Dáil debates

Wednesday, 22 November 2006

Ceisteanna — Questions

Northern Ireland Issues.

11:00 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern Ireland peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32244/06]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the outcome of the negotiations with the Northern political parties in Scotland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32245/06]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32246/06]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet with the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32247/06]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting with representatives of the SDLP in Dublin on 9 October 2006. [32538/06]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting with representatives of Sinn Féin in Dublin on 9 October 2006. [32539/06]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of the discussions held in Scotland between the Irish and British Governments and the political parties of Northern Ireland. [32540/06]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Sinn Féin in Dublin on 9 October 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32907/06]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his participation in the talks at St. Andrews in Scotland and subsequent negotiations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34469/06]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the parties in Northern Ireland. [35931/06]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the talks in St. Andrews in Scotland regarding Northern Ireland. [35932/06]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach when he next plans to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair. [35933/06]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 16: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Sinn Féin on 2 November 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37075/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 17: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in respect of Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37078/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 18: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on recent contacts with the British Government regarding Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37079/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 19: To ask the Taoiseach when he will next meet the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37080/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 20: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the St. Andrews talks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37081/06]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 21: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his latest contacts with the British Government and the parties in Northern Ireland regarding the implementation of the St. Andrews Agreement; if he expects the election of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to proceed as planned on 24 November 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [38681/06]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 21, inclusive, together.

Prime Minister Blair and I hosted three days of intensive multi-party talks with the Northern Ireland political parties from 11 to 13 October at St. Andrews in Scotland. The focus of the talks was on achieving full and effective operation of the political institutions of Northern Ireland.

The St. Andrews Agreement, which the two Governments published on 13 October, addresses the essential issues necessary for a stable and peaceful settlement in Northern Ireland. It underpins the Good Friday Agreement and is built on the twin pillars of power-sharing and support for policing and the rule of law. It sets out a clear roadmap to restoration. In particular, it also includes practical changes to the operation of the political institutions, which were originally the subject of the review process undertaken in 2004. A number of other issues relating to human rights, equality and victims are also addressed in the agreement.

Following the talks and at the request of the Governments, the parties engaged in extensive consultations regarding the agreement. On 10 November, the Governments announced that they were satisfied on the basis of their contacts with and responses from the parties that the St. Andrews Agreement, implemented in good faith, represented the basis for a political settlement.

Last week, the British Government published legislation that will give effect to the agreement. It makes the necessary legal provisions to allow devolved government to be restored in Northern Ireland on the basis of the timetable set out at St. Andrews. It also provides for assembly elections in March.

The leading parties are expected to indicate their intentions regarding nominations for the posts of First Minister and Deputy First Minister this Friday, 24 November, following which a transitional assembly will come into effect. The full slate of Ministers will be nominated in March in light of the outcome of the election and the executive will be restored on 26 March. There will also be an IMC report in January.

In the interim, the new programme for Government committee will discuss all of the necessary arrangements relating to ministerial responsibilities, ensuring that the executive can operate with immediate effect from next March. It had been intended that this committee would meet in the week following the talks at St. Andrews, but, as the House is aware, this did not happen. However, I welcome the fact that the inaugural meeting of the committee finally took place this week. It is essential that the parties engage in the committee's work fully to ensure that all issues relevant to the formation of the executive in March are addressed and resolved in good time.

The Governments are examining the bilateral measures they will need to take to give effect to the relevant St. Andrews amendments. The Attorney General will advise the Government on any other implications that may arise in light of the final text of the legislation when passed at Westminster. The Governments are determined to maintain momentum in the process. The St. Andrews Agreement offers the basis on which we can bring this process to successful finality.

There is an overwhelming wish in Northern Ireland to see devolution restored. This was particularly evident when the political parties engaged collectively, as a follow-up to St. Andrews, with Chancellor Gordon Brown prior to his announcement of a financial package for Northern Ireland. The announcement of the package is a clear demonstration of what can be achieved for the people of Northern Ireland when the parties work together.

I had meetings with representatives of both Sinn Féin and the SDLP in advance of the multi-party talks in Scotland. I had further meetings with Sinn Féin on 2 November and the SDLP on 9 November. At those meetings, we discussed a range of issues of concern to both parties. I have maintained contact with Prime Minister Blair since St. Andrews and we both remain absolutely determined to ensure that the vision of the Good Friday Agreement will be fully realised. I expect to meet with him on 4 December in London.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Brown, has promised £50 billion over the next ten years, assuming the parties agree to restore the Assembly, which everybody would support. When will the Irish Government make known its commitment to financial backing in that regard? Has the Government considered what major infrastructure projects would be involved, such as development of the Letterkenny-Derry gateway or the Shannon-Erne waterway? What is the figure, when will it be announced and what projects does the Taoiseach envisage the funding will cover?

