Dáil debates

Wednesday, 12 December 2007

The following motion was moved by Deputy Fergus O'Dowd on Tuesday, 11 December 2007:

That Dáil Éireann,

reiterates its concern on road safety and the continued loss of life on Irish roads;

recognises the impact the penalty points system has had on road safety;

notes with concern that the weaknesses in enforcing the penalty points system will reduce the impact of penalty points on driver behaviour;

acknowledges the severe strain the District Court is under in hearing fixed charge penalty cases; and

acknowledges the failure of the system when drivers on 12 points fail to voluntarily surrender their licence and continue to drive;

calls on the Government:

to bring forward legislation as a matter of urgency to reform the penalty points system that will ensure all fixed charge penalties are collected and enforced; and

to reform the system that requires legally disqualified drivers to surrender their licences and instead gives the Garda responsibility for collection of these licences.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"—reiterates its concern on road safety and the continued loss of life on Irish roads;

recognises the positive impact the penalty points system has had on road safety;

notes that the downward trend in road deaths has continued in 2007 and recognises that in the first 12 months of the operation of mandatory alcohol testing (August 2006 to July 2007) there has been over a 20% reduction in road deaths compared to the previous corresponding 12 month period;

supports the road safety strategy for the period 2007-2012 in order to further reduce road deaths and injuries;

commends the Government on the sustained implementation of road safety measures such as the establishment of the Road Safety Authority, the roll-out of the Garda Traffic Corps; the introduction of mandatory alcohol testing, the introduction of a graduated driving licence system for learner drivers, the doubling of penalties for drink driving offences, the extension of the penalty points system, including the introduction of penalty points for mobile phone offences;

notes that at the end of October 2007, over 480,000 drivers have received penalty points with 93 drivers currently on 12 points resulting in six months disqualification;

recognises the rights of a person alleged to have committed a road traffic offence, liable to a fixed charge payment, not to pay the amount specified and to opt to have the case heard by the courts;

recognises that the amount of the fine on conviction for a road traffic offence is a matter for the court (within the limits set out in the Road Traffic Acts), as is the collection of such fines;

notes that the Road Traffic Act 2002 provides for the requirement of persons who have accumulated 12 penalty points to submit their driving licences to the licensing authority that granted the licence not later than 14 days from the date of notification; and

notes that the Road Traffic Act 2002 also provides for the offence of not complying with such a direction."

—(Minister for Transport)

6:00 pm

Photo of Mary UptonMary Upton (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important matter. I congratulate my colleagues in Fine Gael on proposing this motion, which is particularly timely given the time of year and the tragedies people must live with as a result of accidents.

In 2005, the last year for which we have official statistics from the Road Safety Authority, there were 396 fatalities and 9,318 injuries as a result of road traffic accidents. In other words, a total of 9,714 people were either killed or injured on our roads in one year, an average of 809 people per month. The statistics do not give any indication of the nature or extent of injuries, but it is certain a high proportion of them would impact seriously and indefinitely on the lives of many people. The issue cannot receive enough publicity. The consequences of the deaths and severe injuries can or should be preventable. The most recent figures from the Garda national bureau show the number of deaths on the roads so far this year is 316. It is appalling that the loss of life on our roads continues daily. Last weekend we had further carnage on our roads.

The leading causes of deaths on our roads are speed, alcohol, drugs and driver fatigue. These factors can be controlled and it should be possible to eliminate them, if the will exists to do it. Motorists carry the blame for their bad behaviour and must be held responsible for it. The tragedy is there are so many victims of the irresponsibility of some drivers. Breaking the speed limit is illegal, yet it is the most common reason for collisions. Why is it necessary for cars to be designed to travel at speeds way above the legal limit? One of the main purposes of the introduction of penalty points was to reduce speeding and, last night, many speakers highlighted how the initial introduction of penalty points had a positive effect on curbing excessive speed and on road safety. That was in the early days, but the benefit seems to be almost eroded and the rules are blatantly ignored by many drivers, as supported by documentary evidence.

The second main reason for collisions resulting in death or injuries is alcohol. While I appreciate the steps that have been taken to curb drinking and driving, much more could be done. Night after night, rows of cars are parked outside our pubs. Nobody believes the owners or drivers of these cars are all drinking lemonade. Why, therefore, are more gardaí not located outside these pubs to enforce the law? Now that it is possible to stop any driver anywhere and check for alcohol intake, there is nothing to stop gardaí from checking these people once they get into their cars and turn on the ignition. Again, the will must be there to do this and to be serious about putting a stop to driving under the influence of alcohol. The perception of enforcement is almost as important as the law itself. If motorists believe they will get away with breaking the rules, they will do so.

Failure to enforce the law results in people dying or being seriously injured on our roads every day of the week. The headlines tell us about the deaths, but we hear little about the many serious injuries or the subsequent suffering of those who are injured. People suffer serious disabilities, brain and spinal injuries, paralysis and other consequences, destroying their own lives and, often, the lives of their families and those who must care for them.

It is unacceptable that up to 50% of all motorists fail to pay fines for offences such as speeding or that many drivers who have accumulated 12 penalty points do not voluntarily hand up their driving licences as required. If the penalty points system is not reviewed, made effective and made a real deterrent to bad behaviour on our roads, the purpose of the system will be undermined.

The motion is timely and I fully support it. I call on the Minister to ensure that all the rules and laws in place are workable and enforced. If they are not workable, it is time to revisit them and take action to make them workable. The time for wringing our hands about road deaths and injuries should be over. Enforcement of the law should replace it. When penalty points were first introduced, they had a positive impact, but now people are quite cavalier about them and it is not unusual to see people driving around with their mobile phones to their ears. The number of people pulled in, breathalysed and found to be over the limit is alarming and totally unacceptable. Much work remains to be done with regard to enforcement of the law.

Photo of M J NolanM J Nolan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to share time with Deputies Michael McGrath, Barry Andrews and Ciarán Cuffe.

Photo of John CreganJohn Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of M J NolanM J Nolan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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This debate on the serious matter of road safety is timely, particularly in the run-up to Christmas, a period when in recent years serious road accidents claimed a number of lives. Last weekend, the number of people killed and seriously injured on our roads was over the average for the time of year.

It is important to recognise, however, that the number of fatalities on our roads this year to date is just above 300, which is an improvement on the carnage in recent years. It is also worth noting that the ratio of road fatalities compared to the number of vehicles using the roads has declined over the past ten years. This is due in no small way to the implementation of new road traffic Acts and the vigilance and co-operation of gardaí, the traffic corps in particular, in implementing the new laws.

