Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting of the cross-departmental team on infrastructure and public private partnership; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31359/07]

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the most recent meeting of the cross-departmental team on infrastructure; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34025/07]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if there will be a review of the remit of the cross-departmental team on housing, infrastructure and public private partnership; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35283/07]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach when the cross-departmental team on infrastructure and public private partnerships will next meet; the number of meetings of the team planned for 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3544/08]

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Infrastructure and Housing last met; when the next meeting is expected [36124/07]

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to answer Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on housing, infrastructure and PPPs last met on 12 December 2007. The next meeting is scheduled for 12 March 2008. The Cabinet committee is supported in its work by a cross-departmental team of senior officials from relevant Departments. The role of the cross-departmental team is to identify and assist in progressing and resolving issues related to infrastructure planning and delivery, ensuring that they are adequately prepared for consideration by the Cabinet committee and, where necessary, by the Government.

The cross-departmental team last met yesterday morning; it normally meets on a monthly basis and is due to meet again on 4 March 2008. There are no plans to change its role.

As the House is aware, Cabinet committees are an integral part of the Cabinet process and questions as to the business of Cabinet or Cabinet committee meetings have never been allowed in the House on the grounds that they are internal to Government. This well-established precedent is founded on sound policy principles and the need to respect and uphold the constitutional protection of Cabinet confidentiality. Questions about specific issues dealt with by the Cabinet Committee or the cross-departmental team should be addressed to the relevant Minister.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is a recent addendum to the normal way the Taoiseach answers these questions by referring them to the line Minister.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I always answer that but the Deputy ignores it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have a concern about the provision of broadband. There is a serious decline in the construction industry, which is evident in and affects so many areas. There will be less money coming into local authorities from development charges. This means it will be difficult for local authorities to implement local authority programmes.

One of the fundamental criteria for the attraction and retention of industry is the provision of quality broadband. The Taoiseach is aware that only 15.4% of the population subscribes to broadband and that the average speed is only 3 megabytes. This is the third lowest speed of 35 OECD countries, with only Mexico and Turkey lower. Our speed is well below the OECD average of 13.7 megabytes. In France, it is 44 megabytes. I have travelled around the country like the Taoiseach and I have spoken to chambers of commerce, leaders in communities and businesses, and they believe this is sacrilegious. In many cases there is no connection and speeds are so far below the average European speed that it is impossible for them to compete. The Taoiseach is as interested as I am in attracting and retaining jobs. He should have the cross-departmental infrastructure team get the lead out and make a drive to deal with this issue. Deputy Simon Coveney produced a realistic set of proposals, launched two weeks ago, on the provision of broadband and progress to the next generation of capacity and communications. I suggest the Taoiseach should drive this on in his capacity as Taoiseach and as chairman of this cross-departmental group.

The Taoiseach referred to looking back on his years in the office. He could look back on many aspects of it. He stated that he would have preferred to have invested more in infrastructure. I agree with that. We are still short of school buildings. With the decline in the housing end of construction, could the Taoiseach prioritise the building of far more than 30 new schools? There is a reconstruction programme but there is a need for new school buildings. This is the key to the next generation. If the cross-departmental infrastructure team does not appreciate it, we have failed the young people in the primary school system.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have listened to the arguments of businesses on the matter of broadband. There are now 800,000 broadband subscribers in the country, including 90,000 mobile subscribers. At the end of September last year, that represented an increase of 81% on the previous 12 months. We may have had a slow start with broadband but it is clear that the market is growing rapidly. If we maintain the progress, it will become a strong market. Broadband penetration is 18.4 subscribers per 100 of the population, including mobile subscribers, not 15. We have narrowed the gap between Ireland and the OECD average dramatically. At the end of the third quarter of last year — the latest figures available to me — the OECD average is 18.8 and our rate, including new mobile subscriptions, is 18.4. Broadband is widely available at €20-€30 per month as the combination of competition and regulation is driving down prices. The most recent figures show us having the fifth cheapest entry levels for DSL prices in the EU 15.

In respect of telecommunications and broadband, where the markets fail, Government must act. I accept that and over recent years we have faced tough, risky decisions on telecommunications infrastructure. In the late 1990s, we recognised the need for fibre optic and the Internet cable connectivity between Ireland and other major international business centres, including the US, Europe and the Pacific Rim. We have been widely praised across industry and other groups for the investment made in 1999 in the global crossing and the connectivity project. I am sure Deputy Kenny has heard this praise. Although we were heavily criticised at the time, the analysis now is that it was an enlightened decision and the correct one.