Has there been any progress in the discussions on adjustments to taxation North and South? I refer specifically to the corporation tax rate of 12.5%, piloted through the Cabinet of the rainbow Government by Deputy Rabbitte and Deputy Bruton. Parity of taxation was discussed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Minister of Finance and it is a matter of interest to business North and South.

Following the decision yesterday to freeze property in Manchester worth over £2 million belonging to the brother of Thomas Slab Murphy, can the Taoiseach provide an update on the attempts, ongoing for some time, to recover the proceeds of the Northern Bank raid?

In response to a parliamentary question I tabled last week the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said gardaí had conducted inquiries in Colombia into the activities of the Colombia three. What was the nature of those inquiries? Has the Department been in touch with the Colombian authorities on the subject of their becoming a signatory to the Council of Europe convention which allows for imprisonment of persons in this country instead of extradition? Has the Taoiseach received any response from the Colombian authorities to direct questions put to them by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Chancellor of the Exchequer has put forward a package for infrastructure. A large portion corresponds to the ongoing costs of Northern Ireland to the British Exchequer but there is an additional sum. The package consists of £35 billion for the Executive for the next four years and £18 billion in support of a capital investment strategy until 2017. I have urged the Northern Ireland political parties to revive power-sharing so the people of Northern Ireland can benefit from the increased investment.

The parties intend to hold further discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the first meeting of the programme for government committee on this and on other demands they have. We have already helped with a number of projects, including the Ulster Canal, the development of Derry Airport and improvements in the Belfast road, much of the work on which was undertaken by our engineers. We are examining ways of contributing to the peace process with infrastructural projects in other Border areas. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, has made a number of detailed speeches on those matters and we are open to engagement on such projects. Many projects were put on hold because of difficulties with the Northern Ireland Office, though some progressed. If the North-South bodies were up and running again, some projects which would be well within our funding capability and would be helpful both North and South, without threatening anybody, could be progressed.

A number of investigations are ongoing, including the ones to which the Deputy referred. I have not received any new report on the Northern Bank raid but the file is still live with the Garda Síochána and the PSNI.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs held discussions earlier this year on the Colombia three. I headed an international meeting in which I had agreed to meet the vice-president of Colombia. He left to deal with another crisis but I spoke to some of his officials and we have maintained communications. I am not aware of the ongoing investigations being carried out by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

What was the Deputy's final question?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I asked a further question about Colombia becoming a signatory to the relevant Council of Europe convention.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No. That was one of the issues——

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I also asked about the investigation carried out by gardaí in Colombia and responses from the Colombian authorities to direct questions put by us.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Foreign Affairs has co-operated throughout with the Colombian authorities. He has held discussions with them but apart from the fact that the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has held recent discussions I have not seen any new correspondence or requests from the Colombian authorities.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is the Taoiseach concerned about the slippage that has taken place since the St. Andrews Agreement? The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said in the House of Commons last night that there would no longer be nominations to the positions of First Minister and Deputy First Minister but that the parties would indicate their willingness to take those posts when the Assembly met on Friday. Does the Taoiseach believe there is a major difference between nominating and indicating? What is his position on that?

Was it not the expectation after the St. Andrews Agreement that Sinn Féin would move quickly on policing? That has not happened.

Is the slippage because of DUP pressure? What is the Taoiseach's assessment of the DUP's willingness to share power? Does he believe the central commitment to do so exists?

Is the Taoiseach aware of any side deals having been done? What undertaking has he given on representation in the Houses of the Oireachtas? Is there an explicit commitment on that issue about which we ought to be concerned? Is the Taoiseach concerned the process appears to be in another logjam? The Taoiseach's position has been that the Attorney General cannot advise on a referendum, mooted by the Taoiseach as a possible requirement arising from the St. Andrews Agreement, until the legislation in the House of Commons is enacted. Given the guillotine imposed on the legislation in the House of Commons, meaning it went through in one day, the prospect of its being amended is remote. Is the Taoiseach in a position yet to say whether his Government will hold a referendum arising from the St. Andrews Agreement? If he is not yet in a such a position when, given that the legislation is before the House of Lords and will be completed today, will he be able to tell the House whether it is his intention to hold a referendum in this jurisdiction?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will endeavour to answer all the Deputy's questions. The main slippage has taken place in respect of the programme for government committee. The intention, when we broke up on 13 October in St. Andrews in Scotland, was that the programme for government meeting would be held on the following Tuesday. Regrettably, that did not take place. I was concerned about that; it was unhelpful to the process. I will not enter into the blame game about it but it lost valuable weeks. The programme for government committee met on Monday. I always try to keep this constructive so at least that was a comprehensive and good meeting. It was well attended by senior members on both sides.