The three main reasons for the reduction in deaths on our roads are the new drink driving laws, the implementation of speed limits and the vigilance of the Garda traffic corps. The Ministers for Transport and Justice, Equality and Law Reform are to be commended in this regard. A new attitude exists among young drivers who, if going out for a night, nominate a driver who will not drink. I commend the drinks industry in this regard also. On my way to Dublin yesterday I heard its advertisement advising sensible drinking by people going out for a night.

Another contributory factor to reduced accidents is the availability of taxis. The changes in the laws relating to taxi licences improved the situation. One of the big problems for individuals previously was the unavailability of taxis. At certain times during the Christmas season there are still problems with availability, but in general there has been an improvement in recent years, which should be commended.

It is important to acknowledge the strides made with regard to road safety, including the improvement in the quality of cars and roads and the investment made by various Governments over the past 20 years in infrastructure. Improvements in public lighting in our towns and villages, the implementation of the road safety strategy and the establishment of the Road Safety Authority have also gone a long way to improving road safety. The introduction of penalty points improved the statistics for a short time and the recent extension of that system, to include 35 new areas, should improve statistics with regard to deaths and serious injury on the roads. In addition, the implementation of the law on speeding, drink-driving and seat belt wearing has gone a long way towards reducing the number of road deaths. I commend the Minister on the establishment of the Road Safety Authority, the roll-out of the Garda traffic corps, the introduction of mandatory alcohol testing and a graduated driving licence system for learner drivers. While there was much debate about the Minister's announcement on enforcement of the law regarding second provisional licence holders, it is gratifying to note that there is now a commitment that 120,000 individuals who have applied for their driving tests will be given the opportunity to take these tests by late next year. That is to be welcomed.

Last year I heard a complaint from a person who turned up for his driving test at 9.30 a.m. on a frosty morning, only to be told by the tester that he would not do the test as the weather was too poor. I could not understand why a person would not be allowed to do the test under any weather conditions, including normal winter conditions. However, I understand that this is the case, and I did not get much satisfaction when I checked with the Department.

I support the strategic approach covering the period 2007-12. Based on the success of the last two safety policy strategic approaches which were introduced in the 1990s, we will see even greater improvements due to this. The primary target is to reduce road deaths and injuries by achieving substantial progress in the areas of speeding, drink-driving and seat belt wearing. The extension in April of the 35 penalty point offences will go some way towards achieving improvements in this area.

Driver behaviour should be highlighted. The more effective enforcement by the Garda that we see, the better. One of the issues that needs to be considered is in the area of penalty points. They are effective, but I know of people who received penalty points who have claimed that after the three-year period for the points had expired they were not made aware of this. Having made inquiries, I understand they should be informed. Perhaps the Minister will consider this.

I commend the Minister on his efforts to improve safety on our roads. Great strides have been made, but there is a long way still to go.

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the amended motion. Too many families have had the dreaded knock on the door by a member of An Garda Síochána coming to tell them that a loved one has been killed in a road accident. The loss of a friend or family member in such a sudden and inexplicable manner haunts thousands of families. As Members of Dáil Éireann we have an onerous duty to do everything possible to minimise loss of life on our roads. I commend the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, for the high priority he has personally attached to road safety since entering office. The policies he and his predecessor have pursued require our continued unconditional support if they are to achieve their full potential.

I wish to use my limited time to highlight a few issues in this debate. A number of my colleagues have already mentioned the role of alcohol in road accidents. According to a HSE study, alcohol was a factor in 36.5% of all fatal road crashes in 2003 and in 62% of single-vehicle, single-occupant fatal crashes in that year. These are the facts. It is staggering that alcohol has played such a significant role in fatal road crashes in Ireland over the past number of years. The Government recently responded with the introduction of mandatory alcohol testing. This has already had a staggering impact. Road deaths are down 20% in the 12-month period since mandatory alcohol testing was introduced compared to the previous 12 months. A total of 24,255 people were arrested between August 2006 and October 2007 on suspicion of driving while intoxicated. The message is finally getting through and we are witnessing a change, slowly but surely, in personal behaviour, not least because of the highly visible enforcement regime of An Garda Síochána.

Although some people regard the enforcement of drink-driving laws as an attack on our culture or on the rural way of life, we must continue to do what is right to give us the best possible chance of saving lives throughout the country. Embracing these measures does require people to plan and make arrangements if they are socialising. An element of sacrifice is involved, but it cannot be compared to the sacrifice of a lost life. We have recently seen a number of transport initiatives in rural areas which facilitate people who want to socialise. I encourage this and hope to see more such schemes. I am pleased to see that the Department of Transport is in discussions with the Attorney General about the possibility of testing all drivers involved in serious accidents for alcohol. That is a positive measure which should be introduced as soon as possible.

This brings me to the issue of people driving under the influence of drugs. In future we must accord this an importance equal to that of drink-driving. In 2001 the Medical Bureau of Road Safety at UCD carried out a study in which 2,000 blood and urine specimens of people who were arrested on suspicion of drink-driving were reviewed. The figures obtained were quite astounding. Of the 2,000 specimens tested, one in seven contained illegal drugs. It is interesting that the figure was much higher among drivers who were found not to be above the blood alcohol limit. Of these samples, one in three contained drugs. We all know how Ireland has changed even since 2001. If it was a problem then it is certainly an even more serious problem now. Recent publicity provides sufficient evidence that this issue needs to be dealt with.

I wish to address the issue of personal behaviour. All of us who drive must understand that when we get behind the wheel of a car we are in control of a weapon which has the potential to kill ourselves and others. While legislation and enforcement are important, they can only achieve so much. According to the Road Safety Authority, nine out of ten fatal collisions are caused primarily by the behaviour of road users. This is a sobering statistic that all of us must bear in mind when we take control of a vehicle. We must accept that we will never change the behaviour of some people when it comes to drink-driving, speeding or downright reckless driving. Some people simply will not change despite publicity and extra enforcement and no matter how draconian the legislation. Thus, we should start by educating young people. I am pleased to see that under the new strategy all primary school children will have completed a basic road safety programme by 2012. At second level, the safety authority will work with the Department of Education and Science and the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment to develop a road safety programme for transition year students. It is important that they have a basic level of training before they commence their driving careers. I welcome this development.