It has been clear for some time that the private sector has failed to invest at the level necessary to keep pace with the demand for broadband. I have had meetings with the entire industry over the past few years. We made this clear to them and brought members of the industry together so that we would not get into playing one off against the other. I do not care who makes a profit — I just want them to do it.

I accept the point made by Deputy Kenny about speed. Speeds are improving everywhere and we must do the same. If they invest in this, they can do this very quickly. Direct funding has been provided under the national development plan for the backbone infrastructure. The regional broadband programme of the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources is addressing the infrastructural deficit by building high speed open access broadband networks in association with metropolitan area networks. The House is familiar with that aspect. A further 66 towns are scheduled to be completed by the end of this year, on top of those completed in the first phase of the programme.

Despite Government and private investment in broadband, it is recognised that there are areas of the country where the private sector is unable to justify the commercial provision of broadband connectivity. They make no bones about this when they tell me. The new broadband scheme will target the last 10% of the population who would remain without a broadband service without direct State intervention. When fully rolled out, all reasonable requests for broadband from houses and premises in unserved rural areas will be met. The procurement process for a new national broadband scheme is now in the competitive dialogue stage, with three short-listed candidates. The estimated timescale for the award of the MBS contract, about which I asked last night, is the summer. The roll-out of the service is due to begin as soon as possible, subject to agreement with the chosen provider. I understand there should not be a long delay in getting on with that. I suppose that means work will continue into next year but it will begin as soon as we have an operator.

I am also aware that the development of a world-class telecommunications sector is important for economic growth and the prosperity of the country. Deputy Kenny made that point. The migration to and the development of the next generation network will provide the necessary platform for the telecommunications sector. The migration to the next generation network is being considered by service providers and will generate many issues with wide implications for regulation, competition and investment in service delivery that need to be addressed. I am keen to see all stakeholders working together to ensure that Irish businesses and consumers have choice and that competitive products are offered. ComReg has established a next generation network forum and is working in partnership with industry.

The next progression for next generation networks is being considered by the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. His policy paper will be published next month. It will examine market developments and consider the optimum role for Government in the progression shift to IP-based next generation works. When that paper comes out it can be debated and discussed. That is an important paper for the next generation.

What is happening is good. We are rapidly catching up after a slow start. The last 10% of the national broadband scheme should be rolled out from this summer. The paper on the next generation networks, which is to engage the industry, will also be produced.

Deputy Kenny will appreciate that we made the right decision on schools in the last national development plan. It was my view that even though there might be a slowdown in the international economy we should not slow down the capital programme so we went the other way. We have an enormous capital programme for the six-year period of the national development plan. We are now in an investment position that is higher than that in any of the European countries. My belief on that is that this was the right thing to do because of an increase in population and because of the traditional deficit. This year alone we will spend €8.4 billion on investment and schools will get their fair share of that. Across the NDP we have pushed the boat out to the upper levels of investment, which is the first time it has ever happened in this country. Traditionally, in every decade we tended to retract in more difficult periods.

Last year in one form or another there were 1,600 school projects. There are 4,000 schools in the Republic so there will always be pressure for extensions. What happened this year was due to a rise in population in certain areas that was not known about as we used to know it based on the figures. What happened in Balbriggan this year was that those people did not show up on the register, which is quite extraordinary. There were more than enough school places but approximately 300 children turned up that were not known about. The same will happen next September. Tracking where these problems will show up is a big issue. That is a demand and it is taking up a large amount of resources from education where we are spending €600 million on a capital programme.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That remark deals with the planning system which should show up what is being built if the planning applications being carried through are monitored.

Will the Taoiseach inquire from the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources why the MANs system is not in operation, for instance, in my home base of Castlebar? A number of years ago the town was dug up, trenches were dug and ducting was laid but nothing was put in them. Businesses in the area cannot connect to a system.

In parallel with the national broadband scheme, to which the Taoiseach referred, do we have an audit of the areas around the country that will not get a physical connection in the foreseeable future? Parallel to that, can he guarantee that wireless connections will be available to them?

