Dáil debates
Thursday, 22 February 2007
Priority Questions
Garda Training.
5:00 pm
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if it is possible for members of the Garda Síochána to use PSNI indoor firing ranges for training purposes; his proposals to provide current, dedicated, indoor firearms training facilities for members of the Garda Síochána who hold firearms certificates; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6802/07]
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Garda Síochána has a range of facilities available to it for firearms training and plans are well under way for the provision of dedicated and improved facilities for the force. Currently the Garda makes use of military ranges; the Garda specialist training units have access to 12 of these ranges countrywide. In addition, the Garda Síochána last year procured three virtual firearms automated training systems for marksmanship training. I spoke to a number of detectives recently who rated these virtual ranges very highly. They regard them as being of superior quality. These facilities are now in use in Limerick, Mullingar and at the Garda indoor firing range in the Phoenix Park, Dublin. I understand from the Garda authorities that the facilities represent a major improvement and contribution to the training capacity of the force.
The Garda Síochána has detailed plans to provide an enhanced range of firearms and tactical training facilities, including dedicated indoor firearms training facilities, for the force. The existing indoor firearms range at Garda headquarters in Dublin is to be replaced by a new underground facility. It is planned that this will be undertaken as part of the provision of new forensic science laboratory facilities, which project is under way. Firearms training capabilities, in addition to a broad range of other tactical training facilities, are to be developed at recently purchased lands near the Garda Training College at Templemore. The new centre which extends over 250 acres will, in conjunction with offering indoor and outdoor firearms training, provide for a full range of outdoor tactical training initiatives. These will cover public order, detective school training, the mountain bike, equestrian, dog and water units, surveillance training, etc. The centre will also be used for driver training for various vehicle types, including off-road training, and a broad range of other requirements. The Office of Public Works is examining proposals to use facilities provided by the private sector to serve firearms training needs for the Dublin metropolitan region and eastern seaboard area.
On the Deputy's question on the use of PSNI indoor firing ranges, the Garda authorities inform me that, due to regulations relating to the carrying of firearms and ammunition to other jurisdictions and the logistics of having a high number of personnel travelling to Northern Ireland, it is not practical for the Garda Síochána to use PSNI facilities for training purposes. However, the current investment plans for enhanced firearms facilities will be fully sufficient to meet the operational requirements of the force within this jurisdiction.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will be aware of my continuing concern over the fact that we expect approximately 3,000 members of the Garda Síochána to bear arms on our behalf and perhaps use them occasionally without their having any dedicated indoor firing facilities in which to train. Is he really suggesting the issue can be dealt with by having virtual firearms automated training systems, FATS? Are these like computer games or Quasar, at which children play, or Wii software? Is this what the Minister is offering members of the force to receive training in the use of lethal weapons? Does he not accept that training with actual firearms is required and that it is not being provided?
I have pressed this issue on many occasions and know there will be long delays in replacing the facilities in the Phoenix Park and commissioning new ones at the Garda Training College. Are there regulatory or logistical problems associated with the use of the PSNI ranges? Could we change the regulations and put in place a system, whereby members of the Garda could receive training in dedicated indoor firing ranges, as opposed to training with what seem to be advanced computer games? These may be helpful but certainly do not compensate in any way for the lack of training with real guns.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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A number of gardaí have given me a first-hand account of the simulated ranges and they all spoke very highly of them.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I am sure they enjoy it.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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It is not child's play or a computer game. The gardaí say the training is far more effective than pointing one's rifle——
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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We are talking about hand guns.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——or pistol at static targets. The Deputy should acquaint himself with these facilities.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I have had first-hand accounts from a number of gardaí.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I have not but I do not have to see every facility myself. The Deputy is obviously a doubting Thomas.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I am very much so where the Minister is concerned.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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When gardaí tell me they are very happy with this new facility and when those I know and trust tell me how good it is, I am inclined to believe them. I do not deride them, belittle them or accuse them of playing computer games. The facility is nothing of the kind.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I am not belittling them.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Sending gardaí to the North for firearms training would not be practicable. It is not reasonable to send them on day trips to Belfast for this purpose. There are outdoor ranges in this jurisdiction. The indoor range constructed at the Phoenix Park, with which the Deputy's party was involved when in government, turned out to be dangerous.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister should get over that, as he is ten years in office.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister told me that years ago. It was bound to have ricocheted two years ago.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Although it is a comparatively modern facility, I am now in a position to build a dedicated indoor range in the park.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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They are not grand plans. I just have to do things, while the Deputy just makes a mess of them; that is the problem.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is drawing big plans.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If I were the Deputy, I would stick to broadcasting.