Dáil debates
Thursday, 31 January 2008
Order of Business
10:30 am
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 11, statements on the reports of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights relating to violent incidents arising from the conflict in Northern Ireland, Barron reports, resumed.
Private Members' business shall be No. 25, motion re confidence in the Mahon tribunal, resumed, to be taken immediately after the Order of Business and to conclude after 90 minutes.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are no proposals to be put to the House. I call on Deputy Bruton.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The House will have seen the tragic case of the Ó Cuanacháin family who now face a legal bill of €5 million following their attempt to pursue the rights of their child through the courts. Eight years on after the idea of a Bill to provide education provision based on the needs of an individual was introduced in the Dáil, we still do not have an appeals mechanisms through which parents who feel their needs are not met by the Department can appeal without going to the courts. How can a Government stand over a situation where no appeals mechanism is in place which can be utilised by families?
Yesterday, the outgoing Taoiseach indicated that a Bill being introduced to the House should have two weeks before it is debated on Second Stage. The would-be incoming Taoiseach is telling us that we will have two working days before the Finance Bill is to be considered by the House. Is that an indication that the Bill is so light that we do not need to give it serious consideration?
Johnny Brady (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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What about the outgoing Leader of the Opposition?
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Has the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance decided to foreshorten any proper debate on tax options?
Confusion has been created as to whether the provision of a tax clearance certificate is the same as an application for one. Will the Tánaiste clarify, or make provision in the Finance Bill in order that it is clarified, that individuals who apply for a tax clearance certificate have not fulfilled their requirements and no person can simply on application for a tax clearance certificate present himself or herself as being tax compliant?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste on the Finance Bill. The other matters are out of order.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Of course they would have to be out of order.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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On secondary legislation we are entitled to know whether section 36 of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act 2004 has an appeals mechanisms in place. Surely that is an issue of secondary legislation that we are entitled to know about.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, unfortunately the issue is whether it is promised legislation. In this instance I am not aware of legislation being promised——
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The tradition has been that secondary legislation has been raised on the Order of Business——
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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——and we have received replies on it. If the Minister is unable to reply, the tradition has been that one would be provided later under separate cover.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is correct when legislation is promised. The Tánaiste on the Finance Bill.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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It has been promised.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have called the Tánaiste.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, I have raised an issue promised by the Government that is not in place. Tradition and precedent suggest I am entitled to an answer on the matter. The Ceann Comhairle is seeking to disallow my right to get an answer.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will let the Tánaiste answer it as promised. I am not aware of it.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Thanks very much.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The specific matter relating to education policy would be best dealt with in terms of accuracy and informed comment by a parliamentary question being tabled to the line Minister. A comprehensive reply on the up-to-date position——
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The answer is there is no provision for appeals.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Does Deputy Bruton wish to answer the questions as well as ask them this morning?
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Will the Tánaiste at least answer him first anyway?
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is getting like the Taoiseach.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Ó Cuanacháin case, which has been deliberated on by the courts, will be studied by the Minister for Education and Science and the Government. The efforts made to assist families with autistic children and to provide them with a mainstream education is a policy area upon which there have been many developments and many resources applied. One has great sympathy in such a situation, particularly for the parents of this family with the recent outcome in the courts. However, we must respect the outcome of the courts which have interpreted the law in this area. A parliamentary question to the Minister would provide——
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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No appeals mechanism is in place and the family in question is faced with a €5 million legal bill because it had to go the courts.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is happy to see them sell their house.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There have been many developments in the area of the rights of people with disabilities such as the Disability Act. Important measures and many resources have been applied such as resource teachers and special needs assistants.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not raising the whole gamut of policy.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The point I am making is that on the specific answer the Deputy requires to his question, tabling a parliamentary question would be the best way of eliciting the necessary information. That is my answer to the Deputy's question.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It means the Tánaiste does not know what reply to give.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Finance Bill will be published later today. It relates to many issues that have already been announced in the Budget Statement which the Deputy has been able to study since 5 December 2007. There are other issues in addition to these but that is the normal position with the Finance Bill. It will be debated next week.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Two days of deliberation before a Second Stage debate is abnormal.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy knows, Committee Stage will run for many hours and days, with some Members even looking over at me wondering when it will end.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Unless Deputy Bernard Durkan comes in.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Since the beginning of the year, we have seen a succession of announcements of job losses. This week 330 jobs were lost at Allergan in Arklow, County Wicklow. Before that 220 jobs went at Jacobs Fruitfield, 60 at Britvic in Cork and 400 at the Burlington Hotel. Up to 1,500 jobs are under threat at SR Technics. Construction employment is down by 5.4% with 15,000 more on the live register than this time last year. Yesterday, some economic expert predicted unemployment will reach 6% by the end of this year.