I respect the efforts that are being made to improve broadband access to put us well ahead of Turkey and Mexico, which are just behind us at the moment. Next generation access for the school system is absolutely critical. This was pointed out in the Coveney document. The recommendation was that the Government should invite the private sector to tender for the provision of high speed broadband to all those schools, not only so that young people can communicate around the world but that they are given the opportunity to meet the challenges that other countries are offering their young people. If the Taoiseach, I and everybody else are to be able to continue to set out a platform for the next generation, that is essentially where it will be. In the provision of broadband the schools business is absolutely critical. Next generation access, NGA, should be provided through a tender system from the private sector.

The provision of computers for schools has been a very worthwhile business but it is completely and utterly haphazard. There is no back-up system. If they break down there are no people there to fix them. There are different systems and different computers, some of which work very well but others that have not been used for months. Money was provided for computer rooms but no money was provided for computers. That is an issue the national infrastructure cross-committee could investigate and on which it could make an impact, not just for now but for the future. Schools no longer have walls. The key element of that is NGA for all those young people.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will raise both of those issues with the Ministers, Deputies Eamon Ryan and Mary Hanafin.

There is a map-chart of the 10% of areas that remain to be done and the State will have to undertake that. I do not claim to be an expert but the problem as I understand it is that some of those blackspots are a bit like the Black Valley in Kerry all those years ago.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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His name is up on the plaque there for the satellite. It worked for a while.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In the satellite.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As I understand it, some of the blackspots——

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Jackie was a black spot too.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is outside the church. I was down there on the bike.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——where the national broadband scheme does not work are also areas where wireless does not work. That is the difficulty so they have to operate some other technology. From meetings, I am aware the private sector shows no great interest in some of these areas for obvious reasons so it has to be done under the national broadband scheme. I do not want to get into the detail of the questions which the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, can answer, but what is important — it is no good saying it is easy — is to get the private sector to invest at the required level. That will involve the public and the private sector working together. Obviously one needs competition and choice and that is what the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, has been engaged in.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In the past ten or 15 years, as the Taoiseach regularly reminds us, this country has made huge economic progress. The degree to which the economy has grown and incomes and living standards have improved in the past ten to 15 years has been absolutely phenomenal. That is unprecedented in this country and in most other countries and it has been extremely welcome.

When one looks at international comparisons and the league tables that are carried out for different economies, one finds that on incomes, average incomes, GDP, etc. we are in the top ten, and that is great, but on competitiveness we do not do so well. We are beginning to slip. We are now lying in 22nd place internationally. On infrastructure we are in 49th place, which is way behind. Why is it that the bit of the economic equation for which the Government is directly responsible, namely, infrastructure, is the bit on which we are doing worst? Can the Taoiseach account for why that is after ten or 11 years of leadership of Government in that period?

We all know the traffic situation in Dublin is chronic. One of the things most people find frustrating is that the most minor accident anywhere in Dublin causes traffic gridlock. Before Christmas a truck jack-knifed near the East Link bridge and the traffic on the north and west sides of the city was completely screwed up for the entire day. There was a burst water pipe south of Bray and the entire M50 was shut down for seven or eight hours because nobody could move.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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A Minister was escorted down the middle of it.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Minister denies that. He thinks it was twilight. The car was seen in twilight hours and he denies that he was the occupant.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Heading home into the twilight zone.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach has dealt with that because the Minister has since been asked to make his own transport arrangements.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That was oil on troubled waters.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Does this infrastructure committee examine matters such as these traffic problems and the fact that such accidents stop traffic in Dublin? Is there a solution whereby the city need not close down every time there is an accident, such as when a truck jack-knifes?

On the construction issue, we are aware there is a significant drop in residential construction activity. What is the Government's strategy to shift constructive activity from residential to infrastructural activity? It seems that increasing numbers of building workers, including skilled workers, are becoming unemployed. I am coming across tradespeople who cannot get work. Since there is available capacity in construction, certainly on the labour side, is there a strategy to shift that to get the infrastructure built?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will not answer for the traffic committee of Dublin Corporation. I left that behind me 20 years or more ago so I will not deal with that. I was in Brussels last year when there was a three-car crash. Brussels has many highways and roads but that caused a six-hour closure of the entire city.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Was it Deputy Donie Cassidy who was driving on the wrong side of the road?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Was that where the Minister of State, Deputy Dick Roche, was going, to sort that out?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the more serious issues, Deputy Gilmore made a point on the national development plan. The answer, as he knows, is that 20 years ago this country was working on CSO figures which showed that by 2010 we would have a population of approximately 3.4 million if we were lucky, but we have ended up with a population of 4.3 million and going the other way — 1 million more people. Dublin Corporation and other councils worked on the basis that by 2010 we could have 1 million registered vehicles in this country, and while we are not there yet, we have 2.5 million vehicles. We were working on the basis that there might be 1.25 million people working but there are 2.25 million people working. These are the reasons and that is why we have had two successful national plans.

