Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources for being present. It is not that often that Ministers appear in the Chamber to answer questions directly. He should not be too intimidated that four Members on this side have all raised the same matter.

The Minister will be aware that this has become a major political issue in three counties. The purpose of our raising it is to establish the Government's approach to it. We are getting conflicting messages from senior Ministers in respect of that approach. At an Oireachtas committee meeting last week, the Minister stated that he does not have a role in directing Eirgrid to do anything, that this matter falls within the company's remit and not his and that it is its responsibility to build a North-South interconnector. He also stated that Eirgrid would also be obliged to undergo the process relating to consultation and planning but that, outside of this, he does not have a role to play.

At the weekend, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, who happens to represent the constituencies concerned, called for the interconnector to be laid underground. He even suggested that he had obtained advice from the National Roads Authority, NRA, on the feasibility of the interconnector being laid underground adjacent to the route of the M3 motorway. A number of weeks ago, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, scoffed at the idea that this item of infrastructure could be laid underground. He dismissed the idea as being far too expensive and stated that it should not be even considered.

Will the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources outline the Government's direction to Eirgrid on this issue? The Fine Gael position is clear. For more than three months we have been stating that a debate should take place following the compilation of an independently commissioned and paid for study. We could at least begin the conversation with credible and independent facts detailing whether it is possible to put a 400 kV line as part of new grid infrastructure underground, overground or partially underground.

I hope the Minister will tonight announce that his Department will sponsor such a study so we can have an informed and educated debate on what is possible.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak to this important issue and I thank the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, not only for coming here but for listening to us at the meeting of the Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources last Tuesday.

Few issues apart from the Monaghan General Hospital matter have caused as much anger and annoyance as the proposed new power line to come across Meath, Cavan and Monaghan. It is vital we get an answer tonight on whether the Government or EirGrid will pay for a totally independent person or company to give us a true indication of whether it is possible to place this power line underground, and if it is, at what cost. The Tánaiste and Minister for Finance has already suggested it would cost at least ten times as much to place the line underground as it would overground. Others have used even wilder figures. It is interesting that the local Minister in County Meath, Deputy Noel Dempsey, has stated that the line must go underground and should be put along the M3 motorway. If ever there was a clear indication of the lack of Cabinet cohesion or joined-up thinking, that is surely it.

Why could this line not have gone either along the coast or through County Louth, where the land would be much more flat and less difficult to deal with? One must question where the responsibility lies. Does it lie with the Minister for Communications, Energy and National Resources, the board of EirGrid or both? One cannot forget the board of EirGrid was mostly appointed by the then Minister responsible for this area, Deputy Noel Dempsey.

People are clearly worried for many reasons, with health of major importance. There are so many so-called experts in this field that is difficult to know the facts. The land over which the line would go, and that adjacent to the line, would clearly be frozen and be beyond consideration for industrial and private premises. The property of some people will not even be eligible for compensation if EirGrid uses its significant financial backing to try to buy out individuals.

I beg the Minister either to agree to fund an independent study himself or ensure EirGrid does so immediately. This is clearly the first of many proposed lines by EirGrid throughout the island of Ireland and if we can get this one right, with a realistic and common sense approach, it will ease the way for all other projects to be moved forward. This is important for the sake of better power structures.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Minister is here as it demonstrates he is at least open to debate on this subject. I have some quick comments because we are very short on time.

I will not enter the health debate in this matter as we will have it another day. People have serious health concerns about this project nonetheless. Neither the Government, EirGrid nor anybody else can guarantee everybody will be safe with these lines. Conversely, nobody can say that lives are in danger, as neither side can provide proof. I cannot point to a child anywhere in the world who died because of magnetic fields, although there are reports that raise serious doubts. EirGrid cannot state that the power lines are safe either. We owe it to the people to check every possibility before we spend taxpayers' money putting this line over their heads.

A person speaking on radio recently implied that he advised the Italian Government years ago that it was okay for four or five children to die over a 20 or 30-year period. That person claimed to be speaking in regard to EirGrid and should be sacked on the spot for saying such things. It is not acceptable.

All we are asking is that the Minister should check the matter. It is possible, using modern technology, to go underground. Private companies have built such lines underground very cheaply in Estonia, South America and Australia. I accept that companies such as EirGrid across the world do not want to take the option of going underground. They do not want to even consider it, for whatever reason. These companies should be forced to consider the option so we can have a proper debate.

EirGrid's claim that it will cost ten times as much to put the line underground is an untruth. The company does not know what that would cost, so it cannot make such a claim. For EirGrid to stand in front of the people of Meath and argue it is not possible to go underground is also a lie. It is not good enough that a State company is telling mistruths when the issue involves people's health and their community.

EirGrid is an arm of Government, so this Government — including the Minister and his Department — has a duty to check out the issues, including new technology and proper costs. We should have a real discussion on the matter. I have spoken to representatives of companies who can put this line underground for nearly the same price. That is not five times or ten times the estimated cost. We should at least consider such options. If the project went to tender, companies would offer to put the line underground for a cheaper price than EirGrid's estimate for over the ground. The Minister should at least consider these options.