One in three of those killed on the roads over the past six years were not wearing a seat belt or child restraint. The compliance rate for front-seat drivers and passengers is 86% and for back-seat passengers it is just 63%. These are the basics that we must insist on getting right. Wearing a seat belt does save lives. We must get those percentages as close to 100 as we possibly can. I encourage people, particularly in the run up to Christmas when there will be much socialising at parties and so forth, to take responsibility for their actions on our roads. Drivers have an impact not only on themselves but on their loved ones and everyone around them. I emphasise this point.

We must acknowledge the progress made in recent years, underlined by the number of measures introduced. Despite the 51% increase in the number of vehicles on the roads since 1998, road deaths have decreased by approximately 20%. I am glad the Road Safety Authority has been put on a statutory footing as it is important that we continue to invest in roads. Statistics show that motorways are up to nine times safer than single carriageway roads, for which reason the National Roads Authority continues to emphasise the importance of the inter-urban routes.

The new learner permit system, enhanced enforcement and increased penalties for drink driving offences are having an impact and the Road Safety Strategy 2007-12, the most ambitious of the three strategies to date, has been adopted. I look forward to seeing its full implementation. We must continue to focus on outstanding issues such as attaching penalty points to licences of foreign registered drivers and examining new technologies for testing drug driving. I am glad the Minister intends to introduce further road safety legislation in 2008.

We should follow the example of the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Sweden and Norway, which are leading the way in Europe in terms of road safety. With the full co-operation and support of the general public, there is no reason Ireland cannot become a leader in road safety. It would be a fitting monument to those who have tragically lost their lives on our roads in recent years. During the next two weeks, we must do everything possible to ensure that 2007 records the lowest number of fatalities in 40 years.

Photo of Barry AndrewsBarry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Fine Gael proposal is not legislative, despite that being the normal procedure during Private Members' time. Fine Gael asked the Government to produce legislation, which it has indicated it will do. I am not sure why this motion was taken during Private Members' time——

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Some 40,000 people escape paying fines.

Photo of Terence FlanaganTerence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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It is a major issue.

Photo of Barry AndrewsBarry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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——given that a reply to a parliamentary question, by way of written answer, would have been satisfactory. Nevertheless, the issue is before the House. There is broad agreement on it and we are all delighted by the decrease in the number of road deaths, which is attributable to several factors, in particular the significant impact of television advertising.

Fine Gael's proposal is genuine and is not meant to trip the Government, so I want to try to deal with it. It proposes a second yellow card whereby once the fixed charge penalty has not been paid within 56 days, there would be a further period to prevent the matter getting stuck in the court system. It would be a second yellow card, requiring a further level of administration.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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On a point of information——

Photo of Barry AndrewsBarry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I will not concede because I am under pressure to make several points. The Deputy will have time to make contributions in the normal way.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Some 40,000 summonses were not served.

Photo of Barry AndrewsBarry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Some 70% of fixed charge penalties are paid on time. We are dealing with a cohort within the remaining 30%.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Some 100,000 uninsured drivers and 125,000 without licences.

Photo of Barry AndrewsBarry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Certain people have legitimate defences for their alleged offences under the penalty point system. Let us not over estimate the scale.

Last night, Deputies stated that there is a trend in people taking a gamble on court, but that is not the case. Most people pay on time and, of those who do not, a large portion simply neglect to do so. It is not a deliberate thumbs down to the courts. Let us not over react. The issuing of summonses is an operational matter for the Garda Commissioner. Our good and well considered policy has been effective, part of the dividend of which is the additional 100 people alive today.

Gay Byrne is highly regarded, as is right. However, the young drivers who cause the difficulties and who do not understand the danger do not know who Gay Byrne is. We have an opportunity to consider an issue I have raised previously, namely, road safety ambassadors. The people who young people look up to are not politicians in all cases. They look up to sports stars.

There has been much debate about whether Gaelic footballers and hurlers should be paid. For example, Dan Shanahan, hurler of the year, could supplement his income with a few quid by going to Waterford's schools to talk to young people about road safety. This suggestion should be considered. I cannot remember the names of any Gaelic footballers from Louth, but I am sure there are one or two people can look up to.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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What about my brother, Neil O'Dowd, who played for Louth or my son who plays rugby?

Photo of John CreganJohn Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has one minute remaining. Allow Deputy Barry Andrews.

Photo of Barry AndrewsBarry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It is a good idea and I thank Deputy O'Dowd for his support.

Recently, I was in Waterford and saw that Dan Shanahan is the face of waste in Dungarvan. He would be better served being paid a few quid by the RSA to visit schools. Equally, Seán Óg Ó hAilpín or another character who is well thought of. With respect to Gay Byrne, he would concede that he does not have the same cachet among the younger people causing the problems.

If Deputy Michael McGrath does not mind me mentioning it, I disagree with the suggestion of teaching road safety in transition year. If the message comes from school teachers — there is a natural disconnect between transition year students and their teachers — there will be a problem. Those students are not allowed to drive. As there are many problems in respect of this suggestion, I would prefer bringing in outside people.

Photo of Ciarán CuffeCiarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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Enforcing the law, ensuring it is applied and knowing that people cannot escape its long arm are at the heart of the motion. It makes a mockery of our system if we do not catch up with those breaking the law. I acknowledge the sentiment behind the motion because we have work to do in this regard.

We must acknowledge that road safety has improved, but we have set the bar on what can be done far too low. We have nearly become accustomed to hundreds of people dying on the roads every year. Only when it strikes among our friends or families is the harsh reality brought home. We must have a harsher regime for those who break the law.

I agree with Deputy Barry Andrews in that, while Gay Byrne is an iconic figure to anyone over the age of the Deputy or me, he does not represent anything to many others, particularly recent immigrants to our island. We must focus on immigrants from Lithuania, Latvia and Poland. They are used to a driving regime in which road accidents occur at double if not treble our rate. In Lithuania, there are nearly 250 road deaths per million population compared to under 100 road deaths per million here. The culture of complacency is alive and well in many of the countries that joined the European Union recently. We must get through to them in terms of their culture in whatever way is possible and I suspect Gay Byrne is not the appropriate role model in this case. We need a rethink in that regard.

I am not convinced that the rather harsh road safety campaigns are getting through to the boy racer. People tend to ignore that message in the same way they ignored the "Smoking Kills" message on cigarette packets. Perhaps there are better ways of doing that.