Given the large number of job losses, will an opportunity be given to the House to discuss the strategies to deal with employment and the problems presented for those workers losing their jobs?
The Tánaiste will recall that the Ethics in Public Office Bill was announced in October 2006 by the Taoiseach and the then Tánaiste, Mr. Michael McDowell, following the revelations about the Taoiseach's finances at that time. The Bill provided for an arrangement whereby if a Member of the Oireachtas were to get a gift or a loan he or she would seek an opinion from the Standards in Public Office Commission before accepting it. The Bill completed all Stages in the Seanad on 4 July, but it was never presented to this House. The Bill is sponsored by the Tánaiste's Department. In the absence of other legislation this week I was surprised that the Bill was not presented to the House. When does the Tánaiste intend to take Second Stage of that Bill in this House?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I presume that Bill can be taken in this session with the agreement of the Whips in due course. A debate on employment matters is also a matter that can be facilitated through the agreement of the Whips.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Ethics in Public Office Bill is the Tánaiste's Bill.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Has he asked for Government time to present his Bill to the House? I would understand the Tánaiste's vague answer if it was the responsibility of another Minister, but this is his Bill. Has he asked the Whip for Government time to take Second Stage?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Anytime the Whip wishes to take the Ethics in Public Office Bill to the House, I will facilitate that.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Tánaiste is the relevant Minister.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have been considering amendments which will need to be taken in the House and revert back to the Seanad in view of some of the debate that has taken place already. Those amendments are being prepared by my officials. Work is continuing on the Bill.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is getting stranger by the minute. Normally a Minister puts pressure on the Government Whip for time for his Bill to be brought to the House. The Tánaiste seems to think it will operate the other way around. The Bill has been through the Seanad already and the Tánaiste now says there will be Government amendments to it. This is the first we have heard of the Government amending this legislation. What amendments are we discussing? Are they technical amendments or do they contain substantive issues?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am simply saying the Bill can be brought forward. If amendments are to be brought forward I will bring them forward and it is a matter for the Whips to decide when the Bill is taken. That is all I am saying. It can be taken this session. There is no big deal about it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should come back to us.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Government previously indicated its intention to relocate the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum to a site adjacent to the planned new super-prison at Thornton Hall. Does the Government intend to bring forward the mental health amendment Bill so that we can address the concerns already expressed not only by those patients and their families, but also by international experts who have become aware of the proposition and have expressed the view that it does not fit with international best practice.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand it is not possible to indicate at this stage when that Bill will be taken.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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When will a Bill that was promised last February and is relevant to the nursing home regulations, that was to have been completed and in operation by 1 January, come before the House? Many people are under extraordinary pressure and a financial burden because of lack of clarity on the Bill, especially in Cavan-Monaghan.
This item is also relevant to Cavan-Monaghan. When can the Whips organise time to have a debate on the collapse of incomes for poultry and pig farmers who are reaching a disastrous situation? It is time for a full debate in this House on food and food production.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the second question, it is a matter for the Whips to decide if a debate is to be held. I hope the first matter will be taken in this session.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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A Bill to transfer assets from the ESB to EirGrid was to have been published. There seems to be yet another change of heart in Government on this project, which is due to be completed in 2008. Does the Government intend to proceed with the legislation? It is not the legislation on the Order Paper that relates to EirGrid and the east-west connector. I am talking about what the Department described as priority legislation, which I had understood was to have been published by now.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The electricity (transfer of transmission assets) Bill provides for the transfer of ownership of the electricity transmission assets from the ESB to EirGrid. Analysis and discussion is under way on all dimensions, including legal and financial, to ensure optimum outcomes on foot of the transfer process. It is not possible to indicate at this stage when the Bill will be taken.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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It is now buried. Unlike the interconnector it is underground.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Last week in my constituency a mentally ill man who was supposed to go to the Central Mental Hospital had to be kept in a prison for a week. He could not go to the Central Mental Hospital because people could not be discharged from the hospital owing to a problem with the Criminal Law (Insanity) Act 2006 whereby there is no mechanism for people who are released under supervision to return if that becomes necessary. Therefore there is a problem getting people into the Central Mental Hospital. Does the Government intend to amend the Criminal Law (Insanity) Act 2006 to address this human rights issue?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is not promised, but it is clearly needed. The judge in the case said it was required.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter that would be best referred to the Minister for Health and Children.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is a justice, equality and law reform Bill, but it affects health. I would be grateful if the Government would consider it as it is urgent.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is out of order.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will refer it to the relevant Minister.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Given the degree to which professional Irish criminals now readily relocate themselves outside the jurisdiction beyond the reach of the law, is it intended to introduce a Bill to deal with the matter, which is obviously causing serious problems for the administration of justice here and in the European Union?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is. I think it is to come up in a minute.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a long time coming.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It has particular regard to home affairs concerns throughout Europe. The criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill could incorporate such legislation.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That Bill will be taken in the next session. I do not know whether it will incorporate what the Deputy anticipates.
Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I wish to raise the issue of the expensive fees charged by management companies to many new homeowners, including those who bought affordable houses and apartments. What is the position regarding the national property services regulatory authority Bill? In reply to a question from Deputy Burton before Christmas, the Taoiseach said that he was awaiting a report from an interdepartmental committee on the Bill. Has that happened yet?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that the national property services regulatory authority Bill has 74 heads. The earliest it can be taken is later this year. There is considerable work going on.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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From my discussions with disability groups, I know the interest the Tánaiste took in this matter when he was Minister for Health and Children for a very short time. Keeping in mind what happened in the courts this week and the report which was given to the Minister for Education and Science in October 2006 which recommended the mechanism for appeals but which still has not been introduced, I ask the Tánaiste to speak to the Minister for Education and Science and ask her to at least read the report and to implement the recommendations.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The fact that reports are issued and recommendations are made does not mean that any Government must accept those recommendations in whatever area of policy.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I understand that perfectly.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is the first point. The fact that reports issue recommendations and Ministers do not act upon them does not mean the Ministers are at fault in any way. We may not agree with the recommendations and there may be other ways of dealing with the recommendations.
The Department of Education and Science has developed policy in this area in recent years. It has been having a great degree of success in many respects in mainstreaming people with disabilities into the education system. Significant resources are being applied and thousands of people are being employed in the education system. We have moved from a very poor situation to one which has greatly improved and is much to the credit of this Minister and of previous Ministers who have taken up this matter.
I know parents have had specific views about the type of education they believe would be most appropriate for their children. However, education policy is decided by the Department while listening to all those concerns but not necessarily agreeing in total with views however well motivated and well-intentioned with regard to the interests of their children. This is the problem which the Government has been grappling with in the interests of the best educational needs of those children.
Deputy Hanafin has a very good record in this area. The question of how this type of education is applied within the mainstream is the real challenge. There is a continuing debate with interested groups about specialist schools which are separate from mainstream schooling. I am particularly acquainted with this debate since I regularly speak to parents in my constituency about these matters.
The fact that specific recommendations are made does not mean that the Minister is not working on this matter or is not coming up with results and improvements which may not exactly equate with what certain people believe is the right way but I reiterate that significant improvements are being made.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I wish to make a point.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is out of order as the Deputy will know.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The problem is that so long as an appeals mechanism is not in place, the only appeals mechanism available is through the courts and none of us thinks that is where people should be.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is out of order.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is hoped the clarification of the legal position which has been brought to this situation should inform future action so that referral to the courts is not the means of providing a solution to that problem. Much ongoing work and consultation, including work in partnership with people in the community, are the means of finding the best solution to these issues.
It is wrong to suggest that there have not been significant improvements because there have.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask that Deputies put down questions to the relevant Ministers about these matters.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I note from the information given to the House by the Chief Whip a Bill to establish a transport authority for the greater Dublin area, known as the Dublin Transport Authority Bill.
The Tánaiste's colleague, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, will tell him that transport is responsible for 20% of our overall carbon emissions. The transport system in the greater Dublin area is chaotic and approximately €13 million has been expended in an effort to achieve co-ordination between the various transport authorities by means of an integrated ticketing system. When will this Bill be brought before the House and passed quickly so that something can be done to deal with this significant emissions problem in the Dublin area?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As the Taoiseach said yesterday in reply to a question from the Labour Party Whip, it is expected this legislation will be taken this session and will provide an opportunity for Deputies to contribute.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I want it passed this session if we are serious about emissions.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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With the Deputy's co-operation.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The commitment to a speedy enactment is welcomed by the Government.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Whatever about that, I must speed on with the business of the House.