Dáil debates
Wednesday, 4 April 2007
Leaders' Questions
10:30 am
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It seems as if the Progressive Democrats has moved into primary position today. This is the time of year in many parts of the world where people look at their lives and examine what it is we have done and what it is we have failed to do. The Tánaiste is in the right place at the right time. Deputy Rabbitte commented yesterday that the Taoiseach's performance might be the last time he took leaders' questions from that position. It might be more relevant in the Tánaiste's case.
I would like to ask him about a number of broken promises. I could mention the promise to end hospital waiting lists by 2004, or the promise to spend taxpayers' money wisely, when the country was given electronic machines and PPARS. I could mention the broken promises in the Tánaiste's own portfolio, where, under his watch, murder is up by 43%, gun crime is up by 39% and rape is up by 25%.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The only thing going down seems to be the detection rates. The Tánaiste pointed to an end to the revolving door system in prisons, yet 3,000 prisoners were let out of jail early in 2006. I could ask him about all those promises, but I will not.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Standing Order allows for one question on a topical issue.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Tá sé ag teacht. I want to ask the Tánaiste about the biggest promise he made. This time five years ago, he gingerly climbed up a ladder on a lamppost in Ranelagh and said "Single party Government? No thanks." It was one of the pictures of the decade. Will the Tánaiste outline what exactly he has done to prevent single party Government, given that there is an endless list of broken promises in which he was involved?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am deeply grateful to the Deputy for not asking all the other questions for which I was prepared. I will answer the question for which I am totally unprepared, which is about what I have done to prevent single party Government. The people of Ireland chose the Government on the last occasion, not me. The people of Ireland will have the opportunity in the coming months to choose another Government.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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They will choose it again.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Tánaiste to speak.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Just like on the last occasion, I am absolutely confident that they will take a long, hard look at those benches and say "No thanks".
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Deputy Kenny will not be in a position to put questions to either the Taoiseach or myself after the election not because he will be on this side of the House, but because of other events.
Fergus O'DowdMichael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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People sometimes forget the situation that existed when the Deputy and a number of others around him were sitting at the Cabinet, while Deputy Rabbitte was sitting at the high chair of the Cabinet table as a half Minister.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Unemployment was 10.6%——
Dan NevilleMichael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——and it drove thousands of people to the unemployment exchanges every week. That rate of unemployment toppled governments across western Europe.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Is it in order to tell lies?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We created 1,000 jobs per week.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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That is the rate of unemployment and underperformance——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Stagg is not entitled to make any remarks, but he will have to withdraw the word "lies".
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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You must withdraw the word "lie" unequivocally.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I did not use the word "lie". I was asking you a question, a Cheann Comhairle.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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You did use the word. I am asking you to withdraw——
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I was asking you a question about whether it is in order for the Tánaiste to tell lies in the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy want to leave the House? You will withdraw the word "lies".
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I know you do not like the word "lie", but is it in order to tell lies?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will withdraw the word unequivocally.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I did not accuse anybody of anything.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Are you withdrawing it?
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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What do you mean? I asked you a question and I am entitled to do so. Is the Tánaiste telling lies?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, you are not entitled to intervene. You are not entitled to accuse any Member of this House of telling lies.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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You used the phrase "telling lies" and I ask you to withdraw that, Deputy.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I did not. I asked you a question.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am asking you to withdraw the allegation that a Member was telling lies.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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What do you mean? I made no allegation.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I asked you a question, namely if it is in order for the Tánaiste to tell lies in the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is an allegation that he was telling lies.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It is not. It is a question addressed to you.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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You will have to leave the House if you do not withdraw it.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Must I leave the House because I asked a question?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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You made an allegation and you will have to leave the House.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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You are being stupid, if you do not mind me saying so. I withdraw the word "lie".
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will leave the House.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I withdraw the word "lie".
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Right. He has withdrawn the word "lie".