Shane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Like my fellow Deputies, I appreciate being given the chance to speak and it is good that the Minister is here. I have been in the Dáil for three years but I have not enjoyed anything as much as the meeting we had last week in committee.

We know plans for Ireland's energy over the next 20 years must be put in place and we cannot depend on oil any longer. That we are in a position to provide so much energy of our own, and even become an exporter of energy, is crucial to the programme set in front of us by the Minister. The last comment I made to the Minister at our meeting asked him to take control of this issue as a Minister outside the three counties who knows there are 20 other programmes of this type to go into place. Neither the Minister nor any other Deputy wants what we have in our counties.

EirGrid has not been straight with the people and it has tried to railroad us. Our local Minister spoke last week for votes and was not very genuine about the matter. It is only three months since he told the people in County Meath, when they first went to him, that this matter would never even be discussed in the Dáil or at Cabinet level. He was wrong and it was wrong of him just to go for votes last week when he spoke to the Sunday Business Post. It was a stupid action and the people of Meath definitely did not fall for it.

I will back the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to the hilt and he has the full backing of the Irish people for his programme. However, he should not try to put it through without giving us a proper price. Everyone knows it is not a case of €1.8 billion versus €180 million. ESB International carried out its own study on the matter and somebody should look at it. The people employed by ESB International are quite surprised at the new technology that will help to bring down the cost of this project.

Before the people descend on this city in their thousands, the Minister should give them what they are entitled to, a price on overground versus underground projects. He can then sit down with these people, and as I previously stated, he will be pleasantly surprised by the co-operation he receives. If the Minister does not do this, we will still be looking for oil at $150 a barrel ten years down the road.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I thank the four Deputies for raising this issue, which is rightly the subject of extensive debate, both here and in the Oireachtas committee where the discussion has already started. It is part a broader discussion which is of vital national importance. This is the need to ensure our electricity transmission system is adequate to meet current and future electricity demand and how we can deliver on the critical infrastructure required to meet this need.

The Government's overriding policy objective is to ensure energy is consistently available at competitive prices with minimal risk of supply disruption in order to meet the needs of businesses and domestic customers. The availability of a reliable, secure and competitive electricity supply requires ongoing investment in transmission and distribution networks. The Government's White Paper on energy policy commits to the development of Ireland's electricity transmission and distribution network to meet current and future electricity demand.

There are currently approximately 6,000 km of high voltage electricity lines in Ireland, of which 439 km are 400 kV lines. Development of the electricity grid will require further investment in transmission and distribution lines. EirGrid plc is a State-owned company which has responsibility for operating the electricity transmission system in Ireland and the wholesale electricity trading system. It delivers connections, transmission and market services to generators, suppliers and customers using the high-voltage electricity system. EirGrid is also responsible for the development of a transmission system which comprises the high voltage lines.

As part of its ongoing grid development programme and in line with the Government's energy White Paper, EirGrid is currently planning the construction and reinforcement of the transmission system by means of constructing a number of transmission lines, including the North-South line, the Meath-Cavan line and the proposed East-West interconnector.

The new transmission lines are very important to the north-east region. They will bring critical infrastructure to the region, that is, the power lines will help ensure the delivery of high quality and highly reliable services. The new lines will also facilitate competition as part of the all-island electricity market, and will ultimately supply the needs of new householders and commercial customers who have connected in recent years.

The existing transmission lines in the region are expected to reach full capacity over the coming years. If they are not upgraded the electricity supply to the area will eventually fall below the specification required by many industrial and service companies when deciding on local investments. Specifically, the new lines will help ensure a future secure supply of electricity throughout the north east, facilitate cross-Border sharing of electricity, assist in promoting better competition and thereby reduce electricity costs, facilitate increased connection of renewable energy, upgrade existing electricity supplies and facilitate inward investment into the region.

The North-South 400 kV transmission line will more than double the current power transfer capacity between the North and the South. This new line will span approximately 80km and will extend from Cavan to Tyrone. It is being undertaken in co-operation with Northern Ireland Electricity. The line will be routed from a proposed new sub-station near Kingscourt in County Cavan, through County Monaghan and onwards to County Tyrone.

Linked to this North-South transmission line are plans for the upgrading of the existing transmission system in Meath and Cavan through the building of a new 400 kV transmission line between Woodland, County Meath, and Kingscourt, County Cavan. This line will be a further 58 km long and will reinforce the power system in the north east, facilitating competition and securing supplies of power for all customers.

As the Deputies are aware, EirGrid has proposed three possible route corridors for both projects and published these three routes in October 2007 as part of its public consultation process. EirGrid's aim is to select a final route in early 2008, following the consultation process, and then to submit a final proposal to An Bord Pleanála.