More has happened in the last national development plan and in this one than has happened since the foundation of the State. That is probably because we did not have the money, although the foresight of some of those generations might have seen that, rather than wholesale emigration, it might have been better to try some of the programmes, but they did not do so.

The current plan is an integrated and coherent one. It is a seven-year investment strategy that this Government has put together, like the last one we put together. It sets out a blueprint of economic and social development over its lifetime and it deals with the accompanying quantified investment programmes which aim to achieve high level objectives. It is a broad plan. It is the plan, as housing construction goes down, where we put in more money rather than less. We are developing the spatial strategy. There is the maintenance of a framework of macro-economic and budgetary stability, but we have addressed economic and social infrastructure, we have been supporting enterprise, we have been promoting social inclusion and looking at the all-island economy.

The plan costs €55 billion, which for a country of our size, even at this stage of development, is a massive programme. It is higher in percentage terms than those of any other European country because we need it. It is investment in economic construction. The plan commits us to spend €25 billion in human capital and will result in investment in education and training. A sum of €20 billion is provided for enterprise and €33 billion for social infrastructure.

Mention was made of what is happening in the areas of roads and infrastructure, such as sewerage and drainage. This is where most of the money is going. They all are good contracts, for the economic development of the country and the regions, whether for water, sewerage or roads, and for investment across the island such as the North-South investment structure to improve the road to Derry. It is helping the development of the island but is also good in employment terms. This year construction employment would be a far greater problem if we had not moved to provide those resources. It is helping private sector development in many areas where we have so many projects. We will continue that.

There are in the region of 135 roads projects in one form or another, apart from the considerable stretches that we are building. At last we have got to the stage of building long stretches of road. There are over 40 km in the stretch of road to Cork that will open shortly. There is the road to Athlone, the Carlow bypass, the Waterford bridge and the Waterford road. These are huge contracts, employing large amounts of people. This will drive economic development.

Whatever we do for the next few years, no matter how tight the economy gets, we should stick with that. It is only by doing that back-to-back as this Government and the previous Government have done that we will eventually get that deficit in infrastructure dealt with, but it is happening and we can see it all over the place.

If I was involved in Dublin Corporation's traffic planning committee, this would be one of the matters they would have to deal with. We must face up to what other cities are dealing sooner rather than later. If we are serious about emissions and congestion, we cannot continue the way we have been where everybody drives from A to B regardless, with no restrictions. That was all right when we had 500,000 vehicles, but we have 2.5 million now and the number is rising. We have a population of 4.3 million and we have 2.5 million registered vehicles. I am told with certainty by CSO that we will have 5 million people in 12 years' time. If the number of vehicles increases beyond 3 million, one cannot continue operating with "no entry" zones, particularly in Dublin and cities such as Cork, which is not much different. These are difficult decisions for the city fathers and they will have to be dealt with as they are being dealt with in other cities.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Picking up on that last point, the Taoiseach twice expressed a desire to be on the traffic committee of Dublin Corporation.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I used to be.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He is obviously planning a new future for himself. What exactly is he saying Dublin Corporation should be doing? Do I decode what he stated as a suggestion that Dublin Corporation should introduce a congestion charge, for example? Is that the import of what he stated?

Second, the traffic problem in Dublin is not confined to one local authority area. At the time the M50 ground to a halt over the burst water main in Bray, I recall making inquiries and finding that seven statutory bodies had responsibility of some kind or other for what was happening on the M50 — three or four local authorities, the Garda who are the traffic authority, the NRA and the Department of Transport.

