Dáil debates

Tuesday, 13 November 2007

7:00 pm

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I move:

That Dáil Éireann,

calls on the Government to radically modify the new proposed child care subvention scheme that the Government intends to become fully operational from 1 July 2008, as this scheme:

will impose intolerable financial pressures on many parents by increasing the expense of child care;

will force some parents to leave employment and become dependent on social welfare payments;

threatens to cause the closure of many not-for-profit crèches throughout the country;

presently renders it impossible for such crèches to recruit new staff on a permanent basis; and

undermines the prospects of returning to the workforce or the obtaining of essential training and education by parents presently working in the home who wish to resume employment;

and further calls on the Government to extend application of the existing subvention scheme up to 31 December 2008 to end the current uncertainty.

I wish to share time with Deputies Carey, Feighan, D'Arcy, Clune, O'Mahony, McHugh and McCormack. Perhaps the Acting Chairman will indicate when I approach 14 minutes in my contribution.

The Government has displayed stunning incompetence in announcing the new community child care subvention scheme that is to become fully operational on 1 July 2008. I acknowledge the new scheme will benefit a small percentage of community child care services, particularly in some disadvantaged areas of Dublin where a substantial portion of parents are recipients of social welfare or family income supplement. However, it will also have a profoundly detrimental impact on parents, children and the vast majority of community child care services established on a not-for-profit basis throughout the country. For children, many parents and community child care providers, implementation of the new scheme is potentially catastrophic in that it will make it financially unviable for parents to continue to use crèche facilities, and it will force some to make a choice between continuing at work or having children.

The question must be asked if the Government is attempting to implement a surreptitious "one child per family" policy such as currently exists in China. The new child care subvention scheme could be described as State-imposed family planning by stealth. Clearly, its impact is anti-family, anti-child and anti-parent.

As an instrument of economic policy it is entirely misconceived. The continued economic success of this country and our capacity for continuing growth remains partially dependent on the net immigration of workers into this country. As we have a growing elderly and greying population, and as the imbalance widens between those in employment and those retired, it is also dependent on our birth rate naturally growing. It should be an essential social and economic objective in this State, as in other member states of the European Union, that parents be encouraged to have children rather than discouraged, and that the economic impact of rearing a young family be mitigated or relieved, not made unnecessarily burdensome.

The impact of the Minister's proposals were very starkly portrayed in a letter written to The Irish Times by Oonagh Montague. I wish to quote some extracts from that letter. She states:

Today the Government made the decision for me that I shall only have one child. Up until now I had been trying to hold my ground against the grinding increases in all of life's necessities. Finally, my husband and I must admit defeat. The Government has introduced the Community Child Care Subvention Scheme. This will affect the crèche our daughter attends.

She goes on:

Whatever remains after child care is needed to pay bills. We do not go on sun holidays. Our car was born in 1995. We do not go out to dinner and the cinema is a rare treat. Like many of my friends, we live a rather frugal life.

She continues:

Up to now I thought I could muddle along. Now things have changed. This morning it seems the Government has won. This is one final increase we cannot overcome. So I can only have one child. I thought this was a decision I would make for myself. I will not attempt to express how this makes me feel. Sometimes there are not words to convey how hopeless this country's voters feel.

That letter very eloquently and starkly portrays the concerns of many parents.

The current scheme originally operated under the Equal Opportunities Child Care Programme 2000-06 and was co-funded by the European Union Social Fund. Through it, targeted support was provided through the staffing support grant scheme whereby community-based not-for-profit child-care providers were awarded grant aid towards staffing costs to allow them to charge parents limited fees for child care. This scheme, which originally was to end in 2006, was continued by the Government to the end of 2007, no doubt because 2007 was an election year. No detailed description of the newly-announced scheme was contained in any of the election manifestos of the Government parties. It was simply cynically announced a short few weeks after the formation of the present Government.

Funding under the present scheme provides universal supports for all parents who avail of not-for-profit child care services but the new scheme applies to a limited category of parents. In practice, only parents in receipt of social welfare payments or participating in community employment will benefit from an €80 weekly subvention in respect of full day care provision, and parents in receipt of family income supplement will benefit from a €30 weekly subvention in respect of such day care.

Many parents currently in employment and in receipt of modest earnings will be required to pay substantially higher weekly child care costs than those now incurred. This is because implementation of the new scheme will render it impossible for current services to continue without increasing charges to parents who do not benefit from subventions.

The announced new scheme has caused genuine alarm and stress to parents and has resulted in many genuine concerns being voiced by those involved in the provision of community child care services. These include Planet — The Partnerships Network, which is the representative voice of the 38 area-based partnerships, which work to promote social inclusion through the development of disadvantaged areas and communities. Such concerns have also been expressed by the Southside Childcare Action Network, Bawnogue Women's Development Group, St. Ronan's playgroup in Clondalkin, Catkin's nursery in Longford and others.

It is clear the scheme, if unchanged, will have the following detrimental impacts. It will impose intolerable financial pressure on many parents by dramatically increasing the expense of child care and it will force some parents to leave employment and become dependent on social welfare payments. It will undermine the prospects of returning to the workforce or the obtaining of essential training and education by parents currently working in the home who wish to resume employment. It places at risk the financial viability of many not-for-profit crèches throughout the country should it result in a reduction in the number of children availing of their services due to parents' inability to pay increased costs.

It will act as a direct disincentive to parents currently dependent on welfare obtaining further education and training so as to rejoin the workforce, knowing that if they do so, any financial benefit gained through employment will be entirely or largely offset by increased child care crèche costs. In some areas it will place at risk the social mix of children using specific crèches and will result in the overwhelming majority of children in such crèches deriving from parents dependent on social welfare and effectively segregate these children from others whose parents are in employment and who cease availing of crèche facilities, making arrangements for their children to be looked after by family members or friends.

The announced new scheme has already had a detrimental impact in so far as it has rendered it impossible for crèches to recruit new staff on a permanent basis in circumstances in which their future funding and capacity to pay wages of any staff recruited is entirely uncertain.

The new scheme as announced in theory becomes operative on 1 January 2008 but it will not apply to community child care facilities already funded under the current scheme until 1 July 2008. Over 800 services throughout the country are currently in receipt of staffing grant support under the current scheme and transitional arrangements have been put in place to maintain the current scheme for all existing grant recipients until 1 July next.

From statements made by both the Minister for Health and Children and the Minister of State with responsibility for children, it seems the reason for this transitional period is that the Minister for Health and Children announced the new scheme without having available to her essential information as to how it would work in practice, and without her Department first undertaking the necessary research to make appropriate judgments.

No clear data was obtained or maintained as to what was the actual level of disadvantage in respect of parents and children benefiting from the current scheme, which has been in place for four years. No research was undertaken to ascertain the profile of disadvantaged parents using the service or to determine the numbers removed from social welfare dependency to employment.

Although it was a condition of funding under the original scheme that a tiered fee structure apply to enable a broad range of parents and their children benefit based on their ability to pay and to ensure a good social mix, no adequate structures were put in place to ensure implementation of such a tiered system. Neither was any advance research undertaken to determine the impact of any proposed changes to the existing scheme.