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If the people of Ireland want a demonstration of how poor a Government consisting of the parties opposite would be, they only have to look at that performance. Arrogance, deceit and incompetence all rolled up in one.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is merely a mudguard for Fianna Fáil.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy raised the question of the achievements of the partners in Government. I remind the Deputy of something before I go on to our achievements. This is a special year.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We do not want a history lesson from the Tánaiste.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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It is the year in which Deputies Kenny and Rabbitte collectively will be 50 years sitting in this House. I have attended meetings throughout the country and asked audiences to name one achievement by either Deputy at any time in those 50 years. Nobody can give me an answer.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste has never managed to be re-elected.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He will be climbing up the poles again soon.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Not merely are they an underachieving combination but they have no achievements to their name.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is ranting.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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What do the focus groups say about the Tánaiste?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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When asked on RTE radio last Sunday what he could point to in his career in politics that was an achievement for the Irish people, Deputy Kenny said he had improved the St. Patrick's Day parade.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He kept it on the same date.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If we had to wait 20 years for that, God knows how long we would have to wait for any other achievement.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is hallucinating again, it is a serious condition.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps Members of the Fine Gael Party will allow their leader to submit his question without interruption.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am glad of the history lesson from the Tánaiste. In his previous political life, he was special adviser to a former Taoiseach, although he might not use that term. We could talk about what happened in the 1980s, or even the 1970s and 1960s.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The time that Fine Gael doubled the national debt.
Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil trebled it.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is irrelevant to where we are now. The Tánaiste is the deputy leader of the Government. As such, he is partly responsible for the 40,000 operations that were cancelled in the past two years.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is partly responsible for the 29,000 people who cannot meet their consultants because of endless waiting lists. He is partly responsible for the length of accident and emergency waiting times. He is partly responsible for the failure of the Government to reduce class sizes, even though the Minister for Education and Science knows that more than 100,000 children are in classes of 30 and more. He is partly responsible for bringing in the cross-compliance form for farmers, which has 1,460 boxes to be ticked.
Meanwhile, the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, crows in Portlaoise about all the things he has done and will do. That is the type of nonsense the Progressive Democrats speak in this House, giving us their legal lessons from the Four Courts. The Tánaiste is obviously worried and desperate if he is asking questions about Fine Gael at meetings throughout the State. I do not know where these public meetings take place because there is no record of any of them.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Fine Gael Party is holding séances in the evenings.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In the midst of the Taoiseach's difficulties last year, it was the Tánaiste who said behind his hand to him that they had managed to get through it.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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They got away with it.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It was the Tánaiste who put the poster on the pole with the message "Single Party Government — No Thanks". In the wake of the Taoiseach's difficulties, the Tánaiste told the Irish people he would see to it that new ethics legislation would be introduced quickly in this House. He said that to save his own bacon because of his carry on and the fact that he desperately wanted to hold on to power. The good lady beside him would not have acted that way and neither would her predecessor. The Tánaiste did so because he has a craving to be in power and in the limelight. He does not understand that he above anyone else should see that commitments he has made to the public are honoured.
Where is the new ethics legislation that he promised publicly to the people? There are reports on this in today's newspapers. I notice the Tánaiste has to be advised by his Whip as to the status of his legislation. It is like the answer the Taoiseach gave yesterday to Deputy Rabbitte's query about promised legislation, that it is somewhere along the corridor.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste made a commitment in this regard. Where is the legislation? What are the issues in respect of which his party has prevented Fianna Fáil from being a single party Government?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Kenny to give way to the Tánaiste.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The electorate will give its answer in seven or eight weeks' time to the range of promises that were broken by him and his cronies.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Kenny cannot get into government.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There will be a new Government shortly and it will not be led by the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am loath to interrupt that babble. It is because I am follically challenged that I can say the Deputy is having a bad hair day.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste had a few of those himself.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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In regard to the specific ethics provision, which I understood the Deputy would raise on the Order of Business, that has been approved by Cabinet and will be brought before the Houses of the Oireachtas.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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It will be brought forward as soon as may be and the House will have an opportunity to debate it. The Deputies should relax, it is coming.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is a failure.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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He is only a mudguard for Fianna Fáil.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste's arrogance does not make for good legislation.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Cabinet approved the text of the Bill and Deputy Kenny knows it is coming. He has merely rattled out a series of assertions. There are questions he does not want asked — his only direct question to me was when this ethics legislation will be brought before the House. It is the next legislation that will come before the Seanad shortly and it will come to this House thereafter.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is always tomorrow.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is a total failure.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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He will not be here in three weeks' time.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Rabbitte should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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When we were kicked out in 1997, more than 9% of people were unemployed. That was better, however, than the 14.2% who were unemployed in 1992 when the Progressive Democrats Party was kicked out. Deputy Kenny and I may have chalked up 50 years between us but the Tánaiste would be well on the way to that number if his constituents had not given him a long holiday every time they saw his performance in this House. I might have been on the high chair at the Cabinet but there is a good chance the Tánaiste will get the high jump from the people once more, as has been his habitual record.
