Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the cost which accrued to his Department in respect of the Moriarty tribunal during 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43908/06]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the procedures in place in his Department for dealing with requests for files and information by tribunals of inquiry; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43909/06]

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the first report of the Tribunal of Inquiry into Payments to Politicians and Related Matters. [43952/06]

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the action he will take arising from the first report of the Tribunal of Inquiry into Payments to Politicians and Related Matters. [43953/06]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the costs to his Department of the Moriarty tribunal since its establishment; the projected costs for the completion of the tribunal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1130/07]

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the costs which have accrued to date to his Department in respect of the Moriarty tribunal; if an estimate is available as to the expected total cost; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2076/07]

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach his views on the first report of the Moriarty tribunal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2355/07]

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach the action he will take following the publication of the first report of the Tribunal of Inquiry into Payments to Politicians and Related Matters. [4437/07]

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach the cost to his Department during 2006 in respect of the Moriarty tribunal. [4438/07]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach his views on the first report of the Moriarty tribunal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7810/07]

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 10, inclusive, together.

My sole responsibility as regards the Tribunal of Inquiry into Payments to Politicians and Related Matters is in the facilitation of its budget from my Vote. The first report of the Moriarty tribunal was made to Dáil Éireann in accordance with the terms of reference under which it was established by the House. I have no responsibility for and am not in a position to answer to the House on the content of the report. In so far as the findings in the report may require action, such as improving oversight mechanisms, I refer to my statement to the House on 14 February 2007.

The total cost incurred by my Department in respect of the Moriarty tribunal from 1997 to 28 February 2007 was €27,071,138. This includes fees paid to counsel for the tribunal and administration costs incurred since its establishment. The total payment made to the legal team was €20,882,453 to 28 February 2007. The total cost in respect of the Moriarty tribunal for 2006 was €3,897,559.

The administration costs for the Moriarty tribunal, including counsel fees, are met from my Department's Vote. Issues in this regard which may be raised from time to time by officers of the tribunal are dealt with in the normal course of business by my Department. From time to time, there have been requests by the tribunal for records and files and my Department has submitted these. It will continue to co-operate with the tribunal in making available any records sought. Normally, these requests are received by the Secretary General and assigned to the appropriate departmental official by him. All are dealt with on a highly confidential basis as required by the tribunal.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The last time the House discussed the Moriarty tribunal, 90 minutes were allocated to the debate. In the course of that, the Taoiseach indicated that the practice of signing blank cheques was undesirable.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise with these questions. These questions are addressed to the Taoiseach in his capacity as Taoiseach, not in his role as leader of a party.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Did I ask a question yet? I made the point that the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, had said in his contribution on the Moriarty tribunal that his practice, when he was a Minister and involved at administrative level for the Fianna Fáil Party, of signing blank cheques was undesirable. That is what the Ceann Comhairle pulled me up on. Maybe after last weekend——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Strictly speaking we should not be discussing the report of the tribunal.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——the Ceann Comhairle wants to react quickly.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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These questions are very limited in terms that they concern the Taoiseach's responsibility as Taoiseach.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Where are we now?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I do not know about that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, that is quite limited.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Standing Order 33——

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We do not get much information from the Taoiseach as it is.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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He will probably call the election now.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In fairness, does money really matter after last weekend if one considers——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair's concern is to implement Standing Orders. For the benefit of the House, Standing Order 33 is very specific. It states:

Questions addressed to a member of the Government must relate to public affairs connected with his or her Department, or to matters of administration for which he or she is officially responsible....

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree. An allocation of fees of €2,500 per day is a matter of public affairs.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes, costs are in order.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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At the time, a national newspaper stated the number of persons receiving an allocation of €2,500 a day should be strictly limited. The Taoiseach and the Government requested a reduction in the fees payable to lawyers dealing with the tribunals. What is the current status of the request? Will it be implemented?

It has been reported that the second report of the Moriarty tribunal will be available by the end of the year. Does the Taoiseach agree that such a timescale can be met?

What is the position on the allocation of costs for persons who have had their costs deferred? A small number is involved. What is the Taoiseach's position on the view that this was a fraction of those who deserved to have their costs withheld?

In respect of persons who deliberately delayed the workings of the tribunal, what action, if any, is to be taken on that, or is that an area on which the Taoiseach has a view?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the completion of the work, I understand the entire work of the Moriarty tribunal, including the report, will be completed in the calendar year of 2007. As we have done in some of the other tribunals, on that basis it will be allowed to complete its work under the existing arrangements. I understand the public hearings are finished. I have been told by my officials it is possible there could be a limited number of days of public session hearings but that is a call for the tribunal.