Prior to announcing the new scheme, information should have been obtained from the service providers by the Minister to establish a profile of each service currently available in terms of the type of services provided, the profile of the parents using the service for their children, the operational costs and any other relevant data indicating a special need that requires a particular approach. Instead of first obtaining the information and then announcing a new scheme, the Government announced the scheme and is now seeking the information. Not only is this an extraordinarily incompetent way in which to administer public funds, because it confirms there was no proper monitoring of expenditure on the current scheme, it is also a scandalously inept approach to the formulation of crucial social policy affecting the rights and day to day lives of parents and children.

The reality is that in today's world for most parents to keep their heads financially above water, it is essential that both mothers and fathers are in employment. The truth is that we need more, not less affordable quality child care services; we must reduce the costs for all parents who need to avail of crèche and other child care facilities; we must apply the child-centred approach promised in the Government's National Development Plan 2007-2013; and we must implement policies which strongly support parents into and in employment. We should encourage a work ethic and not force parents to become welfare dependent.

The new scheme announced by the Government fails to reflect any of these principles. We have been told in this House that when the Government completes the research that is now under way, it will consider what amendments, if any, it can make to the newly announced child care subvention scheme.

The Minister has indicated that by February or March next, he hopes to be in a position to bring proposals to Government. We do not know if he will have funding for the new proposals, the content of the proposals, how they will affect parents and children or the capacity of the current crèche providers to maintain their services. The Minister at this stage does not know what he will propose as the Department must now consider and analyse detailed information received from over 800 service providers about tens of thousands of parents.

It is not good enough that the current uncertainty should continue. The new and amended scheme the Minister is considering announcing should be first published in draft form with a report detailing the information obtained from the research undertaken and the conclusions derived from it. There should be total transparency and, following publication, there should be a three month consultation period, following which the scheme the Minister proposes to adopt should be brought before this House for debate and, if need be, amendment. In the interim, the Minister should end the current uncertainty and announce that the current scheme, which is to continue on a transitional basis until 1 July next, will be extended until 31 December 2008.

I call on all parties in this House to support the Fine Gael motion and demand that the Minister address the current uncertainty and real concerns of parents and service providers who have contributed outstanding service to local communities in establishing not-for-profit facilities for children and who wish to ensure secure employment for their staff until at least the end of 2008 and to know where they stand. It is intolerable that the present situation should continue.

Photo of Joe CareyJoe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I strongly support this Fine Gael Private Members' motion. It has been obvious for some time that one of the most pressing needs of today's society is to support parents as they bring up young families and attempt to balance home and work commitments. The State must ensure that the hardships currently experienced by many families across the country are eased and a genuine choice is offered to parents.

Child care costs continue to soar — they have increased by 23% in the past two years. As the cost of living increases, many families with two working parents are locked into a vicious pattern of trying to make ends meet. It is time for the Government to listen to these families and to put them first.

Deep concern has been expressed about the new proposed child care subvention scheme by parents and child care providers throughout the country. Parents are rightly worried about the increase in child care costs and not-for profit crèche providers are facing the real prospect of closure . Newly built community crèches, which promised a better future, now face the real prospect of lying idle. With this, parents in receipt of social welfare payments will have little incentive to return to work or resume education or training if the scheme goes ahead as planned.

The calls for the scheme to be altered are loud, clear and comprehensive. In my constituency, I wish to highlight in-depth research carried out by the Clare community-based not-for-profit child care providers. Their findings, which represent the views of 18 community child care providers in County Clare, confirmed that if the scheme goes ahead as announced the quality and standard of existing services will suffer and child care places will be lost. The narrow definition of "disadvantaged" as set out by the proposed scheme will have the effect of creating a new poverty trap for those who wish to take advantage of new work opportunities, pay rises, seasonal work or education and training where welfare payments are not retained. The lack of consultation with those working within the sector on a day-to-day basis, even by the Government's standards, is a mark of appalling arrogance on the part of an increasingly out of touch Administration.

I will highlight two projects in County Clare which will be adversely affected. The first project is based in an urban setting and has 78 children. Parents of 59 of these children, or two thirds of them, are in receipt of social welfare payments. The total operating cost is €420,000, with expected fees of €280,000 and a staffing grant of €130,000, thereby leaving a €10,000 shortfall. Based on the current enrolment, the subvention allocated will be €75,000, which will lead to an annual loss of €65.000. To offset this loss, fees will have to rise by almost one third in most cases.

The second project is located in a rural area with no similar service for 20 miles. The centre caters for 83 children, who are charged €100 per week for day care and €40 for play-school. Based on the current proposals these fees will have to rise to €180 and €72 respectively, equivalent to an 80% increase. In practical terms these proposals will render this service unsustainable, resulting in a reduction in opening hours or a greatly reduced service. In such rural areas the consequences will be devastating.

I wholeheartedly support this Fine Gael Private Members' motion. I appeal to the Minister to listen to our argument. It is clearly not acceptable that parents on low incomes are expected to wait for four months for clarity on this issue. Parents and community child care providers, such as the one in County Clare, must not be left in the dark. The scheme must be amended. It is time for the Government to get back in touch with the needs of families.

Photo of Tom SheahanTom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Did the Minister of State have an input into the proposals put forward by his Department? As a rural TD, he must understand the repercussions of his proposals. Crèches in rural areas are not as efficient as those in urban areas. In rural areas, occupancy of 65% is common so it is impossible to work as cost effectively as in a crèche in an urban area.

In many cases both spouses are working, the mother is unable to find work three or four miles away and invariably must travel 30 miles in a car, costing up to €120 per week, to get to work. Who decides the percentage of income that makes child care affordable? This has not been addressed in the value for money report. Were the Minister of State's proposals to go ahead, such women would be obliged to leave the workplace and would no longer contribute towards their pensions. Given that this policy is being promoted by the Government, the proposal has not been thought through.

How will grants be calculated and distributed? I understand that grants are being calculated by the number of children in the crèche. My calculations suggest that grants are not being calculated on the basis of the age of the children in the crèche. I refer to the cost to the Exchequer. A total of 50% of a typical grant of €78,000 to a child care facility will return to the Government in PAYE and PRSI contributions. Consequently, accurate and reflective data regarding the actual cost to the Government should be obtained. I must also emphasise another point. A new child care facility has been built in my locality at a cost of €1.25 million. Were the Minister of State to proceed with his proposals, its doors would not open. We will be left with white elephants throughout Ireland.

This week I spoke to a lady who has two children under three years of age. She gets them out of bed every morning at 6.15 a.m. to reach the child care facility by 7.15 a.m. to facilitate her arrival at work at 8 a.m. She has a net income of €410 and her child care costs her €270. She works 40 hours per week for a take home wage of €140 per week. I ask the Minister of State and Members on the other side of the House to support this motion and to think of the mothers and their children nationwide.

Photo of Michael D'ArcyMichael D'Arcy (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should listen to the points made by my colleagues. The recent example cited by Deputy Sheahan reflects what is taking place nationwide.

As the father of two young children and someone who relies on crèche facilities, I am acutely aware of the crippling child care costs imposed on parents in the State. Such costs can be even more demanding on those who are disadvantaged. The proposed new child care subvention scheme must be altered radically in order that neither children nor their parents in disadvantaged areas are neglected. It is a scheme that was tabled cynically by the Government for commencement in the year after the general election because it knew the measure would not be welcomed. It knew it would not be popular because it is aware it does not help some of those it is designed to help most.