Proper enforcement of speed limits is vitally important in the fight to improve road safety. We should consider the propensity in recent years towards driving ever larger cars, and particularly the rise of the SUV which is more susceptible to roll-over but also has a much higher axle weight. If we consider that momentum is the mass of a vehicle multiplied by the square of the speed, these larger vehicles are inherently more dangerous. We should consider carefully whether applying the same speed limits to SUVs as we would to smaller road vehicles is entirely appropriate. We have lower speed limits for heavy goods vehicles, for instance, because they have a larger weight and are more difficult to slow down in an emergency. My colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, along with the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, is bringing in a system of carrots and sticks, so to speak, to encourage lower carbon emissions but I suspect this will not have an impact on the mindset of the typical SUV purchaser who will perhaps wear it as a badge of pride that they have a G carbon rating on the equivalent of the Exxon Valdez that they drive. One way of getting through to those drivers would be to impose a slightly lower speed limit to curb their excesses and remind them that these very large vehicles are potentially more dangerous on the road not just because of the momentum, but also their height off the ground. Having two young children, I am acutely aware of the visibility of small children on the road and the fact that children who are, for example, a metre tall often are much less visible behind the hood of one of those large vehicles at a crossing point. We should figure that into our calculation of the dangers of SUVs.

I spoke about the need to emphasise the importance of road safety to our recent immigration population and the need to consider SUVs and the possibility of introducing lower speed limits for some of the more outrageous models of that particular species. I will conclude by referring briefly to the problem of drink driving. There has been a strong media concentration on the need to sustain a rural way of life, which I fully endorse, but I suspect we have put far more emphasis on the needs of older male drinkers who drive to the pub for one or two drinks. We appear to be pulling out our hair over that when we should concentrate more on the needs of women who are more likely to drive to bingo or to do the shopping and who have very different needs. If we spent a small fraction of the attention we focus on the older rural male driver on the needs of women and, particularly, mothers in rural areas, I suspect we would find better solutions more appropriate to the needs of rural Ireland and could draw attention to the solutions that are required.

I welcome the Fine Gael motion. It is vitally important to bring attention to road safety and the need to have proper implementation of the law. We should examine innovative solutions to try to reduce the ongoing tragedy of deaths on our roads.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Deputies Flanagan, Crawford, Carey, Burke and Durkan.

Photo of John CreganJohn Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Listening to Fianna Fáil speakers this evening one would think that the party was in office for only 11 weeks, let alone 11 years. It has an appalling record in terms of the carnage on our roads.

Photo of Batt O'KeeffeBatt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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So we are responsible for that too.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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This motion is a genuine attempt to highlight a problem that is leading to unnecessary deaths on our roads. Such appalling fatalities could be prevented if measures were put in place to counteract problems with the penalty points system which promised much but, unfortunately, after a good start, has failed to deliver safety for our road users.

I am shocked that the Government could not see this motion for what it is and support it rather than rushing to justify its position, which is not defendable but rectifiable with concerted effort. Its self-congratulation fails to convince.

The issue of penalty points has been a "give on the one hand and take away with the other" response to road carnage by the Government. Having started as a positive response to the need to reduce road fatalities, the system has been allowed to fail due to Government inaction, ineptitude and failure to provide necessary resources to the Garda.

While the introduction of penalty points has had a positive effect on road safety, and I welcome any reduction in fatalities, the inability of the Government to ensure the enforcement of the measures has lessened the initiative's impact. Those who have lost family members and friends due to the lack of effort by the Government to halt the appalling level of deaths on our roads will take little consolation from the Government's extraordinarily negative response to this motion, which they countered with a self-congratulatory amendment.

The Courts Service claims that the system of issuing fixed penalty notices to motorists, designed to keep such cases out of court, is not working. It indicates that a total of 88,000 summonses in respect of fixed charge offences came before the courts in the first six months of 2007 and fears that the country's District Courts will be swamped. The number of motorists who end up being prosecuted for non-payment of fines has prompted the Courts Service to call for a number of measures such as outstanding fines being collected with annual motor tax renewals and the introduction of an increase of penalty points for those who fail to pay fines.

When it comes to court proceedings, the onus is on the Garda to prove that the person involved received the fixed penalty notice but if that person claims they never got it, what can the judge do but dismiss the case? The Road Safety Authority, whose mandate is to campaign on road safety, refuses to comment on the matter while stating that it does not comment on issues relating to enforcement or court cases.

Launched in a blaze of publicity and expense, the penalty points system had the desired effect initially and an impact on speeding and drink driving, with approximately 100 lives being saved on our roads in the first year. It is recognised by everybody that the system is now in chaos. An analysis carried out by the Committee of Public Accounts found that nearly all the photographs taken by Garda speed cameras in 2005 and 2006 were useless and unless the equipment is updated that situation will continue. That issue has been highlighted time and again.

In a disturbing development, the Road Safety Authority has become aware of a website which offers to sell EU driving licences to those who are convicted of driving offences. These licences, from an address in Spain, are offered to anyone who has been convicted of a traffic offence or who has failed their driving test. This is another direct threat to the enforcement of penalty points and another danger on our roads.

Some 18,000 drivers who hold non-Irish licences are able to treat the current system with disdain and get away scot free regarding the attachment of penalty points. Some satellite navigation devices have built in illegal devices and a certain website is promoting a speeding alert for young drivers as an ideal Christmas gift to avoid penalty points. It is a shame this is advertised on a website and that the Government does not take any action against it.

Until the system is fully functioning, with all legal and technical loopholes closed, Garda time will continue to be wasted and drivers will literally get away with murder as road deaths continue to rise. Speed limits are breached with impunity on dual carriageways and motorways. The lack of police presence gives a strong message to drivers that they can break the law and get away with it.

Up to two thirds of drivers — a shocking figure — who should be off the roads due to having the maximum penalty points, have failed to surrender their licences. Last month the Department confirmed that of the 121 drivers on 12 penalty points, only 40 had handed in their licences.

They cannot be forced to surrender their licences until the law is changed, as is the case in the UK where police can remove a licence from a driver on the spot. Such a provision makes much sense and the necessary legislative provision for enforcement should be put in place urgently.

Photo of Terence FlanaganTerence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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I commend my colleague Deputy O'Dowd for bringing this motion before the House. I strongly agree with the need for legislation and urgent reform of the penalty points system.