This brings me to the question of what has happened with regard to the promise to introduce a Dublin transport authority. We have been waiting for legislation for this for some time. When Deputy Martin Cullen was Minister for Transport he said, in November 2006, that the Bill for the authority would be published by Christmas of that year. Will we ever see a Dublin transport authority or is it the Government's intention to leave it all to the traffic committee of Dublin Corporation?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I think that Bill will be in the House this session. If you ask me, other cities, for example, Paris, Rome and Athens, seem far more aggressive and have a range of plans, and we must do the same. The bus corridors that have been rolled out have been a success.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is right. We just need more buses on them.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are 100 more buses on them this year. The number of buses is increasing. The bus corridors have proved a success. They are opposed by many people in many places, but I have always supported them. Work has been done on the quays and the tunnel is the biggest engineering job we have completed. It has been highly successful, despite all the games played with regard to leaks and whether it would ever open. It has proved to be massively successful and we have heard little complaint about it since it opened because of that success.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It does not take tall trucks. No super trucks use the tunnel.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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They should never have been here in the first place. They should have been banned, as I said several times.

More imaginative proposals could be developed. There are very few park and ride facilities. In other cities these facilities are the norm and work well. Luas capacity will increase by 40% and we will have more trams. The trams we have on the red and green lines will be extended. The work on Broadstone is going ahead, as is the metro to Swords. The line to Lucan is also going ahead. There is significant infrastructure plans and all those working together will make and are making an enormous difference.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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When will we have them? The Taoiseach has been in every position, from mayor of Dublin to Taoiseach. Why do we not have them?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are happening. The Deputy is worried about a car breaking down. However, I remind the Deputy his party was outside the gates of Leinster House criticising Deputy Mary O'Rourke and me about the Luas and saying it would never happen.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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No, we were not.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We were criticising the Government for not doing it.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I never heard the Opposition Deputies say how great it was when it was set up. The metro line is now being planned. We are putting billions into infrastructure and things are happening for the first time ever. There are improvements also on rail lines and we now have an hourly train to Cork and Belfast and an improved service to Sligo. We should acknowledge the incredible improvements made rather than worry. If the Deputy is so worried about——

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What about congestion charges?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are many proposals. I will talk to my councillors and let Deputy Gilmore talk to his. If they use some——

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What does the Taoiseach mean by that? I asked about congestion charges.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is that the only issue? I think there are excellent proposals.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I asked the Taoiseach to clarify whether that was what he meant.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it is not. I said I thought we should consider some of the imaginative proposals other cities operate.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Such as.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a range of them, such as park and ride facilities.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We can have a chat about that later with the Taoiseach.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Park and ride facilities are vetoed by local authorities.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Park and ride facilities are allowed. I fought for such facilities 20 years ago. I fought for the one in Whitehall then and it is about the only one that works well.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach should travel the Clonsilla line and see what it is like.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach revisit the terms of reference of the cross-departmental team in order to place a greater emphasis on its responsibility to address the issue of housing? We have addressed this team and its remit on many occasions and there is, understandably, a significant concentration on infrastructure and public private partnerships, but the housing element, which is a component in the title of the committee's responsibility, is rarely addressed in detail. I raised this issue previously. I am particularly keen to know whether the cross-departmental team has taken the opportunity, or will, with new emphasis on the need to do so, address the report published last month that claimed there were 40,000 vacant apartments in the city of Dublin. I do not accept that claim, but nevertheless it was made and it has not been repudiated, examined or rejected and the factual position has not been established.

Does the Taoiseach see a role for the cross-departmental team in addressing that report and putting the factual position on the record? Does he see a role for the team in enhancing the whole policy area in relation to the delivery of social and affordable housing through the local authority system, where we have 43,000 families, family units or individual senior citizens waiting on the respective waiting lists. That equates to approximately 100,000 people, which includes family units, some consisting of several people, so 100,000 is a conservative number.

Does the Taoiseach accept there is, perhaps, a further role for the cross-departmental team in revisiting the outworking of Part V of the Planning and Development Act 2000? I wonder what the Taoiseach's view is on this. If implemented as originally announced by the former Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey, and if the original intent was adhered to, Part V would have made a significant contribution towards addressing the social housing need throughout the State, but, sadly, as amended, it has failed to live up to the original expectation. What is the Taoiseach's position in that regard and does he believe the cross-departmental team has a role and function in revisiting the factual outworking of Part V over the period since?

