Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the number of staff in his Department who have applied for relocation under the Government's decentralisation programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43903/06]

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of the decentralisation programme as it affects his Department. [1609/07]

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of decentralisation in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6330/07]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the Civil Service relocation programme as it affects his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6766/07]

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the progress made in regard to decentralisation in so far as it affects his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8369/07]

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together.

A total of 39 staff currently serving in my Department have applied through the central applications facility to relocate under the decentralisation programme. The breakdown by grade is: assistant principal, seven; higher executive officer, three; administrative officer, seven; executive officer, nine; staff officer, two; and clerical officer, 11. Ten former members of staff have already been assigned to decentralised posts.

Arrangements are in place to ensure the decentralisation of staff does not have a negative impact on the quality of the services provided by the Department. These arrangements include the phased redeployment of some of the remaining staff to the areas of the Department most affected by decentralisation, as well as the provision of training and job profiles and work manuals to new staff as appropriate.

The fact that 18% of the staff of my Department have opted to relocate outside of Dublin shows that the underlying decision to initiate a comprehensive decentralisation programme was correct.

Deputies will be aware there are no proposals to decentralise my Department or any of the bodies under its aegis.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What was the reason for the Government taking up 16.5% of all vacant office space in Dublin last year, which came to 38,000 sq. m.? This was 40% higher than the State's take-up in 2003. As I am hoarse, I am obliged to keep my questions short. Will any element of the Taoiseach's Department take up office space rented or taken out by Government in Dublin this year?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No and I do not think any of the organisations connected to my Department are that big either. I do not think any of them will do so and certainly not the Department. There is always a fair bit of moving around in terms of Departments. It is really an OPW question — I will try to be helpful — and it is forever changing its leases on developments it has and trying to get out of finishing some contracts and going for longer-term leases. I very much doubt it will increase its overall space. Where leases are getting short or coming up to review, it tries to get better arrangements. It tries to manage its own portfolio and it is forever doing that on an annual basis. My Department is not taking up additional accommodation.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach stated 18% of his staff applied for relocation. He put a figure of 39 staff on it and stated that ten former members of staff were already assigned to decentralised posts. Does this have any meaning? Have any of them been decentralised or have they even moved outside of the Taoiseach's office? Is it just that they are applicants who may be called on if the opportunities or vacancies arise?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In my Department, ten staff have already moved to posts. As Deputy Rabbitte is aware, through the managed system staff are moving to posts and areas. People who want to be decentralised across a range of areas are moving to offices that will be decentralised. This year about 1,000 people overall will be in posts and the figure will be several thousand in the next three years. From 2007 to 2009 the figure will reach 6,000.

There is a huge movement within the Department in a managed way which is now worked out with the unions. In fairness to the public service unions a good system was worked out. It will take a bit of time to move through the system but it is a good and organised system which allows people to move.

Ten staff members have gone and given the way it operates I would see most of these people moving on probably over the next two years. To date, decentralisation organisations have moved to 12 new locations. By the end of September this year I am told 2,300 staff will be assigned to decentralised posts. Within 18 months, there will be 29 locations across the country. Over the three year period we will see a very large number of people moving. The schedule is for the planned movement of 6,800 staff over the three-year period. It is a very large movement of people. Admittedly it is not what it was meant to be at the start but by the end of 2009 a total of 6,800 will have gone.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I do not wish to be picky on this. However, the Taoiseach stated ten people moved to decentralised posts. Does this mean they moved outside of Dublin city? Regarding general progress, as I understand the actual figures to date, approximately 6% of the McCreevy target has been decentralised and what the Taoiseach discussed was targets he hopes to achieve in the future.

Former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, famously stated----

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This question refers specifically to the Taoiseach's Department.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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However, the Taoiseach widened it and I was responding to his widening of the subject matter. All I was doing was recalling that former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, stated if it had not been implemented by the election the Government would pay a heavy price.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy has a question we will hear it.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle and I accept that. Will the Taoiseach state what reality attaches to the new targets and expectation he has now given us? Will he be more specific and state how many will move and when and on the particular point of his Department whether those people are in posts outside of the capital city?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know whether they have moved once they have left the Department. Regarding the figures for this summer, it is anticipated the number of decentralised staff moved to the new locations will be more than 1,000 in 20 towns. The plan in place, which I think is working through the system, will be 6,800 by the end of 2009. I think they have worked out a very good plan with the accommodation in place and the contracts done. We are talking about almost 7,000 staff gone in a three year period. This year, that figure will be 1,000.