In this case, it may be appropriate to say, "suffer little children". However, not only will children in disadvantaged areas suffer, so too will their parents and those who provide care for them in their home localities. Effectively, the present EOCP programme was designed as a back to work scheme in order that those who aspired towards a better quality of life, job satisfaction and a sense of self-worth by contributing to the community and reinstating themselves into society, could so do without being completely crippled by those child care costs to which Deputy Sheahan referred. Child care costs in Ireland are the highest in Europe and have risen by more than 22% in the last two years alone.

The current scheme, which was designed as a back to work measure, could be replaced by one that does the opposite. Those people who gain from employment, which helps their quality of life, self-esteem and self-worth, may be obliged to return to a reliance on social welfare payments because the new scheme will not make working a viable option. Those who are struggling at present may find that the scheme increases unbearably the financial pressures on them. Those who wish to obtain essential training and education will find it to be increasingly difficult, if not impossible. Members should be encouraging women to return to the workforce, to increase equality in the workforce and to create an increased sense of equality for the most disadvantaged, who most need it.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, to the House and congratulate my colleague, Deputy Shatter, on tabling this motion. This is a national issue and the Minister of State does not require Opposition Members to inform him of this. The Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party had a robust debate on this issue and the Minister of State is aware that many of his colleagues are against the proposed new intervention and the new subvention scheme. However, the sad reality is that the Minister of State's parliamentary colleagues will back him tomorrow night in voting down the Fine Gael motion, which has been welcomed nationwide.

I attended a meeting in Letterkenny last night at which more than 200 service providers and parents were present. As the Minister has been involved in this game for much longer than me, the last thing he needs is some advice from a novice like me. However, as a rural Deputy or Minister of State, I advise him to take heed of developments. If this proposal is implemented on 1 July, this issue will be brought onto the streets. A campaign is being formed at present and the proposed changes are not going down well. I advise the Minister of State to intervene at this early stage.

The wheel was not broken, in that a bottom-up approach was in place whereby parents got together on a voluntary basis to work with service providers. Incidentally, those service providers worked on a voluntary basis at preschool for years as best they could under difficult circumstances. The advent of this scheme meant they could be rewarded for their work and could receive a wage. The devolved wage system that has been in use for the past six years worked and provided some credibility to the projects. In tandem with increased capital funding, there have been significant improvements in the manner in which young people are treated at a preschool level.

However, the Government proposals will take this away and will pull the carpet from under a working scheme. The scheme allowed children to sit side by side, whose parents were in receipt of family income support or social welfare benefits or whose parents were working at different levels of the income stream. We were getting rid of the stigmatisation of those who felt inadequate. Children were ready to enter primary school, where the sons and daughters of parents who were working would sit side by side with the sons and daughters of those in receipt of family income support and social welfare benefits. The Government's proposals will begin a process of segregation. A beautiful integration project was in place that operated on a bottom-up basis, was community and family-led and used the best possible practice. Young people with proper qualifications and training were involved and this scheme was working. However, the Minister of State is pulling the rug from under it.

Last September, as soon as I raised this issue, the Minister of State appeared on my local radio station one Friday evening to accuse me of being preposterous in my insinuation that the proposed scheme would not work. He came out with some sort of nonsense to the effect that funding would be increased by 16%. If this issue is considered at an economic level, there will be an increase in certain areas. However, how will such an increase take effect if, as my colleague, Deputy Sheahan, has noted, there will be white elephants dotted across the country? Such white elephants will lack both service providers and young people. This matter should be taken seriously and the Minister of State should heed the contributions to the debate from this side of the House.

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I welcome this motion which "calls on the Government to radically modify the new proposed child care subvention scheme that the Government intends to become fully operational from 1 July 2008". I do not take great pleasure in this issue. For the last five years, Members have spent time attending the openings of crèches. They have observed how, from the bottom up, parents, children and teachers who provided care, have worked together in many communities, a considerable number of which were rural, to ensure their area was not left behind in the provision of child care. Many of the parents involved have gone to work and are delighted that the operation of this child care scheme over the past five years has provided them with the opportunity to enter the workplace. It has generated great self-esteem among the parents and their children. However, the proposed scheme may force parents to leave their employment and become dependent on social welfare schemes despite what we have been trying to achieve for many years. I visited Dromahair last Friday night and met hundreds of people who were extremely angry about this new scheme. That it targets disadvantage is to be welcomed. However, it is affecting the new disadvantaged, those on middle incomes and those who need this scheme to get into the workplace, to get ahead and to ensure that their children have the best child care places before they start school.

There is a saying "When you are in a hole, stop digging". The Minister is listening to all the signals. He knows about the public meetings being held around the country. He can hear the ordinary people, who have no interest in politics but have an interest in the future provision of child care and in providing for their children, who are telling us that this scheme is against the best interests of their children. We must listen to that. It is all right for us when we are in opposition, but the Minister is in government and I know he hears his party's Deputies and Senators talking about this. They are embarrassed by this scheme. Deputy O'Rourke said two weeks ago that the Minister should not listen to his officials but should do what he thinks is right. The officials in the Department are only considering the bottom line and do not care about what happens in rural Ireland. I know the cupboards are bare and that a lot of things were promised in the election, but this time the Minister should listen to his backbenchers and the people at public meetings. If he modifies the proposed child care subvention scheme I will not say it is a U-turn but will welcome the fact that the Government has at last seen sense.

The scheme affects people in rural areas who must travel to work. We must address this. This new scheme renders it impossible for crèches to recruit new staff on a permanent basis. How can people get a mortgage or a car loan when there is a cloud hanging over child care provision? I ask the Minister to sit down with the members of his parliamentary party and talk about this. I ask him to do the right thing and reverse this disastrous proposal. I will welcome it when he does so.

Photo of Deirdre CluneDeirdre Clune (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I discussed this matter with the Minister of State many times in the past month, including during Adjournment debates. I am sure he is well aware that a series of public meetings have been taking place across the country. There was one in Cork last week and there was also one in Donegal. These meetings reflect the real concern that is out there regarding the proposed changes in the community child care scheme, particularly changes to staffing grants.

The community child care facilities have worked extremely well. I represent a constituency which contains a number of RAPID areas and the community child care providers I talk to work in RAPID areas. The child care facilities have proved to be extremely valuable. They are certainly doing what they are supposed to do in that they give those who are welfare dependent the opportunity to move on by availing of education and joining the workforce. The problem that has been highlighted is that of parents on low incomes who will be excluded from using these facilities and will therefore once again become welfare dependent. Thus, the new scheme will reverse the progress that has been made by removing the supports that were previously available.

Generally, mothers are the people who depend on child care to get out to work. People on low incomes who are working in supermarkets, department stores or the major shopping centres that have sprung up around our cities depend on community child care to allow them to go to work. If a person is coming home with €200 per week and her child care costs are €100, that is 50% of her take-home pay. If she is coming home with €400, that is 25% of her take-home pay. The cost of child care in real terms is extremely high. I do not have a problem with this as it is important that we have high quality staff and facilities. We certainly cannot avoid those costs and we need to invest in child care. However, we need to support people to allow them to enter the workforce and we need to support low-income workers. If people were allowed to include their child care costs to qualify for family income support the door would be open to many more people to avail of community child care facilities.