Last month, I secured the agreement of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to hold a series of meetings on transmission line infrastructure generally, with a view to providing an appropriate and constructive forum in which public representatives could debate issues around transmission line infrastructure and address concerns about specific projects. I am glad to see members of the committee here tonight to discuss the matter further and hope they have active and positive engagement with EirGrid when the committee meets tomorrow morning. The first meeting of the committee was held on 29 January, at which the Department's chief technical adviser provided an overview of the recent all-island grid study and options for the development of Ireland's electricity grid over the medium to long term. EirGrid will address the committee on the specific Cavan-Tyrone and Meath-Cavan proposals tomorrow.

In response to public concerns and the convening of the Oireachtas committee meetings on the issue, EirGrid will tomorrow publish a briefing document on the relative costs and technical issues surrounding overhead versus underground options for transmission lines. I hope this will facilitate tomorrow's discussion further. EirGrid is also preparing a detailed consultants' report on the issue for the purposes of its application to An Bord Pleanála for planning permission for both projects.

In any consideration of the underground versus overground issue, it needs to be borne in mind that we are not just talking about the proposed new lines from Cavan to Tyrone and from Meath to Cavan, but a whole programme of investment in new lines and upgrading of existing transmission lines. That is why I asked the joint committee to address the issue in the context of transmission infrastructure generally.

The building of these transmission lines is an operational matter for EirGrid, which has the statutory function to plan the high-voltage transmission network. The construction of transmission lines is also subject to the rigours of the planning process. I have no direct role in relation to routes and planning of lines.

As EirGrid plans to publish tomorrow a briefing document on the relative costs and technical issues regarding overhead versus underground options for transmission lines, it may be more appropriate to wait until tomorrow to discuss the merits or otherwise of each option. I have, however, been previously advised by EirGrid that there are many reasons why they opted for overhead lines in these two projects. EirGrid informs me that 97% of Europe's high voltage transmission network is carried by overhead lines and that underground is generally only used for short distances. Sub-sea cables have different operating characteristics and are not necessarily appropriate to land-based transmission systems. The reasons put forward by EirGrid for preferring overhead lines include technical feasibility and ongoing technical requirements for operation of transmission lines, the requirement in any underground AC transmission system to return above ground on average approximately every 20-40 km for system re-balancing, involving the construction of overground substations, the length of time required to identify and repair faults, and the significant impacts of such delays where entire regions depend on the transmission line operation, the increased costs of building and maintaining underground networks, and environmental impacts associated with construction and maintenance of underground cables. Noting public concerns in relation to overhead lines, EirGrid also says that it has endeavoured to keep as far away from communities and houses as possible, with a minimum of 50 m clearance.

The overhead versus underground routing of transmission lines has also been raised in the context of health concerns. I am advised that EirGrid complies with all authoritative international and national guidelines on electromagnetic fields, EMF, exposure and notes that despite extensive worldwide research, no conclusive evidence has been found that extremely low frequency EMF exposure is harmful to public health. In response to the concerns that have been raised, however, EirGrid has recently engaged an internationally renowned expert in this field to provide advice on the many queries it has received about EMF exposure. This expert, Professor Michael Repacholi, was previously radiation specialist with the World Health Organisation. The committee may wish to call on Professor Repacholi to address Oireachtas representatives on this issue at their next meeting, after they meet EirGrid.

In planning for the two projects in the north east, EirGrid has engaged in public consultation in the region. Public open days have been held in each of the three counties, Meath, Cavan and Monaghan, meetings have been held with groups of residents and individuals, a telephone information line and e-mail service have been set up, advertisements have been placed in local newspapers and on local radio, and information is available on EirGrid's website. I expect that tomorrow EirGrid will make available the briefing note it has prepared on underground and overhead transmission line issues. This should enhance the information available to public representatives and to local residents.

I am at all times keen to ensure an open and frank debate on issues of public concern and have engaged with representatives of all parties, including my Government colleagues, who have briefed me fully on public concerns about these particular projects. I am mindful that the issue of underground versus overhead lines is not one which is confined to these two projects. I have already taken the initiative in facilitating a broader public discussion on the issues through the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and I welcome the active and constructive engagement of my Oireachtas colleagues on this matter.

I am sure that tomorrow's meeting with the committee will provide a further opportunity for EirGrid and public representatives to address important issues around transmission line infrastructure and in particular the overhead and underground line issues. I will continue to facilitate and encourage active debate on all of the issues, to ensure a better understanding of the technical, economic and environmental aspects to transmission system development. To this end, I have written to the Chairman of the Oireachtas joint committee committing my Department to a further supportive role in this area. I believe that the Chairman will make these details available to the committee tomorrow. Out of courtesy to him, I will allow him to make known what should be the Department's further role and what further action we intend taking to assist this debate. Ultimately, our electricity grid will need to be upgraded and expanded if we are to continue to stimulate economic growth, meet current and future electricity needs, and facilitate greater integration of renewable energy. This is a shared goal, and we need to work together to strive for consensus and understanding of the optimum way forward.