All Members are aware of the positive effect the introduction of penalty points had on road safety when introduced several years ago. It led to a 20% reduction in road deaths by December 2002. Unfortunately, since then all progress made has been lost with road fatalities rising again each year.

Why have people who initially slowed down and drove responsibly reverted to speeding? They have done so because there are too many loopholes in the implementation of the penalty points system. Careless and speeding drivers have a 50% chance, even if caught for speeding, of not having to pay a fine or of points going on their driving licences. Half of all speeding summonses have not been served while of those served many have been thrown out of court. Only one in three drivers surrenders his or her driving licence voluntarily.

The current system is also inefficient in the collection of penalty point data. Defendants are requested to bring their driving licences to court so the driving licence numbers can be recorded and the penalty points allocated to the correct driving record. If a defendant does not hand up his or her licence, the licence number may not be captured. Only one in three drivers on 12 points surrenders his or her licence voluntarily as they are supposed to do. Out of the 121 drivers currently on 12 penalty points, only 40 have handed their licences into their local tax offices as of 1 November 2007. A statement from the Courts Service on the system states:

There is an urgent need for reform of the current legislation which is failing to keep "fixed penalty" offences out of court. As these offences are considered suitable for fixed penalties without the intervention of the court, the logical position is that such cases should only be before a court if the alleged offender wishes to have the case adjudicated by a court. The present system results in cases being dealt with in court although there is no intention on the part of the defendant to defend it. It should be a matter for the defendant to indicate that a court hearing is required. A change such as this would have the effect of considerably reducing the number of cases going to court while at the same time increasing the effectiveness of the system.

While I understand there is a legislation issue, penalty points are not imposed on cars from Northern Ireland and other countries. Some work on rectifying this is underway in Europe which I hope will be completed soon.

The Road Safety Authority expects the long-awaited and long-promised national speed camera network to be operational by the second quarter of 2008. These cameras are expected to operate on enforcement in the region of 6,000 hours a month. This will dramatically increase the number of motorists caught speeding and their follow-up fixed penalty notices.

If current payment rates continue, hundreds of thousands of summonses will enter the District Courts. It is quite possible the system will collapse due to the enormous volume of cases. This was highlighted by Fine Gael's then spokesperson on transport, Deputy Olivia Mitchell, when the proposed roll-out of the safety camera network was announced. Motorists must be educated in reducing speed.

Safety cameras need to be placed on dangerous areas of the road network where a maximum number of lives can be saved rather than the soft targets of, say, 50 km zones and where they are used more as cash cows. A proper advertising campaign needs to be established for the introduction of these cameras to avoid a debacle like that of the recent driving test announcement.

If the Government fails to take action on this issue by ignoring the motion then it is failing in its commitment to road safety and on saving lives on the roads.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The issue of road safety comes close to one when someone near and dear is involved. Only last week, a man whom I knew well was killed on a national primary road outside Monaghan.

The north east was unique in that it was the only area which had permanent safety camera boxes. However, only three cameras were circulated among them. It is high time this was rolled out nationally. It is also important that people are not aware of where the cameras are positioned or that they are permanent or otherwise.

Operation of the safety cameras will be given over to a private company. I am concerned it will position the cameras on easy touches rather than in dangerous spots. It should be seen as a programme to prevent accidents, not as a cash cow.

Fine Gael supports the penalty points system and the push for a downward trend in road fatalities. We urge the law be changed as it contains fundamental errors. Many offending drivers are not being dealt with and the courts have been clogged up. The problem is exemplified by those with non-Irish driving licences not being dealt with by the courts. A better system must be put in place to ensure all drivers who break the law are dealt with.

Frequent users of the M1 often witness drivers from Northern Ireland and others with foreign-registered cars flout the law. Garda figures show even those drivers caught offending by speed cameras will not be affected. While through my involvement with the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body, I appreciate that progress is being made towards an all-Ireland approach, the obstacles to achieving this are significant but must be overcome if lives are to be saved. No one, no matter where he or she is from, or who he or she is, should be above the law. I recently saw a Government car exceeding the speed limit outside a national school by over 30 km/h. This is not a good example for the public.

The state of our national and regional roads contributes to some serious accidents. Seldom a day goes by without one or more of these roads being closed because of such accidents.

Those who make long journeys should be provided with rest areas. I have tried to raise questions about this but no one in the House seems to take responsibility for this problem. The Government and the European Commission should insist on maximum driving times. The Government, through local authorities, should take responsibility for the serious lack of rest areas and rectify this situation. Tiredness causes accidents. There is nowhere for a tourist or lorry driver, driving from Belfast, through Monaghan and the midlands to Kerry, to rest. We are told rest areas cannot be provided along a national primary road.

Photo of Joe CareyJoe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Private Member's motion and I commend Deputy O'Dowd on proposing it. Everybody can recall the dramatic changes in driver behaviour when penalty points were first introduced. Motorists drove more attentively and reached their destinations safely because they feared being caught by the penalty points system. The introduction of the system reduced road deaths by 20% in 2000. Within six to eight months, however, driver attitudes changed and motorists reverted to their old habits, resulting in a rise in road deaths because they realised they had a slim chance of being caught.

It is a challenge for the Government to change this and to make people realise that penalty points exist and we need to implement them and revive the original respect for them, not just out of fear of being caught and penalised. We need to use the system to place road safety at the forefront of motorists' minds. I urge the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, to take the Fine Gael motion on board.

The motion recognises the positive aspects of the penalty point system and the leading role it can play in reducing road deaths. It illustrates a real problem which causes difficulty for the Garda, the courts system and for law-abiding citizens. If the problem is not addressed now there will be chaos when hundreds of speed cameras are put in place as this Government intends. The court system is not able to cope with the workload and will come to a complete halt if the extra offences picked up by the proposed new cameras come into play. The Government must get its house in order before this change is put in place.

It is not right that the Government should preside over a penalty points system whereby those who commit an offence and pay the fine accrue penalty points on their licences while those who commit the same offence and let it go to court get away with it. This must not be allowed to continue.

The Minister has an opportunity to change this situation. If he will not listen to us he should at least listen to the Courts Service which has proposed good and practical ways of solving this problem. The Minister needs to act urgently on this matter of life and death and instil in every motorist the respect that penalty points commanded when they were first introduced. This can be achieved only by reform of the system. The Minister must show leadership and solve these problems to make our roads safer for all users in a real attempt to reduce the number of road deaths. I strongly support the Fine Gael motion and commend it to the House.