The work on completion of the report has started or is about to start. The tribunal should be able to commence preparation of its report in a matter of weeks from now. It is not possible to indicate when the second part of this report will be finalised but it should completed in a matter of months. The entire tribunal work will be finished during the course of 2008.

We must respect the right of each sole member to exercise his discretion on what can be appropriately included by a tribunal in regard to a matter in advance of the determination of costs for third parties. Having regard to his anticipation of issues, he will have to adjudicate on them. I understand that at the end of the report the sole member will have to adjudicate on the costs and decide whether people co-operated. He will then make a decision on those costs and probably take submissions on the fees. I understand this will be certainly an issue.

Regarding the cost of the tribunal, I provided €10 million in this year's Estimates to cover the cost of the report, publication of it and some element of the award of legal costs as well as administrative costs and legal fees. However, it is inevitable that the settling of the claims for costs that will be awarded will almost certainly continue into 2008. I expect to have more specific insight into liability for the third party costs but it is unlikely I will have that information until the Estimates for 2008 are formulated.

The work will certainly be finished this year as well as probably some aspect of dealing with the third party costs but it is likely, according to the view of my accounting officers, that the decision to pay the full costs or to decide on it based on the disputes, arguments and submissions that may be made around those costs will go into next year.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach have any information or view on the tribunal imposing costs on persons who deliberately or dishonestly held up the working of the tribunal? What will happen in such a case, of which, clearly, there are a number?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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According to the rules covering the tribunals, we have seen already that in some cases costs have been issued by some of the other tribunals. If a tribunal is of the view that somebody has not co-operated — I think that is the word they use because people are legally entitled to challenge it, therefore such a challenge would not be considered a delay in terms of not co-operating because people are entitled to do that — it can refuse costs. A few of the tribunals have done that in regard to other costs. I am not sure if this arises in the case of the Moriarty tribunal; I am not aware that it does.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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In terms of costs, does the Taoiseach think that we got value for money in this report? Mr. Justice Moriarty found that Mr. Haughey stole taxpayers' money from the leader's allowance and that the Taoiseach facilitated it by writing blank cheques.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot discuss the contents of the report.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach think he got off lightly?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not for me to judge whether you got value for money. I have already congratulated Mr. Justice Moriarty on his work.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I will ask the question again. Does the Taoiseach think, since he facilitated the theft of taxpayers' money——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot go down that road with these questions.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Why not?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Because we are not discussing the report of Mr. Justice Moriarty.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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We were given no opportunity to ask questions on it when it was before the House and the Ceann Comhairle told us we could table questions. This is the first opportunity to table questions.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are opportunities in the House, for example, during Private Members' business, when the Deputy can raise the issue. This question is governed by Standing Order 31.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is shameful and partisan. The Ceann Comhairle is telling me that we can table questions for Private Members' business. How can we do so?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can raise the issue during Private Members' business; I did not say to table a question for Private Members' business.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is it now the case that the only facility in this House to ask a question about the nine years of work of the Moriarty tribunal is during Private Members' business?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Standing Orders apply to Deputy Rabbitte in the same way as they apply to the Chair to implement them.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about the costs?

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle applies them to me as the subject matter dictates.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have read out the Standing Orders to the Deputy.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It is an entirely partisan position.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a point of view.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Has the Taoiseach any regrets now regarding the disingenuousness of his reply when he told my predecessor, former Deputy Spring, that the cheques were supervised by a senior party member and he did not identify the fact that——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, the Chair has ruled on this matter.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——he was the member at issue? How does he reconcile his words on the tribunal with his conclusion on another occasion——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Rabbitte, I ask you to obey the Chair and to obey the Standing Order. The Chair has ruled in accordance with the Standing Order that it is not appropriate to discuss the report of the Moriarty tribunal during these questions.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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In my opinion that is an outrageous ruling.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That may well be. The Chair is not interested in what the Deputy thinks; all I am asking is that the Deputy obey the Chair and the Standing Order.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I am asking about the costs. I am asking whether it is the Taoiseach's view that we got value for the taxpayers' money expended on this report. Can the Chair think of a way to rule that question out of order?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair did not rule out that question.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I would therefore like to hear the answer to it.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will answer both questions. I have dealt with the matters in the report which relate to me in answers to questions from the tribunal and that is the appropriate manner. I am happy the tribunal accepted my evidence and was satisfied that I had no reason to believe the leader's account was operated otherwise than in an orthodox fashion. I am also pleased the tribunal stated in a report that it is noteworthy that at my insistence, amendments have since been made in the governing of the leader's allowance accounts. I have already dealt with the matters relating to the conduct of Mr. Haughey.