The Minister has extended the programme to July. Listening to the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Deputy Cullen, last week, I got the impression that there were to be changes to the scheme. There is an expectation that some changes will be made so I recommend that the Minister come forward with these sooner rather than later to avoid uncertainty and anger and to put the scheme on a proper footing so that people can move forward in the knowledge that there is certainty and that these valuable community facilities will continue to be available.

Photo of John O'MahonyJohn O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am glad to have the opportunity to contribute briefly to this debate on our community child care services and I commend Deputy Shatter and Fine Gael on bringing forward this motion.

There is deep concern among community child care providers across the country that the proposed new child care subvention scheme will only lead to greater disadvantage within our communities. The new scheme would lead to massively increased fees which people on low incomes would find impossible to pay. The result would be that many community child care providers would be forced to close. In many cases, people on low incomes will be better off not working so that they have access to cheaper child care. We should make no mistake about it, this new scheme is a disincentive for people to join the workforce.

We are told that the changes being introduced are targeted at those who are disadvantaged, but the reality will be that these people will also be faced with a doubling of fees. Meanwhile, the increase in fees will create a whole new disadvantaged section of the population who are unable to afford child care. Staffing will be affected, jobs will be at risk and trained staff will be lost, which will in turn affect the quality of the service provided.

There is genuine fear among all partners involved in the provision of child care at the moment. In many cases, people from families in which two parents have entered the workforce are telling me that one of them will have to give up working outside the home. Many representatives of community child care groups have asked me whether the purpose of this scheme is to close down the community child care system. They also say that the changes are being proposed by people who have no understanding of how community models work. We should remember that these services are being run in the community by voluntary committees of working mothers who have invested much time and energy in making the projects the success that they are. In many cases staff attend meetings, training events and information sessions without any remittance from their employers. In most cases employers cannot afford the cost so employees bear the cost of training and related expenses.

If something is not broken, why fix it? Instead of rewarding these voluntary groups with praise for a job well done and continuing the scheme, the proposed changes are pulling the rug from under the feet of the community. Under the new scheme, the role of the community representatives will be more onerous because they will have to collect sensitive data from parents who, in many cases, are their neighbours. This should not have to be done by volunteers. Small rural child care providers in such areas of Mayo as Killeen, Clare Island, Bangor Erris, Bofeenan, Ballycroy, Robeen, Ballyglass, Ballinrobe and Kilmaine, to name but a few, who have explained their case to me, say that they will close if these changes go ahead. If they close, it is not because they are inefficiently managed but rather because of these ill thought-out changes to the scheme. I strongly support the Fine Gael motion.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I do not know whether the Minister is serious about the changes in the child care subvention scheme. Up to now, child care facilities were co-funded under the Equal Opportunities Childcare Programme 2000-2006, but this will change at the end of the year. It is the responsibility of the Government to continue to fund this scheme in the manner in which it is currently being funded. If the Minister states that there is a 16% increase in funding, could he please explain, when he arrives, where this money is going? The reality on the ground does not reflect this. At present, parents are paying €32 per week for four days or €40 for five days of child care. Those same parents, if they are not on social welfare, will now pay €100 for a five-day week from July next. Apart from the hardship this extra expense will cause parents, there are two other negatives. First, as many of those community run child care facilities were set up to facilitate a parent, usually the mother, to get back in to the workforce, some of those may be on wages just above the threshold and will not be able to afford the increase in costs. In many disadvantaged areas of Connemara and Galway city those community based facilities enable mothers to return to the workforce and this change in funding will have a negative effect on such parents.

The second real danger is that with the increased cost many parents will no longer be able to afford to send their children to these child care facilities with the result that the facilities will close, parents will lose the benefit of being able to go back to work and the children will be deprived of the learning experience available in the facilities. I have personal experience of the benefit of such facilities in my constituency in Lettermullan, Lettermore, Clifden and Merview on the west side of Galway city. Many of those community child care facilities are run on a non-profit basis. My advice to the Minister of State is if it is not broken, do not fix it.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"notes:

the success of the Equal Opportunity Childcare Programme (EOCP) in establishing a childcare infrastructure in Ireland from a very low base, creating over 35,000 childcare places, which support not just parents in accessing employment, education and/or training, but also provide many young children with the benefit of early years education;

the role within that programme of the staffing scheme, which over 8 years provided a total of €174 million in supports for the running costs of community based not-for-profit services in disadvantaged areas;

that the staffing scheme was originally awarded to such groups for a limited period, in order to allow them become self-sustaining where this was possible;

that following this period, a number of such groups in very disadvantaged areas were awarded staffing continuation funding to the end of the EOCP, to allow them continue to reduce the fees charged to disadvantaged parents. A condition of this funding was the development of tiered fees, to ensure that the benefit of the grant aid went to the disadvantaged parents it was intended for. This also ensured that community services did not unfairly compete with private services for middle and higher income parents;

that a value for money review was conducted of the EOCP in 2006-07, which consulted with all stakeholders, including community childcare providers, private childcare providers, parents, and Government Departments. While largely positive regarding the scheme, it called for the current method of funding to be replaced with a less ad hoc and more transparent system, which would more effectively target funding to disadvantaged groups. The community childcare subvention scheme (CCSS) has been developed to provide this framework;

that the staffing scheme will cost over €37 million in 2007, whereas €153 million has been secured for the CCSS over the 3 year period 2008-10 starting with €47 million in 2008; and

in addition to this targeted support for disadvantaged parents, universal support is available to all parents towards the cost of childcare through child benefit and the early childcare supplement, and the latter alone costs over €400 million in a full year;

welcomes:

that on the announcement of the new scheme in July 2007, it was also announced that the current level of funding to services would continue to July 2008, to allow the collection of data which would allow costing of improvements to the subventions under the scheme, and that a series of regional seminars were held where this was outlined to community childcare providers;

that the large majority of groups have already returned this data, and the Office of the Minister for Children has started to collate and analyse it in order to advise the Government in regard to any changes or improvements which may be introduced, as promised last July;

the initial analysis of this data suggests that, under the new scheme, even with no subvention, the price charged to non-disadvantaged parents will be significantly below the market price of childcare, largely as a result of capital grant aid and the not-for-profit nature of the services in question;

a number of services, which already had a strong focus on disadvantage and had implemented the tiered fee structure, have contacted the Office of the Minister for Children to say that, having got the information required from parents, they will now have an increased level of grant aid from July 2008, regardless of any future improvements; and

the recent reiteration of the Office of the Minister for Children that this analysis will be completed early in 2008, and that enhancements based on the data will be presented to Government well in advance of next July;

endorses:

the Government's approach to supplementing universal supports to all parents such as child benefit and early childcare supplement, with additional supports to parents who would not otherwise be able to afford childcare and early years education for their children; and

the steps taken to ensure that this targeted funding benefits the most disadvantaged of children, who would not otherwise have access to such services."

I wish to share time with Deputies Calleary, Moynihan, Finian McGrath and Finneran.