There is, understandably, great concern at the situation where many young couples have taken out 100% mortgages in order to access a home of their own, and these are dependent on a dual income. As a result of the steady series of increases in European Central Bank interest rates, many couples have found themselves in a very difficult financial situation and, in a contracting market, a negative equity now, perhaps, applies to these properties. Does the Taoiseach agree that the cross-departmental team should also address this issue? There is real concern in that regard. If the situation becomes more grave, we will see an ever-increasing spiral of repossessions. Already the indication is that there is a significant increase in that area. Does the Taoiseach share my concern in that regard and does he believe it is a matter that the cross-departmental team should address?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a large number of questions there. On the provisions under the NDP, the cross-departmental team and officials in various Departments deal with these issues on an ongoing basis. All the issues raised by the Deputy are included in that.

The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has estimated that the housing needs of 140,000 households are to be met through the housing programme of the NDP. Investment under the housing programme will total €21 billion, €18 billion of which is in direct housing provision, including the rent supplement issue. That covers different sub-programmes, including social housing provision and renewal, affordable housing and targeting of housing supports. The housing sub-programme allocation will fund the provision of 60,000 new units over the period of the plan.

The financial framework in the affordable housing and targeted private housing sub-programme will result in 40,000 households benefiting from affordable housing. It is estimated a further 40,000 households will be assisted mainly by availing of vacancies in existing stock and through households transferring to the rental accommodation scheme from rent supplement under the contractual arrangements. Every year under the plan large amounts of investment are being put in. There is effective use of the resources which stand, as I said, at €18 billion. There is a new scheme to support social housing tenants seeking home ownership, the incremental purchase scheme for the sale of flats and the reformed grant scheme to adapt housing to meet the needs of older people or those with disability. Resources are provided to sustain the communities fund to support regeneration processes and tackle anti-social behaviour and there is new legislation to support the social housing reform programme and the use of land. On the quality of social housing stock, almost €2 billion is to be spent on housing renewal and sustainable community planning.

On Part V of the Planning and Development Act 2000, the Deputy will recall the arguments and debates on that and the pressure from all sides in this House to do something about it. From the position six years ago, when just 46 homes were delivered, output has continued apace. Last year 1,007 affordable homes and 531 social homes were delivered during the first nine months under Part V. During the last quarter of the year it is expected a significant number of the 6,000 units under construction will be completed, surpassing the previous year's total. On predictions of future output under Part V, all the planning systems that have gone out of the system are necessarily subject to uncertain variables but include the volume of housing development and planning permissions granted. More than 5,400 homes were in progress at the end of September and 2,600 further homes are proposed under Part V. The situation has changed. Developers have transferred 99 acres of land to local authorities under Part V and 388 partially or fully serviced sites have been transferred to local authorities. Just under €80 million has been paid in lieu of land. Considerable development has happened under Part V, all of which has been helpful and progressive.

On the 40,000 supposedly vacant apartments, I saw the report and I asked the officials about it; some developers and builders said it was the reason housing numbers would drop this year and some said as many as 100,000 houses lie vacant. I have asked that this be examined. The calculations included summer houses, which are not occupied in the winter, and flats or apartments used by students in college in Dublin, who are not there all the time. Therefore that figure is nonsense. I asked for the best estimate on the Dublin figure and the national figure and people were slow to give me a figure. They said that if they took in everything they could see, it could perhaps be 20,000 nationally, but they would not stand over that figure.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There are 100,000 people on the housing list.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Those figures were grossly overstated. Although I cannot be certain about the figure of 20,000, the number is nothing like the figures mentioned.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The point of the various questions I posed to the Taoiseach was whether the cross-departmental team is giving sufficient attention and time to housing provision. I refer particularly to social housing, not the statistics on private house provision. I again ask the question. Does the Taoiseach believe there is a requirement to revisit the remit of the committee to lay greater emphasis on the housing responsibility of the cross-departmental team? In this Chamber the concentration is invariably on other matters and I have seen references to this cross-departmental team from Government, the Taoiseach, his Department and Opposition voices that do not mention its responsibility to address housing. Does the Taoiseach believe sufficient time is being given to address the matters I have raised, and others on which we have not had the opportunity to reflect today, and will he lay greater emphasis on it and indicate to the House that such is his intent?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are out of time. I call Deputies Naughten and Coveney.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I would like to ask the Taoiseach about his comments on planning in Balbriggan and the point that he had no idea of numbers. Is the Department of Education and Science represented on the infrastructural educational committee? I understand it is not. Does the Taoiseach believe the Department should be represented on that committee? Many rural schools are being left high and dry because resources are going into the Dublin area.