I wish to ask the Tánaiste about a file he received last year from the parents of children with special needs in Drogheda. The organisation in question, Special Needs Active Parents, represents 64 families in Louth and a smaller number in Meath. In this file, these parents set out that there are 139 children under six years of age and 350 between six and 18 years with spina bifida, cerebral palsy, autism and several other disabilities in their area.
This file, which was sent to the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, explains that these children cannot access occupational therapy and speech therapy service. There is one occupational therapist, who was appointed only a year ago, to serve these children. The need for these services is recognised by the HSE, which says there should be one occupational therapist per 15 children. The reality, however, is that there is only one full-time occupational therapist for these 490 children and provision for a half day a week for another occupational therapist who sets up the special equipment.
The file includes parents' harrowing letters detailing how their children are affected. One child, for example, who is named and whose parents are willing to be named, was born on 18 February 2003 and diagnosed with spina bifida and hydrocephalus. Since birth, he has received only four sessions of occupational therapy. His parents state:
Our children do not have time on their side and we, as totally worn out and frustrated parents, can only do so much.... A lot of us, myself included, have given up paid employment to be at home full time with our children.
Did the Tánaiste read the letters or any one of them and did he reply to them? Has he taken any action in response to that file? Can he explain why, given his view of us having more resources than we need, those parents are left in that limbo land without the services acknowledged by the HSE for their children with those particular disabilities?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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As the Deputy knows, one of the functions of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is to take charge of the promotion in these Houses of the legislation which was necessary to deal with the disability area. The Deputy will be aware that last year the Minister of State with particular responsibility for disabilities, Deputy Fahey, and I put in place the sectoral plans to deal with all aspects of disability and the statutory basis for all of those plans to be implemented. Ireland has one of the most advanced laws on disability. The entire disability sector was brought into a very lengthy process of consultation on how we would tackle the various facets of disability in our society. We put through the disability legislation and the sectoral plans. These were published and became the responsibility of individual Ministers with their own sectoral plans in each area.
The correspondence to which the Deputy refers would, of course, have gone to the equality section of my Department and would have been considered there by the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, and fed into the process which led to the disability legislation being enacted and the disability sectoral plans. This year a sum of €800 million, up 30% on previous funding, is being spent on special needs education. This year we are increasing very substantially the number of occupational therapists in training. As part of the overall expenditure in the health area, the Health Service Executive is getting major increased resources to deal with specific cases of the kind the Deputy mentioned, such as parents whose children are afflicted with the tragic condition of spina bifida. We were speaking earlier about Deputy Kenny's comparison with ten years ago and Deputy Rabbitte's comparison with the unemployment rate of ten years ago. If one considers what has been done in the lifetime of the two Governments, in which the current parties are partners, it is clear there has been a dramatic transformation.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Did the Tánaiste ask them?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If one looks to the amounts of money spent, €1 million extra was provided for disability in 1996 when the Opposition was sitting in that high chair. That was the extent of the munificence of that highly successful Government.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I know about the Minister.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Opposition left the disabled children of Ireland high and dry.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Tánaiste to reply without interruption.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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One would be ashamed——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about the kids?