Photo of Charlie O'ConnorCharlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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The community child care subvention scheme is a new support scheme for community-based child care services which is being introduced under the national child care investment programme, NCIP, 2006-10 and which will come into effect in 2008.

I am concerned at some of the negative reporting in recent weeks regarding the scheme which is undoubtedly causing some unnecessary concern to child care providers in the community sector and to parents and staff associated with these services. The Fine Gael motion, and the way it is being presented in some elements of the press, will contribute to this mis-reporting and the unnecessary concerns. I am pleased to have this further opportunity to set the record straight in regard to the community child care subvention scheme, which has the sole purpose of continuing to support the community child care sector. I am also pleased to have this opportunity to explain once again the deliberate and measured way, over a 12 month period, in which the new subvention scheme is being introduced.

Since the announcement in July of this year of the Government's decision to introduce the new scheme in 2008, two of the most significant points which I continue to make have been consistently overlooked or ignored. These are that the scheme has been designed to take effect following a 12 month transition phase, one of the key reasons for which was to enable an in-depth analysis of the scheme, as announced, to be undertaken. The fact that I intend to report back with the outcome of this process to my colleagues in Government in early 2008, appears to be something of a surprise to the Deputies supporting the Private Members' motion. That position has been outlined consistently since July last.

As I said in the Seanad last week, there appears to be an impression that the Government will walk away from its €1.1 billion investment in child care from 2000 to 2010, over half of which has been spent to date. There also appears to be an impression that the policy of putting community-based child care at the heart of our investment in child care will cease to be a fundamental principle of this investment despite the success of the Equal Opportunities Childcare Programme 2000-06 and the National Childcare Investment Programme 2006-10, much of which has been built on the contribution and work of community volunteers, as has been mentioned by Deputy Shatter and others. Nothing could be further from the truth and the new scheme is being introduced to continue this recognition and support for the community not-for-profit sector.

As Deputies will be aware, the new subvention scheme will replace the EOCP staffing support scheme which ends next month. The eight year EOCP, which has been co-funded by the Exchequer and EU Structural Funds, was the first major investment programme in child care in Ireland. It adopted a particular focus on disadvantage and the community not-for-profit sector was able to apply for 100% capital grant funding, up to a ceiling of €1.4 million per project, to develop community based child care facilities. Community child care services were also supported with current funding, under the staffing support grant scheme. This scheme made funding towards the cost of child care staff available, recognising that, even where the full capital cost of these projects was met through grant funding, and despite being non-profit bodies, community child care groups which were located in disadvantaged areas and which had a strong focus on disadvantage, might not be in a position to become self-sustainable in the short to medium term.

Specific funding was allocated under the scheme to assist community providers in their start-up years to target disadvantaged parents and their children using their services. The grant was given on a three year basis as a support towards the services' staffing costs. It took this form because supporting employment for child care workers qualified for grant aid under the EU rules governing the programme. The original three year funding under this scheme began to end for some groups from 2004 onwards. In most cases, where the community services receiving staffing grants were able to confirm their continuing focus on disadvantage, they were approved for continuation funding to bring them up to the end of the EOCP in December this year.

The ability of projects which receive developmental aid to become self-sustainable over time through funding support in their developmental stage, is an underlying principle of both the European Social Fund and the Exchequer. The principle of self-sustainability was built into the EOCP from the outset and has been an explicit condition of grant approval since 2004 when the continuation funding commenced. As a result, every existing EOCP staffing grant recipient has agreed to operate a tiered fee system which is tailored to the differing economic circumstances of their client group and which ensures that child care places subsidised by the programme are targeted towards those most in need. In effect, the grant recipients were required to use their grant aid to give a high degree of subsidisation to very disadvantaged parents, a lesser degree of subsidisation to less disadvantaged parents, and no subsidisation, other than the general benefit of the capital grant aid, to non-disadvantaged parents.

The new community child care subvention scheme will continue to be based on the tiered fee system. Under the new scheme, services will continue to receive grant aid on the basis that they charge fees to parents which relate directly to the level of subvention they receive in respect of particular parents. I should say that many community child care groups implemented effective tiered fee systems and complied with this requirement under the EOCP, thereby enabling disadvantaged parents to access child care at reduced costs. However, it is also the case that many services did not implement this requirement as envisaged under the programme and, for them, the new scheme will require them to review their current fee structures.

I can see that for community services which were not implementing an effective tiered fee system up to now, the new scheme may appear to be an intrusion into the way they operate their services. The comment could be made that the more structured approach under the new scheme, to ensure that all services implement effective tiered fee structures, should have been introduced earlier. It is a point that Deputy Shatter made earlier. I would not support this view as I think it was important that the EOCP responded in a developmental way to fostering and supporting the community services and their invaluable work and contribution to local child care services. However, as with any programme, in particular an innovative and developmental one such as the EOCP, in moving forward it is important to build on strengths and identify weaknesses.

The value for money review of the EOCP made recommendations for a new community support scheme under the NCIP, which it identified as a transitional programme which should complete the development of new child care services while longer-term child care policy would be considered in the context of a third child care programme for 2011-15. These recommendations emphasised the need for the NCIP community support scheme to be based on having effective tiered fee structures in place with appropriate minimum and maximum fees. In addition, eligibility for funding should be monitored on an ongoing basis to ensure all services move towards sustainability when this is possible and the new scheme should be less ad hoc, more structured and transparent, and better targeted on appropriate groups, including socially excluded groups.

In considering those aspects of the staffing support scheme which could benefit from more structured and transparent systems and criteria, it is clear that a more consistent approach is required in determining the level of grant aid and the way it is used, than was the case under the EOCP. In order to qualify for the staffing grant scheme, community child care groups were first required to show that they were located in a disadvantaged area, with CLÁR and RAPID as the two key indicators in this respect. After that, the group was asked to demonstrate in its grant application that it would adopt a strong focus on disadvantage. This was largely a self-reporting system with no clear data, particularly as time went by, on the level of disadvantage in the services. Clearly, with the economic upturn and high employment rates now enjoyed in Ireland, the profile of disadvantaged parents using the services has, possibly, changed considerably and the increase in employment is welcome.

As the profile of services in receipt of grant funding changed over time, different services responded in different ways. Many services implemented effective tiered fee structures enabling the broad range of parents and their children to benefit based on their ability to pay and ensuring a good social mix. Where services did not implement an effective tiered fee structure but charged reduced fees across the board, in some cases this resulted in very low fees for all parents, including non-disadvantaged parents, sometimes leading to an inability to compete on the part of other, non-subsidised private sector providers in the area. Where services combined the grant aid with their increasing ability to collect more substantial fees and adopted a higher, across the board rate, this often resulted in a very high quality of service provision, but one that was outside the reach of the disadvantaged parents for whom the grant aid was intended.

Another weakness of the current scheme is its non-transparency and the fact that the broadly drawn criteria resulted in a high level of subjectivity in the assessment of grant applications. There have been cases where applications from services with very similar levels of disadvantage and service provision were approved for substantially different levels of funding. Again, the subjectivity of the criteria was not assisted by the degree of self-reporting on which the system relied. In addition, the current scheme penalises large-scale services which have very disadvantaged profiles, as the level of grant funding is capped and disadvantaged parents using a community service which is not located in a disadvantaged area could not avail of the subsidised fees as the scheme is defined by reference to the area rather than the parent.