With regard to the costs of the tribunal, I have already congratulated Mr. Justice Moriarty and his staff on bringing the long work to a successful conclusion. They are currently working on the remaining part of the report which is expected to be passed this year. The other point made by the Deputy is in accordance with the facts.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach recommend or believe that——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy Rabbitte, I have called Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I beg Deputy Ó Caoláin's pardon.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have called Deputy Ó Caoláin. I will call Deputy Rabbitte again.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In his response to the questions the Taoiseach has indicated a certain level of fee payment. Does this suggest to him that anything at all like the order of overall fee expenditure in the Mahon case will be reached, as speculated by the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell? The figures cited suggest a figure much lower but this is not to suggest it is any more acceptable. What is the Taoiseach's position on the decision to introduce the lower fees as of 31 March 2007, which is later this week? Will that position be honoured? How many times now has a decision been taken to allow for the higher fees to continue? If I recall correctly, there was at least one deferral in the course of 2006. Are we now to face yet another deferral of the reduced level of fee payment?

The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is party to the establishment of the core team. However, the Department of the Taoiseach is not represented on that team. I understand that officials from the Departments of Finance and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government are participating. Why is the Department of the Taoiseach not represented? When is it expected the core team will substantively report on its review of the fees that apply in the case of the Mahon tribunal? Is it addressing fees in general that apply to other tribunals, particularly those that are currently sitting, not just those that may be established in the future?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a separate tribunal and it is not covered. I can, however, inform the Deputy that those matters remain under discussion. While my Department was not represented at official level, there was representation from the Office of the Attorney General, which comes under the aegis of my Department.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The questions I asked relate to the Mahon tribunal.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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However, the parliamentary questions with which we are dealing relate to the Moriarty tribunal.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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My questions relate to the Mahon tribunal.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not answering questions on the Mahon tribunal because it does not come within my Department's remit. In the interests of being helpful, however, the matter to which the Deputy refers is still the subject of discussion. The three officials dealing with it are from the Departments of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Finance and the Office of the Attorney General, which comes under the aegis of my Department.

The Comptroller and Auditor General is examining matters relating to costs and fees, and his report will be made available during the course of the year.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has not given an indication as to whether the 31 March deadline relating to reduced fees——

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I stated that those matters are ongoing.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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How many deferrals of the decision the Taoiseach trumpeted two years ago have been accommodated?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There has not been a deferral.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There was previously a deferral. The Taoiseach has allowed an overrun in respect of the highest level of fees.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not providing answers in respect of the Mahon tribunal, however, there has been no deferral. The original date given in respect of the Mahon tribunal was 31 March 2007.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Is it not interesting that the Progressive Democrats were not present the first time around and that they are absent again today? At least we have this opportunity to table questions in respect of costs and the actions that may arise on foot of the tribunal's report. Is the Taoiseach aware of the nature of such actions being requested by the Irish branch of Transparency International as a result of the publication of the Moriarty tribunal's report? It called for additional powers for the Standards in Public Office Commission and for full disclosure of financial accounts by political parties, not just for the three weeks leading up to an election but for the period between one election day and the next. If we are to obtain value for money, does the Taoiseach acknowledge that the actions which arise on foot of the report must be taken? Will he indicate the stage the Government has reached in the implementation of such actions?