Martin Ferris (Kerry North, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Taoiseach accept that even if the 10,000 target for decentralisation is reached it would be only a drop in the ocean compared to the continual growth in Dublin? Does he agree that economic development is concentrated far too much to the east and other regions lose out, particularly the south west? Will he consider establishing a unit in his Department to see how economic growth can be better managed and planned in the future?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The eastern region will continue to grow according to every report and survey. It is no longer Dublin, it is the greater Dublin area, and the definitions of the greater Dublin area get greater every year and it gets wider. To answer Deputy Ferris's question, the Government and I are totally supportive of balanced regional development. I think it is good for Dublin, the Dublin region and the country. As time goes on it is the only way to cater for a population of 5 million.

We are now told that within 13 years, which is a very short time, we will have in excess of 5 million people. The only way is to use the spatial strategy and the hubs to try to develop not only public sector but private sector jobs. That is what the Government has been supporting and pressing for a long time. Whether by Enterprise Ireland, the IDA or others most of the effort is made to try to move as much of the investment as we can. The public service has to give an example. It is not enormous out of a workforce of approximately 2.2 million. Within a year we will have 2.2 million people working. It is not only the 7,000, it is the large part of the public service. I do not think the public service will be the problem in the years ahead.

Through health and education the public service will continue to give employment around the country. The problem will be to try and get more private sector companies to move. A large amount of private sector companies, whether they are indigenous or multinationals, want to be around universities and airports. They have their priorities and it is not easy to get them to move either to the south west as Deputy Ferris mentioned or other areas. Policy has to be to try to get them to do so, otherwise the greater Dublin area will snarl even more. That is why I am in favour of this. There has been a very active programme on every investment for several years. The incentives are there to get them to move away from the greater Dublin area. It is in everybody's interest that they do so.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach will agree the initial proposals on decentralisation by former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, took everyone by surprise and seemed to be written on the back of an envelope. Does the Taoiseach at this stage have specific proposals on how decentralisation will function? For example, will he spell out how often decentralised staff in his Department will have to commute to Dublin for specific meetings? Is technology for the most modern web-conferencing facilities in place in the Taoiseach's Department, as I see a role for such technology?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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A huge range of organisations has moved out and by and large the functions have been worked out with regard to where people are going and where the offices are, along with their modus operandi. Civil Service unions and management staff have worked that out.

In most of the sections there is not that much traffic back to the city. For the future, even for those coming back, web-conferencing is the way to go. I entirely agree with the Deputy. We use such conferencing in my own Department for meetings between ourselves and the British Government. Otherwise my staff would constantly be going backward and forward. Most of our ongoing meetings with the British officials, except perhaps a monthly one, are being done through web-conferencing.

I will not state it is the best technology. Being honest, it is far from the best technology I have seen. I have seen the best technology in this regard in different corporations here and it is quite unbelievable. I will not mention company names but some of the best web-conferencing facilities in the world can be seen in this country, where one can literally feel he or she is in the room with people on the other side.

Our technology is poor in comparison but it does the job. On investment for the future, there is no reason Secretaries General or departmental heads cannot sit down and do their business with such technology. I am told that within five years the cost of very good conferencing facilities will be very affordable and will not be a great burden on companies. What we use currently is not brilliant but it certainly fulfils the obligation. Looking out over the next five years there is no reason a departmental head would not be able to link in to several agencies or Departments from a Dublin base, where the head would probably be, on a Monday morning. We are already at that stage and we just have to perfect it. It is the way of the future.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Web-conferencing is great but if we had broadband around the country it might make it much easier.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is 85% penetration.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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We will leave that debate for another day.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will leave it for another member of Government.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I wish to ask about the number of staff in the Taoiseach's Department who have decentralised or moved compared to the number of staff who have transferred from the Department to other Departments in Dublin. Currently, some staff being decentralised are moving from one room to another and are being designated as decentralised staff because they have been redeployed within the same building.

What is the level of real decentralisation from Dublin to the regions? Will the Taoiseach provide an example from his own Department of how many people have transferred to other Departments in Dublin compared to those who have actually decentralised?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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My Department is relatively small. Some 18%, nearly a fifth, of the Department want to go up to this year. Of 39, 29 are still in my Department. They have requested to be decentralised and ten of them have gone via other Departments or agencies. The overall figure this year is 1,000.

With regard to the planned structure there is now an agreement and these issues have been worked out by the OPW and the decentralisation committee. By 2009 the number will be 6,800. It is a three-year programme; in 2007 it will be 1,000, in 2008 it will be approximately 3,500 and by the end of 2009 the number will reach 6,800. There is confidence this can be done. The process will take in 29 locations, where Departments already have offices or offices are being built.