8:00 pm

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I compliment Deputy O'Dowd on introducing this timely motion. Every year for the past few years there have been many fatalities on our roads in the festive season. I agree wholeheartedly with the contents of the motion.

I cannot understand why there is so little co-operation between the agencies charged with responsibility for road maintenance and safety. That was highlighted by the recent statement from the National Roads Authority, NRA, that it has decided unilaterally to eliminate the provision of 11 strategically placed rest areas from its roads programme. This is being done, despite the fact that it has been highlighted many times that at least 200 deaths over the past five years have been attributed to driver fatigue. How can the NRA reconcile that decision with its commitment to road safety? Is this another instance of the NRA being out of the Minister's control?

Local authorities must play a greater role in ensuring road safety, for example, the markings on many roads, particularly minor ones where many fatalities have occurred, are either inadequate or absent. This would not require high expenditure or a blaze of headlines in the media but could dramatically reduce fatalities.

As we approach the deadline by which drivers must have full licences, we must consider elderly people who, through no fault of their own, are under stress because they must undergo a driving test. Will the Minister afford some degree of leniency or an exemption to those people? In a rural area when the driver spouse of an elderly couple dies, the remaining spouse is left without transport to the shop or the town. The prospect for that person of doing the driving test causes unnecessary anxiety. One way or another we should consider this. The motion is timely, by and large, and I hope it helps in some way to alert drivers over the coming festive season and reduce traffic deaths.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this motion and I compliment my colleague Deputy Fergus O'Dowd on bringing it before the House. I am in a unique position to speak on this subject as I had an out of body experience related to a motor accident in the past week. This motion serves to focus attention on the contributory factors leading to road deaths.

I believe that enough signs around the country indicating the presence of speed cameras will slow people down except those who always disregard the rules of the road. It is not always necessary to drive at the highest permissible speed. On some roads the highest permissible speed is far below the national speed limit but the national speed limit on secondary roads is far greater than the speed motorists should drive.

Many Members of this House have been members of local authorities and will know that planning permission for access to a main road can only be granted if at that spot there are 119 metres of clear vision in both directions. I went back to the scene of my recent brush with the next world to measure the road and found that the line of vision to the right at the T-junction was only 28 metres. Once a person has committed to turn on to that main road, he or she has no option but take the impact of the oncoming vehicle, as I did. Countless similar accidents have occurred through the years and at one location in my constituency 19 people were killed in 20 years. How long must this go on before we deal with the causes of these accidents?

I was glad to see the Minister performed a hand brake turn on the issue of the unfortunate provisional driving licence holders after the self-righteousness and political correctness of the preceding days that suggested everyone would be tested over a single weekend. I believe provisional licence holders are not the worst offenders and the statistics support this. It was very difficult for me to extract this information because the Minister only gave the answer to my question on this today and I have not yet received it.

I am informed that people who contest penalty points in court have a good rate of success and this might be noted by those who pay their fines on the spot. Ministers have refused to answer my questions in this regard but the evidence available to me suggests this is the case. We should have this information and if it is so, we should examine the situation to find out what is going wrong.

I assure the House that in the coming years each of its Members will receive penalty points as they will be unavoidable if cameras are to be spread throughout the country as has been suggested. I will be delighted if anyone can prove me wrong in four or five years but I believe this is how penalty points will be distributed. Road conditions and drivers not having due regard for them are the main cause of accidents.

Photo of Batt O'KeeffeBatt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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On behalf of the Minister for Transport, I thank Deputies for their constructive contributions to an interesting debate concerning the important subject of road safety and, in particular, the operation of the penalty points and fixed charge systems. The Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, has asked that I take this opportunity to respond briefly on his behalf to some of those issues.

It is appropriate to take this opportunity to outline some of the fundamentals of the penalty points and fixed charge systems. The primary purpose of the penalty points system is to track breaches of driving regulations with a view to improving the driving behaviour of those who repeatedly commit these breaches. The design of the system required careful consideration of Irish circumstances, including the role of the courts in the administration of justice. In designing the penalty points system, the Department of Transport examined such systems operating in other jurisdictions and, where possible, adopted elements of them. However, the Irish system was tailored specifically to suit our laws.

Regarding the majority of penalty point offences, the option of paying a fixed charge is available and therefore penalty points are, in most cases, incurred when a motorist pays a fixed charge notice issued by the Garda for infringements of road traffic law. When the motorist pays the fixed charge, he or she is accepting the consequence that the prescribed number of penalty points will be endorsed on his or her driving licence record. As the Minister indicated last night, it is a matter for the motorist to decide whether to pay the fixed charge in lieu of going to court. It is a person's right to go to court and to contest the nature of the alleged offence.

Any suggestions that affect the basic rationale I have outlined for the penalty points and fixed charge system, such as the suggestions which we heard last night relating to a debt collection firm pursuing the payment of fixed charges or attaching an unpaid fixed charge to a renewal of motor tax can only be considered against the fundamental right of the motorist to reject the fixed charge option and to contest his or her case in court.

If the motorist opts for a court hearing, he or she avoids the automatic consequence of the application of penalty points on his or her licence record arising from payment of a fixed charge but runs the risk of being endorsed with a higher number of penalty points, which will automatically follow a court conviction, and is liable for a higher financial penalty by way of a court fine. The intended effect of these systems is to instil greater caution and responsibility in motorists and to transfer most of the enforcement of the system from the courts to an administrative process.

The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, outlined in detail last night how administrative systems operate between the various agencies involved, including the fact that reports are given to the Garda outlining the status of disqualified drivers and whether they have surrendered their licences to the licensing authority. It is an offence not to surrender one's licence and the Garda can pursue through the courts those drivers who fail to do so.

The Road Safety Authority, RSA, was responsible for developing the new road safety strategy for the period 2007 to 2012. It sought public consultation in October last year and received a substantial number of suggestions and proposals as a result of that process. It also engaged in a process of direct consultation with key stakeholders in December 2006. The level of consultation with stakeholders was very detailed and resulted in the development of a programme of actions which will be implemented by a range of Departments and agencies over the next six years.

As the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, outlined last night, a number of legislative proposals emanate from the strategy and he has indicated that he will consider any other issues raised by the Garda or the Courts Service in the development of legislative proposals in this regard.