Is it possible for the Taoiseach to indicate — this would also impact on the actions to which I refer and it may have allowed us to avoid spending over €27 million on the report in the first instance — what would have been the position if he had refused to sign blank cheques?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter does not arise. A distinction must be drawn between Deputy Bertie Ahern as Taoiseach and in his role as leader of the Fianna Fáil Party.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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There is only one Deputy Bertie Ahern——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach is not responsible to the Dáil for party activities, past or present.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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——and we all know that.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The distinction is the same as that between Superman and Clark Kent.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have already outlined the contents of Standing Order 33.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Even the Taoiseach realises that he is the same person.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Members should confine themselves to asking questions on the costs relating to the tribunal or the findings of the report in respect of which Government action is required.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I only see the one person across the floor here and I am asking that person about his actions.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, but I ask you to obey the Chair.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I had a number of questions and the Chair did not rule them all out of order.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sure the Deputy had and the Chair has pointed out clearly that it must implement the Standing Orders. The Deputy is aware of that. Members must obey the Standing Orders.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I am looking forward to the replies to the questions that were in order according to the Ceann Comhairle's ruling.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I read out Standing Order 33. I do not want to read it out again but, if necessary, I will have to.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Any of the recommendations of the Moriarty tribunal applies in every Department. I do not think there is a recommendation that all political parties are to account in any further way for their expenditures between the elections. They are already audited accounts, and the leaders' accounts now——

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The period leading into an election is what we are speaking of.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——are dealt with in an entirely different way from previously and the statement goes to the Standards in Public Office Commission. I do not recall seeing a proposal such as that to which the Deputy refers that all of these controls for political parties, which are in place during the course of an election, should be in place all year round, and I do not think that is a recommendation. I am sure any of the recommendations of the Moriarty tribunal, and any reflections it requires for amended legislation in the future, will be fully taken into account.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Is the Taoiseach aware of Transparency International?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Kenny.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Apparently not.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I had asked the Taoiseach on the procedure to be followed by persons who might wish to acquire papers from the tribunal that were used in the course of drawing up the report. Is there a procedure for that or are persons who may have an interest entitled to acquire those?

Second, in respect of the question on the Taoiseach's views on the Moriarty tribunal, one of the most uncomfortable features of the Moriarty tribunal was the uncovering of the use of funds for the late Brian Lenihan's medical operations for personal use. It has been alleged that there was a constant stream of assistance or donations coming in for that.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy a question appropriate to these questions?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes. I am going to ask it now. Arising from that, does the Taoiseach, in his capacity as leader of his party——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, the Taoiseach is not here to take questions on that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——and as Taoiseach, have a view as to whether what the tribunal uncovered was all that was involved?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, that does not arise on this question. The first question is appropriate.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My question is clear; I am seeking the Taoiseach's views on the first report of the Moriarty tribunal. This is about the Moriarty tribunal and this is something that has been alleged on a number of occasions. I do not know the answer to it. I am just asking that the Taoiseach——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair has already pointed out that we cannot discuss the tribunal. The Taoiseach is not here in his capacity as leader of his party to answer questions. Standing Order 33 refers.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not asking him to discuss the tribunal; I am asking him to discuss his views on it. I am asking the Taoiseach whether he has a view on what I consider was one of the most uncomfortable issues——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise from this question. I call the Taoiseach on the first question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Can I ask the Taoiseach then, a Cheann Comhairle, whether he is happy having read the report that the matter relevant to the amounts concerned for the late Mr. Lenihan——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, that does not arise.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——were the amounts in total? I think that is a relevant question in respect of views on the tribunal.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy. You may well think that but Standing Order 33 binds the Chair.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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A Cheann Comhairle, you allowed this question——

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question No. 10.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——to ask the Taoiseach his views on the first report of the Moriarty tribunal. I am asking the Taoiseach for his view on it. Can you give me a reason for ruling that out?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes. The Chair has given the Deputy a reason.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What is the reason?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Standing Order 33.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What does that state?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Standing Order 33 states:

Questions addressed to a member of the Government must relate to public affairs connected with his or her Department, or to matters of administration for which he or she is officially responsible.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is relevant to his Department.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This raises the question of costs.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is relevant to the Taoiseach's Department. He is the Taoiseach. The question is about his views on the Moriarty tribunal. I am asking the Taoiseach for his view on that.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If you want a view on that, a Cheann Comhairle, all records of the party were given comprehensively to the tribunal in its investigations and, therefore, anything on which the tribunal would have reported would have been on all the records the party would have had. On the first question, any submission on data or reports that the tribunal may have had or used would have been made to the sole member. That is the only procedure. I do not know of any other.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is the Ceann Comhairle ruling that it is not possible to put down a question to the Taoiseach about the content of the Moriarty report?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is possible to put down questions to any Minister——

