Dáil debates

Thursday, 15 November 2007

4:00 pm

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the measures he is taking in view of his stated desire for a debate on nuclear power, to bring about this debate; his policies in regard to nuclear power; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28985/07]

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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My position is clear and consistent on the question of a debate on nuclear power. I would welcome and encourage a debate on the issue. The appropriate forum for such a debate is the Oireachtas Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security. The committee will provide a forum for all parties in the House to contribute to a structured and informed debate on the issue.

For my own part, I have stated firmly on the record that nuclear power is neither sustainable nor the answer to Ireland's energy needs. Our position is shared by several EU member states and the European Commission has made it repeatedly clear that it is for member states to determine their own energy mix. The energy policy framework and the programme for Government make it clear that the Government fully intends to maintain the statutory prohibition on nuclear generation in Ireland. I look forward to working closely and constructively with the committee and its members on all matters relating to climate change and energy security, which encompasses all the key areas of energy policy.

The debate on nuclear power should be set in the context of the actions which the Government is taking to deliver fully sustainable and diverse energy resources in transport, heating and power generation. In each of the three areas of energy use, I believe that we have sustainable solutions. It is a matter of accelerating delivery on our targets for renewable energies and energy efficiency. In discussions that I had with Commissioner Andris Piebalgs earlier this week, the Commissioner fully supported our priority in these areas, which is also, in his view, the way forward for Europe.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Does the Minister accept that he is having it both ways in his approach to nuclear power? Depending on his audience, he says that he wants to encourage debate on nuclear power or that he totally opposes nuclear power. Will the Minister come down off the fence? There is no point in having a debate on nuclear power if the Minister is clear that it will go nowhere. A nuclear renaissance is clearly occurring globally, but surely it is not feasible to encourage debate, not to participate in it by triggering it, while opposing nuclear power anyway. Why would anybody on any committee in this House spend time and energy on a debate when the Minister is not willing to trigger it because he does not agree with it?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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It is confidence in my position that encourages me to have a debate and to recognise the need for a debate. This is a technical area that is very complex, with many variables in it. However, looking at the technical and energy reasons makes my case all the stronger. My case is that we should be moving towards energy efficiency and renewables as the key twin tracks of our energy policy in the future. I do not believe nuclear power will have a role in that. Such is the conviction of my position that I would prefer to have that debate on alternative sources to show what I believe is the right way to go. It is important to have it because in the absence of such a debate, there are people out there who might not have knowledge of the area. They might have a thought in the back of their mind that there is this magic solution, but we are not debating it because it is not politically correct to do so. They might think that if only we were not so blind, we could turn to it and all our problems would be solved.

A debate will show that nuclear power is not a solution and does not provide easy answers. It is incredibly expensive and takes a huge amount of time, and we have no skills in the area so why would we go in that direction? Having that debate, which I believe would show up nuclear power for what it is, increases the political and public support for what we need to do, which is invest in renewables and energy efficiency. That is why I would be happy to conduct such a debate. A debate will be conducted in the public and in the media at any rate because they think it is a politically sensitive subject. Desensitising the subject and talking about it does us a service in energy policy.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I remind the Minister that this is not about schoolboy debates, it is about governing, about being a Minister and having policies. I have no doubt he is genuine in his beliefs, and I pay tribute to that. The Minister says we should debate the nuclear option, knowing full well that he has no conviction in that regard at all, and it is just a bit too glib. The Minister has a clear policy view that nuclear power is not an option and we are already barred from developing it.

Photo of Johnny BradyJohnny Brady (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Deputy have a question?

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I suggest we get on to the real business and not embark on a debate that will lead nowhere. Such a debate lets the Minister off the hook when he might have a difficult audience to address and when he wants an opt out.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I commend the Minister on the way he is handling the debate and his leadership and decisiveness.

Photo of Johnny BradyJohnny Brady (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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A question please, Deputy.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Will the Minister agree that all the political parties should show their positions on nuclear power? I am getting mixed messages from different political parties and their members. For example, Jerry Shanahan, a member of the Labour Party, is in favour of nuclear power while another, Roger Cole, is against it.

Photo of Johnny BradyJohnny Brady (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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A question, please.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Are we to censor them?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Are all parties accountable to Deputy Finian McGrath?

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I am member of the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security. Will the Minister agree new ideas are needed in energy creation with the exception of nuclear power?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party are answerable to Deputy Finian McGrath in outlining their policies.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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They are answerable to the people.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Is it not the case that Ireland can receive the benefits of nuclear power through interconnection? As we increase our interconnection with the British grid, which is heavily reliant on nuclear power, and will be more reliant on it in future, in essence nuclear power will be competing with power generation in Ireland, from whatever source. Does the Minister have a difficulty with that?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The reality is that one cannot separate power sources in an interconnected grid. Contract arrangements can be made to ensure only a certain type of energy production is funded.

We do not need a debate for debate's sake. As we need massive change in the energy area, it makes sense to debate it to ensure certainty and clear commitment as to where we are going. That debate will not just centre on nuclear power. Unfortunately that is all they want to discuss when one goes to a television or radio station for a debate on energy production. We can get it out of the way by having a debate on it.

Other aspects of the energy debate include transport and how to provide bio-fuels and biomass for fuelling the transport system. There must be a consistent and long-term policy that will allow investors to develop alternative energy solutions.

In the past five years as a Member I have argued trenchantly on these issues and tried to highlight climate change and energy security. I have had no certainty, support nor direction from the Labour Party in these crucial energy issues. A debate may be useful to raise the level of understanding and knowledge to ensure a better policy outcome.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Does the Minister believe it is the duty of one party to support another? Is he aware the Labour Party has a well thought-out policy on climate change? I do not know if he has read it but maybe he could support us in this regard. I support his view that the real issues need to be examined but that there is no need for a debate on nuclear energy.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Such is the scale of change needed, it does not belong to any one political party. It should not be an area where political point-scoring occurs. It is an area that needs clear understanding because energy supply concerns the next four decades. Presenting a common understanding on broad energy policy parameters will assist businesses to make investment decisions. That is the befit of a proper debate and a common understanding that, as far as possible, can be reached on energy issues. I will work with the other parties not for support but for solutions for the people.