspects to this debate. I asked this question because I assumed the Department would be in discussion with the Competition Authority or one of its agents. I understand that the authority is independent.

The Minister may quote reports stating that the overall level of alcohol consumption has fallen but this is not the real issue. Certain people are influenced by advertisements for the bulk-buying of alcohol at below-cost price, which can encourage over indulgence and the abuse of alcohol. The issue is not the overall level of alcohol consumption but binge drinkers who cause problems at home, in families and on the street. There is much evidence to suggest that the abolition of the groceries order has facilitated the below-cost selling of alcohol. I understand that the groceries order was never meant to apply to alcohol but I was informed in a committee that the Minister was advised that this might be a byproduct of its abolition.

As I said two weeks ago, I believe this could be a case where common sense should take precedence over ideology. Perhaps the arrangements applying to alcohol, which allow big businesses to sell it cheaply, thereby encouraging its abuse through bulk buying, should be changed.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The issue of alcohol is multifaceted and the advisory group established by the Minster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is examining a range of issues. I took this opportunity to put the groceries order debate in context. Much alcohol is now imported and there are issues such as unit cost and selling price, which are provisions defined in legislation. There is significant difficulty in trying to identify costs and one runs the risk of facilitating the importation of cheaper brands of alcohol from overseas, which was happening prior to the abolition of the groceries order. Some of these brands have a higher alcohol content than the brands we are used to.

The advisory group has also examined the significant increase in the number of supermarkets, convenience stores and petrol stations with off-licences and the manner and conditions of the sale of alcohol products in such outlets, including below-unit cost selling and special promotions. It is looking at the number of special exemption orders, which permit longer opening hours, that are being obtained by licensed premises around the country and the use, adequacy and effectiveness of existing sanctions and penalties, particularly those directed at combating excessive and underage alcohol consumption. A range of issues will come under the remit of the advisory group.

I am open to debate on this issue but it is complex. The previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform banned happy hours, special promotions and so on in pubs. In my opinion there are issues we can deal with and under-age drinking and so on need attention.