Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Question 81: To ask the Minister for Defence the outcome of his discussions with the Lebanese authorities regarding the denaturalisation, deportation and prosecution of the chief suspect in the murder of Privates Thomas Barrett and Derek Smallhorne in 1980 in Lebanon; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8768/07]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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I visited Lebanon during the period 27 February to 1 March. During the visit I met the Lebanese Minister for Defence, Elias Murr. Among the issues we discussed was the killing of Privates Thomas Barrett and Derek Smallhorne while serving with the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, UNIFIL, in 1980 and the efforts to bring the alleged perpetrator of this crime to justice. The measures open to the Irish authorities to bring the alleged perpetrator of this crime to justice were examined in detail in the Department of Defence in conjunction with the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Attorney General's office and the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The Attorney General advised that no provisions in Irish law provided a basis for Ireland to pursue a prosecution against the alleged perpetrator. The Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions also examined all the available evidence in the case and concluded that it could not pursue a prosecution against the alleged perpetrator.

The country with primary jurisdiction in this case is Lebanon. The Department of Defence and the Department of Foreign Affairs are also in contact with the authorities in the United States where the alleged perpetrator resides as a naturalised US citizen. The United States is investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths of Privates Barrett and Smallhorne to see whether there is sufficient evidence which may enable it to take a case against the alleged perpetrator. If the US authorities can mount a case in the United States for the denaturalisation of the alleged perpetrator, the person in question could be returned to Lebanon, in which case we would seek to have the Lebanese authorities bring the alleged perpetrator to justice. During my meeting last week with the Lebanese Minister for Defence I sought the assistance of the Lebanese authorities in pursuing the case. Mr. Murr assured me the Lebanese authorities would assist in every possible way should the alleged perpetrator be denaturalised and deported from the United States to Lebanon.

We continue with our very best efforts in this case. It has been more than 25 years since this tragic event happened and the families deserve justice. They are not forgotten. I am assiduously pursuing every avenue possible.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for raising the issue during his recent visit to Lebanon. As the House is aware, the manner in which Privates Barrett and Smallhorne were ambushed, kidnapped and killed in cold blood amounted to one of the most barbaric acts ever to have taken place involving Irish peacekeeping troops while serving abroad. In 2000 a campaign was initiated by PDFORRA to try to have the gentleman concerned denaturalised, extradited and prosecuted. The Minister raised the matter in 2005 and again this year. What talks did he specifically have on this matter with the Lebanese authorities and what was their response? Are they in favour of extradition and a prosecution taking place?

What has been the response of the US authorities? The Minister suggested they would raise the matter at the United Nations. Have they agreed to do so? Are they prepared to denaturalise a US citizen and have him extradited? Did they give any indication that they were prepared to do so?

I understand the Attorney General's advice was that the person concerned could be prosecuted under the Geneva Conventions. The individual concerned was a member of the South Lebanese Army at the time and responsible for a crime against humanity and an international war crime.

What talks has the Minister had with the United Nations on this matter? To what extent has the matter been progressed since the question of extradition was initially raised? What steps have been taken since the person concerned was identified in the United States and the matter was raised publicly by PDFORRA? Where are we at this time?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the attitude of the Lebanese authorities, I raised the matter with the relevant Minister in Lebanon, namely, the Minister for Defence who is also the Deputy Prime Minister. I put it to him that there was a possibility that the individual concerned may be denaturalised by the US authorities which must go to court to do so. If he were denaturalised, he would no longer retain his US citizenship and be deported. We presume he would be deported to Lebanon, of which he was originally a citizen. I asked the Minister for Defence if in those circumstances the Lebanese authorities would be prepared to prosecute him in respect of the incident involving Privates Barrett and Smallhorne but he could not provide a categoric assurance, as it would be a matter for the prosecuting authorities in Lebanon to decide. However, he assured me he would be personally interested in seeing justice done in this case and that either he or his successor would liaise with the Government and be open to any suggestions we would make. The Lebanese Government is being very co-operative.

With regard to the United States, my understanding is that the type of case that can be taken by the authorities with such a scenario would be to denaturalise the individual in question. I am not absolutely sure about the grounds for denaturalisation, but from conversations we have had with the American authorities, I believe they will proceed on the grounds that the person was not exactly truthful in his initial application. The FBI is pursuing the matter currently. We have been in touch with the American authorities on a number of occasions about this and I understand the ongoing process may take some time.

Although I recognise the right of everybody to raise the issue and it is clearly a matter of concern to the families and myself, the United States authorities have more or less indicated to us that the less publicly said about it, the better. A gentleman who is free to come and go is residing in a certain part of the United States, which is a free country. If he gets wind that there is too much further down the line, he may take flight and disappear.

Proceedings are ongoing by the United States authorities, specifically the FBI, with a view to taking proceedings to denaturalise this individual. If this is successful, other processes will follow. In anticipation of this I spoke to the Lebanese authorities, which I have found to be most co-operative.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It is 27 years since the killings took place in the 1980s and that gentleman has really been living in the most peaceful circumstances since. The case has been raised on a number of occasions in the past seven years and he certainly has not taken flight. The main requirement would be for us to make every effort at this time because time is of the essence. The 27-year period has been very long for the bereaved families in Cork and Dublin.

Could we get some commitment that our ambassadors to the United States, the United Nations and Lebanon would continuously push the issue and keep it in the limelight? It may be another couple of years before the matter is raised again. As I stated previously, time is of the essence.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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I recognise that 27 years is a very long time but we should bear some issues in mind. This gentleman has not been openly identified for the past 27 years, as the identification was more recent. We have researched every aspect of our law and held the most extensive discussions to see if we could do anything as a country to seek his extradition and put him on trial here. We have been advised again and again by the Attorney General, and afterwards by the DPP, that there is no provision for us to do so. We are basically relying on the US Government, a third party, whose police authorities have told me they are doing everything possible to mount a case for denaturalisation.

If Deputy Costello feels it would be helpful, I will certainly have a word with the ambassador to ask him to again speak to his American counterpart in an effort to expedite the process. As I understand, it is a slow process and although I am assured the Americans are doing everything possible, I will ask the ambassador to speak to the US counterpart if the Deputy so wishes.