All of these issues highlight the fact that in meeting the needs of the existing grant-aided community child care sector, as well as moving forward to any future child care programme of initiatives, we need to address a series of diverse and complex issues. However, the fundamental principle which must guide us in meeting these needs, and at the same time further developing child care policy, is that we ensure that we find a fair and equitable approach to targeting disadvantaged parents using community child care facilities which is underpinned by transparency and accountability.

The new scheme has been portrayed widely as a cutback in funding for the community sector and for disadvantaged parents and their children. Nothing could be further from the truth and the new scheme has been given a total funding allocation of €153 million over three years. This means that in 2008, some €47 million will be available to the new scheme while €37.25 million was available under the EOCP staffing scheme in 2007. This substantial increase in funding is intended to ensure that the greatest number of children and parents using community-based child care services benefit. The truth is that, in the absence of sufficiently hard data to enable my office to accurately quantify and cost a more generous scheme under the new, more transparent arrangements, it was decided to identify the most disadvantaged categories of parents at the outset. Clearly we could not disregard these parents and start at higher income levels but, equally, we could not commit to a scheme which goes beyond the most disadvantaged categories until we are in a position to accurately quantify and cost the outcome.

This is the essential reason an innovative, transitional approach to the introduction of the scheme was adopted. As more than 800 services are currently in receipt of staffing grant support, the first priority was to continue funding for these services during the transitional period. All of the existing grant recipients who apply for funding under the new scheme will receive their existing level of funding during the first half of 2008. To date, applications have been received from approximately 75% of the existing grant recipients and these are being processed as quickly as possible by my officials. When the first priority of informing these services that they have been approved for funding under the new scheme has been completed, work will begin on the detailed analysis of the services in terms of the type of services they provide, the profile of the parents using the services for their children, the operational costs, and any other relevant data which might indicate that a special need exists which requires a particular approach to be adopted.

My officials and I have stressed at every opportunity that this data is essential to enable the assessment of the scheme, as announced, to be undertaken, and that the urgency with which this is being undertaken is to facilitate the existing services to move to the new scheme without disruption. As I stated, the first priority is to inform the services that they have been approved for transitional funding. After that, the analysis of the data will be completed and I will be considering the various issues which emerge so that I can meet my commitment to report back to the Government in early 2008. Subject to the Government's decision and any changes agreed, my office will then be in contact with the services to advise them of their new funding level, based on the information provided with their application and the final details of the scheme. I hope to see this process fully completed by the end of February or early March 2008.

Clearly, I cannot be specific in advance of any Government decision as to what changes will take place. However, I reiterate that the scheme will be implemented in a way which maximises the outcome for parents and their children using community child care facilities and that the funding which has been provided for this purpose has been greatly enhanced.

8:00 pm

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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It is my pleasure to speak in support of the amendment. It is important that we stand back to reflect on where we have come under the equal opportunities childcare programme. A total of 35,000 extra child care places that did not exist in 2000 have been created with an investment of €500 million. It is on that basis that we move on to the new programme outlined by the Minister of State. The figures are quite staggering. The sum of €575 million has been allocated with a target of creating 50,000 extra child care places. Combined investment of approximately €100 million will lead to the creation of 80,000 child care places. With that kind of investment on the part of the Government it was essential to have a value for money audit. It is important in every way that the reporting would be tightened up so that everybody involved in managing the sector could be assured the investment was being targeted in the proper direction.

It is important to reflect on the Minister of State's remark that the scheme is under review. The review will be based on the returns that were due to be submitted last Friday week. Those returns will show the exact level of disadvantage among the current clients of the community child care scheme. Based on the information given in the returns, we will then be able to make a proper assessment and adjudication of the new scheme.

From my experience of the sector and from what I have heard from constituents in recent weeks, it appears the data from the forms will reveal flaws in the new system. The jump from band B to band C, from families on family income supplement with a certain level of support, to virtually no support under band C, is too severe and restrictive. I am confident when the data come back they will show a large numbers of families which are not eligible for FIS, but which will need support. The national child care investment programme will require the benefit of a higher subsidy than is currently on offer in order to allow people to maintain their place and to keep working.

The data will show that in some areas and in some facilities the original aim of the programme has become skewed and that children are in facilities enjoying rates that were intended for families who are disadvantaged or on low incomes, whose parents are able to afford a higher rate. The places they are currently occupying are at the expense of other children.

The new system presents a particular difficulty for child care facilities in rural areas. I refer in particular to the minimum numbers required to access the grant and retain viability. As a rural Deputy, the Minister of State, Deputy Smith, appreciates and understands this point. It should be possible to provide an administration grant for rural facilities whose geographic catchment area is probably quite large but whose population centre is quite small, which are forced to look in many different directions in order to fill the places and maintain the viability of the centre. This option should be examined for rural services whose viability could not otherwise be maintained. The grant could be subject to conditions in regard to quality, service need in the area and the capacity to deliver.

There is significant concern among organisations and committees involved in running child care facilities about data collection. Even though the data required is quite basic, and is information that is freely available to many people, there is an understandable concern about information getting into the hands of the wrong people. The data collection aspect of the scheme should be transferred to the county child care committees or even to the Office of the Minister for Children so as to take the local manager out of the data collection system altogether. This approach would ensure we would still manage to acquire that information.

It appears people have forgotten about the allocation of the child care supplement of €2,000. In many centres this payment should be diverted to supplement the payment of child care. The Government must reflect on this payment and redesign it in the context of the new scheme.

The Fine Gael motion is premature. It is only two weeks since the deadline for the submission of the data from all the centres around the country, which will no doubt provide proof for the various claims that have been made. Given that much of that data will not get back to the Minister before next February, I suggest this motion is premature. I am confident that when the data come back, the Minister will act in the interests of the community sector but, more importantly, in the interests of disadvantaged children and parents to ensure they continue to have access to the places in the community child care sector and that they can continue to work, should they wish, while using the facility. I am confident that given the level of investment in the previous programme — €500 million is a great deal of money — the Minister will ensure white elephants are not created in some of the fantastic centres that have been established.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate on child care. I commend the many magnificent crèches and child care groups that are doing excellent and valuable work. If we are serious about tackling child poverty and educational disadvantage, the focus of the spending must go to the most disadvantaged children who would not have access to such services.

I welcome the provision of €37 million in 2007 and the €47 million for 2008, starting after Christmas. These are major progressive developments and to say otherwise is misleading. I especially welcome the extra funding that will go to the most disadvantaged children and families in Dublin North-Central. I raised these issues in my talks with the Taoiseach and I am glad to see some of them being rolled out in this debate.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Is there anything for which the Deputy does not claim responsibility?

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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On a wider level, I welcome the extra funding of €88,441 in information and communications technology grants for 18 schools in my constituency and the additional funding of €108,377 for Dublin North-Central schools. I have also seen in recent weeks €1,165,485 being provided for a disabled housing project in Coolock, the setting up of the Greendale school for autistic children on the north side and extra educational services in the Marino area. These are all clear strategies to improve our educational services for children and a direct attempt to build a future for our young people.