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I am not speaking about any Minister.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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——about anything for which he or she has official responsibility, and that includes the Taoiseach. However, it is not possible to put down a question to any Minister about something for which he or she does not have official responsibility in this House.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I am not interested in Deputy Kenny's matter.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am merely outlining to the Deputy the Standing Order.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I am asking whether it is possible for me to put down a question to the Taoiseach on the content of the Moriarty report.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, I have given the Deputy the ruling, which is that any question is in order provided it is a matter for which the Minister has official responsibility in his or her Department. If he or she acts in another capacity, such as leader of the party, he or she is not responsible to this House. That is the Standing Order and the Chair is obliged to implement it, as my predecessors have done for the past 80 years.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I ask the Taoiseach, having regard to the cost of this tribunal report, whether his Government has taken any action in respect of it.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The full recommendations of the tribunal and a full report have been sent to every Department. I do not think many actions are necessary because most have already been acted upon, particularly those pertaining to public moneys and how they are to be audited and moved to the Standards in Public Office Commission. Most of these things are already in place but any other recommendation that has not been dealt with will be addressed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I appreciate that it has been distributed, but I do not know to whom and maybe the Taoiseach will reveal that.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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To every Department.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I am asking the Taoiseach whether any initiative, action or legislative measure has been taken or derives from the report.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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What I have stated is that during the nine and a half years of work on the Moriarty report, many issues came to light that required legislative change and they have already been legislated for during the course of the tribunal. It is probably true to say that a lot directly related to its work. I am not aware of any further legislative issue but changes were made over the years to Finance Bills, the Standards in Public Office Act 2001 was enacted and amendments were made to the Electoral Acts and the Ethics in Public Office Act 1995 during the course of the tribunal's work. If there is any other one on which action was not taken, I am sure it will be addressed by various Ministers when they and their officials examine the full report.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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With regard to costs, is it not the case that the Taoiseach approved and the Attorney General recommended a doubling of fees for solicitors and researchers and that after 2002 the Taoiseach approved an increase of €800 per diem for lawyers at tribunals, including the one under discussion? Does he not agree it is the height of humbug that he and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform are cooking up a storm and a controversy about the fees associated with these tribunals when he as Taoiseach approved them and the Minister, Deputy McDowell, who is leading the storm, facilitated some of the increases while he was Attorney General?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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At the outset of the tribunals, certain costs were set. I think they were changed a few times during the course of the work of the tribunals. They were set on the basis the tribunals would be finished within certain timeframes but for one reason or another a number of tribunals made submissions regarding extensions of time. When the tribunals were set up in 1997, it was considered they would take two years to complete. It is clear from the record that this was the view of everybody on this side of the House. The legislation was amended on the basis we would know when the final modules would be finished and by what date. The Moriarty tribunal was expected to end in 2002. Increases were given. In 2004 the then Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy, and the Attorney General agreed the timescale within which the tribunal would be completed. However, a number of the tribunals, including the Moriarty tribunal, made submissions that some delays were beyond their control and that they needed further time. The Moriarty tribunal has completed its first report and stated a small number of hearings may be held on its second report. It expects to start work on the second report within a few weeks and wrap up all matters relating to the tribunal, except that of third party costs, which will be a matter for the sole member. The tribunal as we know it should wrap up during 2007.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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In respect of costs, do the negotiations under way encompass all tribunals, their legal staff and legal fees or do they relate only to a single tribunal?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The work of the Moriarty tribunal is almost complete within the existing arrangement — that it will be finished this year. The work of the other tribunals is on schedule or there are agreed dates. The new fee structure has been put in place by a number of them but I cannot recall which ones off the top of my head. Negotiations are continuing on an agreement with the sole member and the legal teams on the timespan and fees for the Mahon tribunal.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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How many junior and senior counsel are working in the Moriarty tribunal which has sat for the minimum number of days this year? Has the tribunal provided the Taoiseach with its work programme and outlined the number of days it will sit in public or private session, as we approach the end of the year and the production of the second report? In other words, what is the scale of the tribunal team? Does the tribunal set out a work programme in order that the Taoiseach can at least monitor its activity both in public and private session in order that the report will be published by the end of the year?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Under the system used, the fees for counsel are initially certified by the solicitor to the tribunal and then certified by the honourable Mr. Justice Moriarty. The certified counsel fee invoices are then forwarded to the protocol and general division of my Department for authorisation in accordance with Department of Finance sanction. They are, in turn, forwarded to the finance unit of my Department for payment. Office expenses and supplies are invoiced directly to the tribunal. The tribunal registrar certifies the invoices and passes them to the finance unit of the Department of Finance for payment. The main team of the Moriarty tribunal comprises eight people, including three or four senior counsel, while the others are clerical staff.