The Taoiseach said the broadband market is growing but the key issue is accessibility and availability. The MANs project is being shelved for 15 months for towns such as Castlerea and Boyle. Have discussions taken place, or will they take place, between the three Departments of Transport, Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Communications, Energy and Natural Resources on trying to bring the semi-State broadband networks together under one operator to provide the type of competition needed and ensure we can have accessibility throughout the country?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The cross-departmental team on infrastructure is the ideal place to examine the challenges we face on broadband connectivity because it involves so many Departments. On the Taoiseach's answer on broadband, for clarity purposes, international connectivity for Ireland was dramatically enhanced by the Global Crossing project, and that was welcome. However it is still far cheaper to send data from Amsterdam to New York than from Dublin to New York. We should not sit back and pretend the global crossing project back in 1999 solved all our problems. We need further investment in that and there are opportunities at which the Government should look.

The national broadband scheme will have to deal with up to 15% of the country rather than 10%. There is much scepticism on whether it will be viable in competition law for some parts of the country where it needs rolling out as well as the issues the Taoiseach has identified. The key issue for the cross-Departmental committee is to try to put a plan in place that will allow the Government to subsidise the private sector to roll out next-generation broadband with the speeds required without interfering with natural competition.

In the policy document we launched two weeks ago we tried to indicate how that can be done. It is primarily about helping to fund open-access ducting to carry fibre optic cable that will upgrade a primarily copper infrastructure from people's houses to the kerb side to the exchange, which is the key section of infrastructure that needs to be upgraded. It does not make financial sense for many of the companies involved, predominantly Eircom, to do that because of the numbers of houses and businesses involved, which is why the State needs to subsidise that key piece of infrastructure between the kerb side and the exchange in particular. I ask the Taoiseach and the cross-departmental committee to examine our suggestions, which have been made in a non-political way as a proactive attempt to deal with the issue rather than setting up more fora and consultations processes, which is what the Minister continues to do on broadband.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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To deal with Deputy Ó Caoláin's question on housing, we have meetings that just deal with the housing issue. That happens a number of times a year. The same happens in education, where there are meetings dedicated to educational issues. They would not normally be at the other meetings.

On the national broadband scheme, I am told it is 10% of the country. I am not arguing about whether that is the case but it is important that the roll-out is ongoing and the scheme is in place. I gave details earlier about the NBS contract and the work from July. I do not disagree with Deputy Coveney's point. By the way, I was not saying that the Global Crossing contract would have sorted it out but it was, at the time, advanced. In fact, had we continued along that line, perhaps we would have built on it but there was so much criticism at that time about it generally, not politically. There are good opportunities for companies and the private sector in this area and, obviously, we must work with them. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, is involved in that process. Deputy Coveney's paper is helpful and constructive. The Minister's policy paper will be published next month and will examine market developments.

It is important to note that Eircom, one way or another, is important in this regard because of the assets it holds. Eircom's discussion document, which was submitted to the Minister, addressed a number of issues relating to the future provision of broadband, including the proposal to structure its network into separate wholesale and retail arms. As a private company, Eircom is entitled to separate ownership of the company into two different entities, provided the regulatory operations are dealt with. Any further engagement with Eircom will be on the basis of exploring how any changed ownership structure will impact on investment, particularly on the evolution of the next generation of broadband. Eircom is a major part of that process.

From the State's point of view, we must deal with the issue of competitiveness and how to get the other companies linked in. To have this done quickly, we need a plan, which hopefully we will have next month, that takes on board the views of the various companies. We need those companies to work with the State and to work together. I believe, having listened to many presentations and spoken to representatives of the companies, that if there was connectivity and co-operation between them and us, we could make progress very quickly on the issue of speed. In fairness, as companies, they are all prepared to invest. It is a question of getting them to work together. Unless we sort out the competition and rivalry issues, because there are a lot of companies in the market now, we will not make as much progress as we would like. The Minister is working hard, trying to get them to co-operate with one another.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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What about starting with the semi-State sector?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but it is similar to the schools issue which Deputy Kenny raised earlier. The success of this is now in the hands of the private sector, whether we like it or not. We must deal with these private sector companies, with the investments and plans they have, and try to pull those plans together. The discussion document next month deals with that and aims to make real progress. That is the challenge.