An examination of the detailed figures in this debate will show that €153 million spent over the next three years is a massive investment in child care for the poorest sections of our society. Investing in child care and education is an investment in the future. It will create a better chance for our children and enable them to make choices that can sustain them for the rest of their lives and make them valuable members of our community.

I came into politics through the community and voluntary sector and these are issues concerning my broader vision for this country. Child care and quality education are the engine room of any future economy and will improve the quality of life for all our people. I also welcome the fact that on the announcement of the new scheme in July 2007, it was also announced that the current level of funding to services would continue to July 2008 to allow the collection of data, which would allow costing of improvements to the subventions under the scheme, and that a series of regional seminars were held at which this was outlined to community child care providers. The initial analysis of the data suggests that under the new scheme, even with no subvention, the price charged to non-disadvantaged parents will be significantly below the market price of child care largely as a result of capital grant aid and the not-for-profit nature of the services in question. As well as this, a number of services which already had a strong focus on disadvantage and implemented the tiered fee structure have contacted the office of the Minister for children to say that having got the information required from parents, they will now have an increased level of grant aid from July 2008 regardless of any future improvements. In other words, the most disadvantaged will gain more in this debate. That should be our focus.

We must build on improving child care services to ensure that all our children are cherished equally and every child in this State gets a good chance in a lifelong learning process. It is only then that we can all say there is equality in this area.

Photo of Michael FinneranMichael Finneran (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate on child care and the success story that is child care support in this country. The Government has directly promoted the development of preschool infrastructure virtually from scratch, so to speak. We should be proud that since 2000, the European Union has supported the equal opportunities child care programme which means that many mothers have been in a position to go back into the workforce knowing there is a child care facility available to them to care for their children. That programme has been a success and to date more than 35,000 new child care places have been created in the community, not-for-profit and private provider sectors.

A total of €500 million has been invested in that programme and we now move into the national child care investment programme. It is important to state that this programme is being financed entirely from the Exchequer. In fact, it is being funded by taxpayers. It is important that we establish that——

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The mothers of the country. If they want to work they must have their children minded.

Photo of Michael FinneranMichael Finneran (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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——ensure there is fairness and that people who cannot afford child care are given priority as regards this programme.

The programme will be of support to people in disadvantage and I am keen that should be the case. In some cases it has been suggested that people on low incomes will not be in a position to avail of this programme. I disagree with that wholeheartedly. This issue is a very different one. What has happened in some cases is that well-salaried people are using community child care facilities. They are availing of the same services at the same cost as those who are disadvantaged. That is not appropriate in terms of fairness or an equal playing field.

Child care facilities are now set up throughout the country. In my constituency we are very proud of an investment of more than €10 million in the child care programme in recent years, with wonderful facilities and more than 900 places in the county. We are proud of the community services and the private providers.

The one concern people have is the Civil Service getting involved in this programme to such an extent that a bureaucracy will be created. That is something we do not want and the Minister must ensure that does not happen. He should keep the support system for community child care simple to ensure those people are in a position to avail of the grants in the best interests of the people involved.

The ordinary taxpayer is conscious of the enormous amount of money that will be invested in the coming years up to 2010. They want to see that this money will go to the people who need it. The debate has focused somewhat on people who are on social welfare. That is unfortunate and it is a turnaround from what we had previously because the original programme, the equal opportunities child care programme, was aimed at getting people back to work. The new programme should not be aimed at people on social welfare. It must ensure those people who returned to work are in a position to stay there because they got the opportunity of having their children cared for. It is important we identify with low income families and ensure they are part of the new regime of supports in the child care programme.

I am very pleased the Minister showed common sense by allowing the 12-month period when this programme was announced. I have met and consulted many groups in my constituency and asked them to forward documentation to me — I will forward it to the Minister — outlining any difficulties they see in the operation of the programme. Any pitfalls or difficulties that may arise will be identified between now and next May or June. It is important that child care providers co-operate with the Department to tease out difficulties in the interest of child care provision until 2010.

Statements concerning cutbacks in child care are inaccurate and should not have been made.

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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There is a €750,000 cutback.

Photo of Michael FinneranMichael Finneran (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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During the next year, the child care programme will receive a 16% increase. Deputy Finian McGrath welcomed the €47 million made available for 2008. The Opposition motion is political opportunism. It should submit appropriate proposals to the Department instead of making a political issue of it. People in many constituencies are making all kinds of statements and hyping something that will not be concluded until July 2008. In the interests of a proper analysis of the child care programme, the way in which it is to be funded and who will receive grants, it is important to have a balanced and open debate with all of the available information, including that provided by child carers to the Minister and other public representatives. We want one of Europe's best child care facilities.

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I would like to share time with Deputies Penrose and Ó Caoláin.

Photo of Charlie O'ConnorCharlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Listening to the debate has been interesting rather than enlightening. The previous speaker was not lobbied as ferociously as the rest of us. Not for the first time, light was originally cast on this issue in Cork. Public representatives were asked to attend a public meeting last week by the Early Years Network, an umbrella group in Cork city and county. The meeting made it obvious that the cutbacks in community child care would ensure that the people to whom the previous speaker referred would not be able to afford child care in their communities.

I do not know who stated that there are lies, damned lies and statistics, but it is a combination of the three in this instance. Statistics are being used to tell a lie. Am I allowed to say "lie"? I am, as the Acting Chairman did not stop me.

Photo of Charlie O'ConnorCharlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am being tolerant, but the Deputy should not repeat herself.

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The Acting Chairman is from Tallaght, so he is tolerant. There is a difficulty regarding the amount of funding in the next tranche. According to the Department's figures, funding of €500 million in the first tranche provided 30,000 places. It is hoped the next tranche's funding of €575 million will provide 50,000 places, but the Government has not made the initial 30,000 places sustainable. People are expected to sink or swim, which is what former Deputy, Michael McDowell, tried to do while he was the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. He was stopped in his tracks by the outcry and furore the proposal engendered among the public, a head of steam that is rebuilding.

According to the previous speaker, the Minister is so caring and good that he has allowed a year's lead-in and consultation, but that is not the case. When the programme was first published, the time cited was January 2008. The Minister extended that to next June because of the type of representation put in place last week in Cork. I worry when something is extended to June and implemented in July. As we know, the Government will be on holidays and assuming that others have done likewise, meaning we cannot address a matter until the following September or October. The cutbacks will ensure that people on limited incomes who are not in receipt of social welfare payments, including the family income supplement, will not be able to afford child care in their areas.

As for the statement that we have a magnificent child care system, the 30,000 places are good because expertise and provision has been built up, but to say they will be sufficient to address demand is outrageous, ridiculous and untrue. Events in Dublin and certain areas of Cork will recur, namely, the provision of child care will be ghettoised so that only the children of the poor will receive child care or early childhood intervention. This is not what good child care is about. It is not only about early educational needs, but also social interaction.

The Government does not care about good quality child care. It is only interested in stretching its money as far as possible. If I worked in a crèche and knew that my provision for next June would mean a decrease from ten workers to four workers, I would not wait in hope until then were I to see another job on the horizon. I would move on. We will lose expertise and the people who provide excellent care.