Deputies O'Dowd, O'Mahony, Mitchell and Deenihan inquired as to the position on speed cameras. Speed continues to be a major contributory factor in causing deaths and injuries on our roads. The best way to ensure greater levels of compliance with speed limits is a wider deployment of cameras, which is planned. Speed enforcement is suited to the use of cameras and other facilities that do not depend on the immediate presence of gardaí. For this reason, the road safety strategy provides for the engagement of private sector interests in the operation of cameras. Decisions on the locations where cameras will be provided will be taken by the Garda in co-operation with the relevant authorities and will reflect both the experience of speed related collisions and evidence of a history of speeding.

In order to permit what has heretofore been a Garda activity, the Road Traffic Act 2006 contains provisions to support the operation of privately operated cameras. The operative date for the roll-out of the cameras, according to the road safety strategy, is the second quarter of 2008. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is the lead agency responsible for this project and is currently engaged in a procurement process.

Deputies Ó Snodaigh and Ring raised the issue of drug testing of drivers in the light of recent deaths related to drugs generally. The Road Traffic Acts provide that a member of the Garda Síochána, where he or she is of the opinion that a person in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place is under the influence of a drug or drugs to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of that vehicle, may require that person to go to a Garda station and further require that he or she submit to a blood test or provide a urine sample.

The Medical Bureau of Road Safety analyses blood and urine specimens received under the Road Traffic Acts for the presence of a drug or drugs. Enforcement of the law on drug-driving is a matter for the Garda Síochána. The Department of Transport will keep under review the development of technology internationally for roadside testing for drugs. There is no reliable equipment available for that purpose. When suitable technology becomes available, any measures applied to the roadside testing of drivers for alcohol will also be applied to drugs.

Deputies O'Mahony, Broughan and Ó Snodaigh referred to driving test waiting times. Since its establishment in September 2006, the Road Safety Authority has introduced several measures to reduce driving test waiting times. These include contracting SGS Limited to provide additional driving tests on its behalf. In the last year or so the average waiting time for a test has come down by approximately one third and the RSA continues to drive that waiting time down.

Following the recent changes to driver licensing provisions, the RSA has confirmed that all 122,000 applicants on the waiting list at the end of October will have been tested by early March 2008 and that by the end of June 2008 all applicants for a driving test will be able to get a test on demand, that is, within ten weeks. This does not mean there will be no waiting list at the end of June 2008.

In addition to these two commitments, the Minister for Transport has also requested the RSA to ensure all 120,000 people who were holders of second provisional licences at the time the changes were introduced in October will be offered a test before the end of June 2008. From that date, these drivers will be required to be accompanied by a qualified driver, a requirement which applied to all other learner drivers even before the changes.

Deputies O'Dowd, Broughan, Ó Snodaigh and Ring referred to the problems associated with endorsing penalty points on the driving licence records of non-national drivers. The Minister is conscious that enforcing penalties for road traffic offences by foreign-registered drivers raises many legal, organisational and procedural issues that make it difficult for any state to enforce those penalties. For this reason, the Department of Transport is pursuing this question at the European, British-Irish and North-South levels, where mutual recognition and cross-border enforcement possibilities are under consideration. This matter was discussed today at the North-South Ministerial Council.

I thank Deputies for their contributions to the debate.

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his statement. I also thank Deputy O'Dowd for bringing this important motion before the House. It recognises that the impact of the penalty points system has been extremely welcome but notes with concern the weaknesses in enforcing the system that have led to a reduction in its impact on driver behaviour.

Any Government in Ireland faces a tough task in tackling road deaths and introducing road safety measures. We have a chequered past in terms of our efforts to recognise and solve this problem. Drink-driving and speeding were almost a way of life. Most no longer drive after drinking but, for many, the disincentive is less the fear of killing an innocent bystander, passenger or themselves and more the prospect of losing their licence or being subject to higher insurance premia. Our ambivalent attitude towards road safety has in recent years been replaced by generally more careful and concerned driver behaviour.

We all recall the dramatic positive effect of the introduction of penalty points on driver behaviour, with a 20% reduction in road deaths by December 2002. However, we seem to have lost the plot since. The question we must consider is why motorists began to speed again. Perhaps it is because they learned that enforcement of the system was not effective. There is no doubt that changes are required in the operation of the system.

Businesses throughout the State are concerned with offering a consumer-friendly and, in many cases, 24-hour service. Banks, for example, offer customers direct debit facilities and so on to make banking easier and more convenient. The penalty points system, on the other hand, is inconvenient and ineffective. There are inefficiencies in collecting data such that defendants are requested to bring their driving licences to court. As a publican, I appeared in court to answer charges of facilitating after-hours drinking and found it to be a harrowing experience. Court should always be the last resort. We must look more carefully at keeping people out of the courts system in the matter of penalty point fines. Everything should be done to ensure the system is consumer-friendly and efficient. I have no difficulties with fines being increased but court should be the last resort.

Up to 80,000 people have not paid their fines on time. This suggests there is something fundamentally wrong with the system. Deputy O'Dowd's motion seeks to address this imbalance and ensure the system is more user-friendly. The speed camera network has been promised for a long time and its inception, by late 2008, will be welcome. However, the increased provision of cameras will lead to the imposition of many more fines. This, in turn, will lead to an increased number of defaults that will clog up the courts system. This represents a waste of Garda resources and time. An independent entity should run the system on behalf of the Garda.

On the journey from the west to Dublin one encounters a motorway at Mullingar. It is nice to drive at 100 km/h and overtake as required. On a single lane carriageway, however, one may encounter lorries, drivers of which will not pull in to allow other motorists to overtake. I think it is against the law for them not to drive in the slow lane. People trying to overtake these are taking their lives in their hands because the vehicles are travelling at 30 mph. It can take nearly twice as long to get from my town to Mullingar, which is halfway to Dublin, than it takes to get from Mullingar to here.

It would be like shooting ducks in a barrel to put a speed camera in such a location and capture a car passing out a lorry. To overtake, a car might have to go to 60 mph or 70 mph and would effectively be breaking the law. There are many anomalies and until we upgrade the road network, it will be unfair on people without access to a better road transport system.

Outstanding fines could be collected through the car tax renewal process. We all have bank accounts or credit cards and perhaps fines should be added to the car tax renewal cost, even with a late penalty added. Fines can be increased but people should be kept out of court.

We fundamentally support the penalty points system and the downward trend in road deaths. The law should be amended and I commend my colleague, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, for bringing this very important motion before the House.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I will focus only on the preventative educational aspects of the issue. I have a few questions in that regard.