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste was forced by the courts——
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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A Cheann Comhairle, has your clock stopped?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Tánaiste to respond without interruption. Deputy Allen is not the leader of the Labour Party and I ask him to allow the leader of the party to hear the answer to his question.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Opposition would be ashamed collectively if it was reminded of how many special needs teachers there were when its party members sat at the Cabinet table.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about the kids?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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This year we have announced a five-year disability plan with an extra €900 million going into that area. Under the disability legislation, each child is entitled to have an individual education plan put in place.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste should tell them that.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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They are not getting it
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Each child is entitled to an independent appeal if that child's parents regard the plans put in place as inadequate.
Joan BurtonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is not the leader of her party.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The simple fact is that when Deputy Burton held office in my Department nothing was done by the Labour Party or Fine Gael for people with disabilities in this country.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is a disgrace.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I thought the other man who is usually in that chair would say anything but, by God, he is only in the ha'penny place with this guy. The Tánaiste fed the file into the system. Did he read any of the letters?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Did he reply to any of the letters?
Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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He is too important for that.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Tánaiste said that ten years ago we did nothing. Those children are aged three and a half and four and a half years. They were not born when we were in government. If the basis of our exchanges are to be what happened ten years ago, from the man who said he would abolish stamp duty because we did not need the resources, what is the point in telling these parents we have the most advanced laws? Where are the services? It is not about law. There is one occupational therapist for 409 children. The parents in acute distress take the trouble to prepare and send a file to the Tánaiste in the belief that he took the equality part of his portfolio seriously and he does not even bother to acknowledge it——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time has concluded.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——let alone take any action on it. He has the sheer brass neck to get up here and point the finger at the party that caused the Department of Equality and Law Reform at Cabinet rank to come into existence.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The first thing the Tánaiste did when he came into office was to abolish it, take it under his own wing, and from that day to this he has not paid the slightest regard to it. What does he have to say to these parents who in desperation gave up their jobs to care for their children with disabilities and who are desperately seeking services which the HSE says are an acknowledged unmet need?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time has concluded.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He comes in here trading political insults as if we were back in the literary and historical society. When will the Tánaiste take his responsibilities as Minister seriously and give us less of the rhetoric and bombast and tell the mothers of these children when they can expect to get physiotherapists, occupational therapists and speech therapists? That is the issue.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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For stunts the Deputy has no equal. He comes in here——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste to reply without interruption.
11:00 am
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy should turn off the moral outrage, it does not suit him. He comes in here and asks me from memory whether I read individual letters a number of years after the event. I cannot give him a truthful answer on that because the volume of correspondence in my Department is such that if I did answer that question one way or the other, the file could show that I did see it or that I did not see it.
Damien English (Meath, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste said he did not.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I did not say that.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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How did the Tánaiste know he had the file?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I did not say that. I am careful with what I say unlike Deputy Stagg.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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There were services for ten years.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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It is not rhetoric and bombast to point out that when the Deputies opposite were in office they did have a Department called the Department of Equality and Law Reform.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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And a Minister who believed in equality unlike the Tánaiste.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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As Deputy Michael D. Higgins is not the leader of his party I ask him to allow the leader to hear the answer to his question.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Unfortunately it is true that its record regarding the disabled children of Ireland was pitiful and shameful and no significant resources were put into that area at all.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Tánaiste was there before that.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste signed the letter about the children. He then forgot about them. They mean nothing to him.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Tánaiste to continue without interruption.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Between 1999 and 2002, I had the privilege of seeing the Minister, Deputy Cowen, and others at the Cabinet table saying the time had come to remedy the disgraceful legacy the Opposition had left in place——
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Did he not say "If in doubt leave them out"?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——and that money must and would be found for children with disabilities.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Tánaiste must be joking. He never stopped to tackle them.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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This Government has ploughed record resources into dealing with disability.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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He is the Minister for inequality.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If they are going to shout me down, that is fine, a Cheann Comhairle.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Tánaiste to continue without interruption, please.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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No Government has engaged in a more dramatic transformation of the resources available for people with disabilities than this Government.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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It did not come down to where it counts, on the ground.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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When we came into office——
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The Minister still will not answer the question.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If Deputies are going to shout at me, that is too bad.
John PerryMichael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am not sulking.