Today's Evening Echo carries a story of a young mother. The headline reads "I can't afford to have more children". The Government forced people into the workplace because the economy demanded it. This was not bad. The Government does not care about children and will not provide the type of child care needed by the women in question. Eventually, they will say that they can take no more and that they are going home.

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I rise as someone who does not need to depend on empirical or anecdotal evidence because I am the only Deputy present who is a director of a not-for-profit child care body. I am also a member of the Westmeath County Childcare Committee.

I am flabbergasted to hear the likes of Deputy Finian McGrath speaking in riddles and rhymes. Are they behaving like ostriches and are their heads buried in the sand? Why would Sr. Finbarr in Mullingar, who has worked with the disadvantaged and marginalised for many years and who is involved in child care, attend a public meeting and state that the scheme proposed by the Minister will be a disaster? The Deputy spoke about someone who is at the coalface of child care provision to ensure lone parents get opportunities to return to the workforce. The best route out of poverty is through a job. Many lone parents, low income parents and parents on social welfare payments have found this to be the case. It is a truism.

The way the scheme is structured will create a poverty trap. The minute one tries to improve oneself, everything is lost. No one should tell me about it because I work in this area. I will give the House our scheme's evidence. Our child care facility has ten workers and 50 children or so, many of whom have moved on over the years and are now putting their own children into the facility. It is a high quality, accessible and affordable system. It is not-for-profit and complies with the regulations and stipulations. It has been visited by environmental health officers and public health nurses. It must meet all the conditions and eligibility criteria. The scheme under which we received the money under the equal opportunities child care programme will be €70,000 short after the changes proposed by the Minister. As a director of a not-for-profit child care facility, a limited company, I will have an obligation to double the prices to ensure it is properly run and no reckless trading is involved. That will be all right for a few people who are well off but what about those who are on social welfare? Subvention will be fixed and they will have to find more money to pay for child care. That is nonsense.

I cannot believe this scheme was approved. The only reason it is being reviewed is because its financing has moved from the European to the national Exchequer. This scheme was overseen by the Department of Finance. There was token consultation. We were not consulted. Many who use these crèches are the working poor who work hard from morning to night, leave their children in, pay substantial mortgages, pay for child care and transport to get to their jobs and are left with little on which to survive. It is time the Minister woke up to this fact because he does not realise the damage that will be done. Why would all the facilities in my area from Rathowen to Dromard in Longford to Kenagh, Kinnegad and Ballynacargy be up in arms? Why is there a mass uprising? The scheme must be reviewed. It must be put on the back burner. The Minister must ensure a proper scheme that allows affordable child care be put in place.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The debate on child care we should be having is about how to ensure the best care for our children, including in the home, at school and in crèches. We should debate how the State can support such a caring system and how it can be delivered to all who need it on the basis of need alone. Instead, once again, we are addressing a critical situation, a botched Government scheme that has thrown the community child care system into chaos. This need not have happened. If the Department of Health and Children had consulted the community child care sector when it was framing a new scheme and if it had listened to what it was told by those on the front line of child care delivery, this situation would not have arisen.

The Government's approach has led first to confusion, then serious concern and now alarm among thousands of child care workers and parents. The proposed new community child care subvention scheme is fundamentally flawed. Throughout this State over recent weeks community child care workers and parents have been meeting to organise against the implementation of this scheme in its present form. It requires radical and fundamental reform.

In my constituency child care workers at Farney community crèche in Carrickmacross, County Monaghan, have predicted that if this scheme goes ahead many parents will pull out of the crèche and it will have to double its fees. Like other such child care facilities, it could be forced to close, resulting in loss of jobs. Farney community crèche has provided affordable child care in Carrickmacross for more than a decade. It has allowed many parents, especially women, to take up the opportunity for jobs and training. This is under threat.

The Farney experience is replicated right across the Twenty-six Counties. From Donegal to Wexford and from Dublin to Mayo, the community child care subvention scheme has provoked intense opposition. The Minister of State with responsibility for children, Deputy Brendan Smith, is aware of this. I met him recently in the company of other County Monaghan Oireachtas Members when he was lobbied by representatives of the community child care sector in our shared constituency. Without exception those representatives made clear to the Minister of State their strong objections to the scheme.

In response to the widespread alarm at the scheme the Minister of State has indicated that the subvention will not be confined to parents in receipt of social welfare. This may be the beginning of a U-turn or it may not. It has certainly caused further confusion. The scheme has been clearly signalled to community child care workers as one designed for recipients of social welfare payments. The application forms filled in by parents and collected by the crèches reflect this original design of the scheme.

Last week my Dáil office received a briefing from officials in the Minister of State's office. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, for that opportunity. However, the briefing confirmed that the scheme will go ahead as planned and that it is based primarily on subsidisation of child care costs for parents in receipt of social welfare. In addition, the officials informed us that the application forms received will be assessed to ascertain the overall profile of parents using crèches subsidised under the equal opportunities child care programme. We are told that based on the assessment, the Government will decide how widely to extend the subvention beyond those on social welfare. The Minister's office indicates that a decision on a new income threshold will be announced in February.

The Government has felt the need to respond to the upsurge of opposition to this scheme but it is unclear what the outcome will be. It is essential, therefore, to emphasise again the key points of objection to the scheme as it will remain essentially the same scheme and with the same negative consequences. Nobody disagrees with the stated intent of the scheme which is to make child care more accessible for low income parents. Too many families still cannot gain access to child care owing to lack of affordability. This has serious consequences for children and for parents who wish to improve the lives of their families through part-time or full-time employment. Far from meeting these needs in a fair manner, however, the new scheme, if implemented in its present form, could lead to a two-tier child care system. We could have one tier of crèches for people on social welfare and other low income families and another tier for those paying the full cost. The application procedure has already placed an excessive burden on often small community child care services that operate with few staff and feel overwhelmed by the bureaucracy that has landed on their desks.

I emphasise again that there are already clear indications that this new scheme will lead to fees being increased significantly for those not on social welfare and it could also lead to crèches closing if they do not have sufficient numbers on social welfare on their books. This scheme will undoubtedly drive many parents, especially women, back out of work and into social welfare dependence. They will find that as they are not on social welfare they will not qualify for child care subvention and will face higher child care fees. This will eat up their income and they will conclude that it is not worth their while working. They will lose the opportunity to work and the community child care facilities will lose them as clients.

We call on the Minister of State with responsibility for children, Deputy Brendan Smith, to suspend the introduction of the new scheme, extending the EOCP in the meantime, pending full consultation with the community child care sector. I emphasise that full consultation is crucial. We need to get this right and not put in place a flawed system that could cause untold problems in the future and would be very difficult to unravel. The Minister of State may well decide to extend the subvention, for example, to those with the full medical card. The difference between the social welfare and the medical card thresholds would be marginal. However the danger is that this would be presented as a major concession and extension of the scheme and that would not be the case. I hope the Minister of State will note this fact because if that is the area in which he is considering extending the remit of the scheme it will fall significantly short of what he needs to do.

The scheme is fundamentally flawed. We should move towards universal provision of preschool child care. This scheme moves us in the opposite direction towards a two-tier structure that mirrors our grossly inequitable two-tier health service. Sinn Féin has set out its vision of how the State should address this important issue of child care. We believe the Government should have the following goals and should work to achieve them within a definite timeframe.

Debate adjourned.