Before I ask them I acknowledge some locally-based and locally-designed intervention models. In particular, I put on record the efforts of a partnership approach in County Donegal which had a successful road show recently. There were participants from the ambulance service and the Garda, as well as families who lost loved ones and other people involved in car accidents. It was a very dramatic and hard-hitting road show. It should certainly be emulated in other parts of the country.

I have questions on the Road Safety Authority's role in working with the Department of Education and Science. How does the Road Safety Authority intend to work the mechanics of its proposals on education and awareness through the school system if there is no effort on the part of the Department of Education and Science to change the curriculum, redesign courses or introduce lessons into the school system?

Perhaps there is action behind the scenes of which I am not aware. It is required and must be done through a radical overhaul of the education system. We should bring driving instructors into classrooms to talk to 13 and 14 year olds and get such pupils started on the theory aspect of learning to drive. Instructors should also speak to them about the practical sides of learning to drive.

I visited Crana College in Buncrana in the past month and asked both male and female students what subject area they wished to discuss with me. They wanted to discuss cars, driving and test waiting times. These were 14 and 15 years olds. We have an opportunity to harness that energy in a positive way but the only way we can do so is by creating new modules, changing the curriculum and radically overhauling the system. Pupils would then be learning about a topic they are interested in rather than continuously being force-fed different aspects of the curriculum.

The curriculum has not evolved in the past 20 years. I was a teacher in 1993 and pupils are currently learning the same core subject topics which I taught then. They are still learning the same core subject topics that I learned when I took my intermediate certificate, as it was then known, in 1986. It is time we use education as a mechanism to overhaul the curriculum in a positive way.

We should start teaching the basics of driving skills at a practical and theoretical level by bringing the people who know how to do it into the system. We should not necessarily delegate such a task to teachers, as they are in schools to teach the sciences and arts to pupils rather than teach them how to drive. We should be radical and use this opportunity to overhaul the system.

At some stage, perhaps next week or in a fortnight or a month's time, we will be faced with another big issue of carnage on the roads, like the five young people unfortunately killed in Inishowen approximately two years ago. We will be faced with another sensational topic and everyone in the House will say how terrible it is. This week the issue was cocaine and a few weeks ago it was gangland murder.

We are becoming a reactionary House that acts on every issue sensationalised in the media. It is time to intervene and be positive and creative. We should be proactive in creating the society we want rather than reacting to every issue that is being sensationalised. We should be clear, constructive and radical in overhauling our education system.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I thank everybody who contributed to the debate as there were many constructive comments from all sides. I welcome all of them.

The key point in this Fine Gael motion, which the Government does not appear to accept and has failed to acknowledge, is our call on the Government to bring forward legislation as a matter of urgency to reform the penalty points system to ensure all fixed charge penalties are collected and enforced, and to reform the system that requires legally disqualified drivers to surrender their licences by giving the Garda responsibility for collection of them.

In the first six months of the year, 88,371 summonses were issued after the 56-day period had expired for people who incurred penalty points and did not pay the fine. Some 43,700 of those summonses were not served, meaning those people who incurred penalty points, did not pay the fine, did not get the summons and did not go to court. The system is in serious disrepute. Of the total number of cases issued, only 14,000, about 16%, ended up getting a fine. That is not acceptable.

There are other figures which should be brought to the Government's attention. There are 100,000 uninsured drivers on our roads, as estimated by the Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland. It is acknowledged by that body that such drivers cause over 2,000 injuries per annum and at least 20 deaths. They are responsible for approximately €45 on every car insurance policy per annum, so it is a very serious issue.

Another important figure should be raised. There are 126,000 people who have been given penalty points but they cannot be applied because these people have no licence. It is estimated that a significant number of them, some 108,000, are from out of State but the balance are here in Ireland.

It is often the same people who have no licence and no insurance. A significant number of people caught driving while talking on mobile phones are in the same category. There is a job to be done that has not been delivered by this Government, which has instead put its head in the sand. As others have stated, it is loading praise on itself rather than facing the truth.

Gay Byrne has served this country well in the past and is serving it well as chairman of the Road Safety Authority. That body is doing its job very well but there are critical issues ahead.

A significant point came out in a committee meeting today. Of all the carriers, such as buses, in this country, some 20% are not licensed, which is a serious matter. The Government should attack such issues. We will give credit for what has been done but the Government should not indicate it cannot accept our legislative proposals. We will put the matter to a vote because the Government does not acknowledge the reality. The Courts Service has stated the District Court system is grinding to a halt because it cannot deal with the summonses for penalty points coming before it. It needs urgent reform. If the Government keeps its head in the sand, the problem will get much worse.

Amendment put.

The Dail Divided:

For the motion: 74 (Dermot Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Seán Ardagh, Bobby Aylward, Joe Behan, Niall Blaney, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Seán Connick, Mary Coughlan, John Cregan, Ciarán Cuffe, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, John Cregan, Pat Gallagher, Paul Gogarty, Noel Grealish, Seán Haughey, Jackie Healy-Rae, Máire Hoctor, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Tony Killeen, Séamus Kirk, Michael Kitt, Tom Kitt, Conor Lenihan, Michael Lowry, Martin Mansergh, Tom McEllistrim, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, M J Nolan, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Darragh O'Brien, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Noel O'Flynn, Rory O'Hanlon, Batt O'Keeffe, Batt O'Keeffe, Mary O'Rourke, Christy O'Sullivan, Peter Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Noel Treacy, Mary White, Michael Woods)

Against the motion: 59 (Bernard Allen, James Bannon, Tommy Broughan, Richard Bruton, Ulick Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Joe Carey, Deirdre Clune, Paul Connaughton, Noel Coonan, Joe Costello, Seymour Crawford, Michael Creed, Lucinda Creighton, Michael D'Arcy, John Deasy, Jimmy Deenihan, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Olwyn Enright, Frank Feighan, Martin Ferris, Charles Flanagan, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Tom Hayes, Michael D Higgins, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Paul Kehoe, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, Pádraic McCormack, Dinny McGinley, Joe McHugh, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, Arthur Morgan, Dan Neville, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Kieran O'Donnell, Fergus O'Dowd, Jim O'Keeffe, John O'Mahony, Brian O'Shea, Jan O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Pat Rabbitte, James Reilly, Alan Shatter, Tom Sheahan, P J Sheehan, Róisín Shortall, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Joanna Tuffy, Mary Upton)

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Tom Kitt and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Amendment declared carried.

Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.