Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 86: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance if the abandonment of a proposed decentralisation project by him represents a shift in Government policy on decentralisation; and the deadline he has set for implementation of the proposals on State agencies. [23772/07]

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no shift in Government policy on decentralisation. The programme states that the Government will continue to move ahead with decentralisation and ensure that no public servant is obliged to accept decentralisation against his or her wishes and that promotion opportunities remain available.

I assure the Deputy that this remains the case and that the Government has not abandoned any decentralisation project. I assume the Deputy is referring to the relocation of posts to Kildare town by the Office of the Revenue Commissioners. The Revenue decentralisation project to relocate 380 posts to Kildare town will go ahead. The chairman of the Revenue Commissioners wrote to me outlining some business continuity issues regarding the relocation of that office's full information and communication technology, ICT, function to Kildare town. I agreed in principle to an alternative mix of 380 posts for the Kildare location and have asked the chairman to submit a formal proposal setting out a revised mix of posts.

The decision to consider an alternative mix of functions that Revenue will relocate to Kildare town is further evidence that the decentralisation programme is vibrant and flexible enough to adapt to changing business needs as they arise in the detailed implementation phase while ensuring delivery of the commitment to the towns included in the programme.

With regard to the State agencies, the decentralisation implementation group, DIG, noted in its most recent report that the pace of progress on the State agency part of the programme continues to be slow. The Government has always recognised that this aspect of the programme presents different challenges from that of the Civil Service but is determined to make progress towards the objective of moving the State agency posts as announced. I anticipate considerable progress on this element of the programme over the lifetime of the Government.

The decentralisation implementation group has always emphasised the central role of the board and management in each agency in driving the decentralisation programme forward. The group considers that all agencies should now, at a minimum, have initiated HR recruitment policies to support the programme, begun to put phased timeframes in place and be actively securing advance and-or permanent accommodation solutions in the decentralised location.

The Labour Court, in a recent recommendation relating to the dispute between FÁS and SIPTU, stated its belief that the policy of effecting decentralisation on a voluntary basis could best be achieved if individuals who are unwilling to relocate are provided with realistic alternative career options. The court went on to say that it believes that the appropriate authorities should address the issues arising in the broader context of decentralisation of non-commercial State bodies overall.

This aspect of the Labour Court finding is very much in line with the previously expressed view of the decentralisation implementation group. The Labour Court recommendation provides a renewed opportunity for both unions and management to address the relevant issues and my Department has been in contact with ICTU to explore how progress can be made on this aspect of the recommendation. As I have previously stated in the House, I remain confident that, through dialogue and negotiation, progress can be advanced.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

In the meantime, the decentralisation information group has asked my Department to analyse each specific location to assess the overall number of posts to relocate, the full potential pool of applicants if transferability between agencies were in place in the future, the scale of the remaining staffing gap and available options for filling the gap. The group has also asked for an update on the scope for individual agencies to form advance parties in the new locations. In this regard, issues surrounding the costs and business effectiveness of a dual location over the transition period will need to be examined.

The group is also continuing with a series of meetings with the CEOs of individual agencies and the Secretary General of the parent Department in each case.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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It is an innovation to see a proposal on decentralisation being abandoned because the business case for the proposal did not stand up under examination. Does the Minister agree that one of the problems with the decentralisation proposals as published was that no business case was presented for any of the moves? Is that not, therefore, the reason we see zero progress with regard to the State agencies? The Government did not present or consider the business case. It is not surprising then that these agencies are moving at a snail's pace, as admitted by the Minister.

The Minister says "appropriate authorities" need to make suggestions about how the process can be moved forward. Is the Minister not the appropriate authority? It is up to him to make an offer on transferability of people working in State agencies so that some career possibilities are available for people who want to remain in Dublin. However, he has made no move whatsoever to break the logjam and that is the reason there is no progress on State agencies.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would not agree there has been no progress whatsoever with State agencies. There has been some, but it has been slow. One of the reasons for the slow pace is the industrial relations issue outlined by the Deputy, which was only recently resolved in the context of a Labour Court recommendation between FÁS and SIPTU, when the issue arose in connection with FÁS.

With regard to the Revenue move to Kildare town, as the Deputy knows, the idea is to move headquarters, including ICT facilities, to various locations. The issue in this case was that the ICT unit was to be moved to Kildare town, while maintaining Revenue headquarters and staff in Dublin. The Revenue Commission brought this to my attention. It has been very successful in all its decentralisation processes to date and all its previous moves worked well. It is one of the best examples of what can be achieved with determination and good will to proceed. I was prepared to listen to the case put forward by the Revenue Commission, on the basis of an alternative mix, which would see up to 380 personnel move to the town concerned.

With regard to State agencies, the Labour Court now suggests that the appropriate authorities, which include people in my Department, the public service with responsibility for moving forward the process, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, stakeholders, partners and the social partnerships, should consider the situation of State agencies generally, rather than segment each State agency to see how decentralisation can be brought about for it in isolation from the other agencies. The full range of infrastructural capabilities existing within the State agencies concerned should be considered. I believe this is a sensible approach.

The decentralisation implementation group has been suggesting this position. The problem was that we could not engage on the issue because of the outstanding industrial relations issue, which was before the Labour Court and the Labour Relations Commission over the past months and years. That issue has been resolved and certainty has been provided to staff that nobody will be asked to move involuntarily and alternative career opportunities will be offered to those who do not wish to move. The only way we can advance beyond this is by taking up the second part of the recommendation of the Labour Court, which is to enable a discussion to take place that would examine everything taken together. Having written to congress and with congress meeting in executive committee, I am sure it will come back to me as soon as possible with suggestions as to how we can start that engagement, which I regret has not started already.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I call Question No. 87 in the name of Deputy Richard Burton.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I wanted to ask a supplementary question.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We are more than a minute over time. I will allow a very brief supplementary question and ask the Minister to be very brief in response.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The truth is that in some cases we have no volunteers for any of these programmes four years on, yet this process is supposed to be completed. The Minister has made no suggestion to the people he says have to make a move. It is up to him to do so. It is a Government programme, yet the Minister is making no suggestion to the people concerned. That is the problem. The Minister must show leadership; it is not for the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to deliver Government policy.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy is aware, an initiative cannot be taken when an industrial relations issue is the reason no one is engaging. That issue has now been dealt with. I have written to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and asked for discussions to take place quickly.

Regarding the agencies involved, they have established a presence at nine locations, although not to the degree one would seek.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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They are all new recruits and staff on promotion. That was never the intention of the decentralisation programme.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The intention was to move that many posts out of Dublin, including existing, new and recruitment posts.