The agreement is that the committee will meet weekly in future. I hope that process continues. However, it did create difficulties and we lost valuable time from what was a clear understanding in St. Andrews up to Monday's meeting. Monday's meeting was important and useful. The committee dealt with substantive issues. It pledged it would meet on a weekly basis to deal with policy and preparation issues with the intention that when the Executive is up and running at the end of March the parties would be able to move fully into positions.

It was always intended that on 14 March the parties would put forward the names of the Ministers who would serve in the Executive. They will take up their positions and sign the pledge on 26 March. There have been considerable issues surrounding the pledge of office and the circumstances for taking it. The two central issues are whether the DUP will engage in power sharing and whether Sinn Féin will deal comprehensively with policing. The pledge will deal with both issues when it reaches that stage.

The pledge of office set out in Schedule 4 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 was amended by the Northern Ireland (St Andrews Agreement) Bill in the House of Commons last night by the insertion after paragraph (c) of the following:

"(ca) to promote the interests of the whole community represented in the Northern Ireland Assembly towards the goal of a shared future;

(cb) to participate fully in the Executive Committee, the North-South Ministerial Council and the British-Irish Council;

(cc) to observe the joint nature of the offices of First Minister and deputy First Minister;

(cd) to uphold the rule of law based as it is on the fundamental principles of fairness, impartiality and democratic accountability, including support for policing and the courts as set out in paragraph 6 of the St Andrews Agreement;".

The pledge deals comprehensively with both issues. Obviously, until those issues are addressed the agreement of the parties on how they will handle that on Friday is one I support. We will not get any further on that until a pledge is signed and embraces both issues, that is, power-sharing and support for policing.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Will the pledge be signed on Friday?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No. The pledge will be signed in March but what is in the pledge and the basis of the pledge are now agreed. That was a difficult exercise but it embraces the two issues. While Friday is important, everybody knows there will not be a development in March until these issues are dealt with. That must happen before March. Needless to say, I would like that to happen as soon as possible with regard to the indications from the DUP on its position and the issue of Sinn Féin dealing with policing.

The legislation provides that if at any time before 25 March 2007 the Secretary of State considers there is no reasonable prospect that we are on track for devolution in the time specified, it will be possible to abort the process, including the election. Obviously, I hope that will not be necessary. If it did happen, we would continue to have the option of plan B. Everybody is clear on what is the position.

With regard to side deals, there were no side deals with the Irish Government on any of these issues. We were asked about a number of issues but we stuck with our present position. On the issue of Oireachtas representation, I had to say there was an unwillingness in this House to abide by the report of the all-party group, which was prepared some years ago. However, there was a willingness to deal with a committee of the House, as party leaders had indicated. I will take it forward on that basis, not on the basis of the all-party discussion.

Deputy Rabbitte is correct that it is unlikely there will be many amendments to the legislation but we must wait and see. There were a few attempts last night to get amendments through but they were soundly beaten. If the same happens in the House of Lords today, there should be no requirement for a referendum. However, the Attorney General wants to wait until the final Act is available. The referendum was based around an alternative to avoid an election in the North. I was of the view that we needed neither an election nor a referendum. I still hold that view but there was no convincing one party of it. We will have to wait and see what happens in an election. Deputy Kenny mentioned yesterday my fear about that. I do not believe it is helpful but the parties have reluctantly agreed to go with the position as per the legislation.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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If I am not mistaken, St. Andrew's day falls around this time. Apart from wishing the people of Scotland well in celebrating their patron saint, perhaps a prayer or two would not go amiss in trying to bring a resolution to the intransigence we are currently trying to overcome. In the midst of the delays does the Taoiseach see a prospect of other issues giving some momentum and a context or relevance to the process? I have in mind issues that have been in the news, for example, child abusers. That issue appears to have been caught up in the politics of Northern Ireland, given the delays in introducing cross-Border legislation to prevent the Republic becoming a haven for paedophiles. Does such an issue impact on the stand-off positions that are adopted, be they with regard to policing, power sharing or the other matters that crop up?

In that regard, sectarianism and the sectarian divide, particularly in housing, seem to be getting worse in the North. Does the Taoiseach envisage a role for the non-sectarian parties in the North, given that much of the attention appears to be concentrated on those who have the most sectarian backgrounds? Will that role include parties in this House, including Opposition parties, as well as parties in the North? Could that be seen as an effective catalyst to try to move beyond the sectarian politics which continue to exist, regardless of what agreement is reached?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The memorandum of understanding on information-sharing arrangements between Ireland and the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, relating to sex offenders has been negotiated between the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the UK Home Office. The Tánaiste has received Government approval for its signing. It will be signed next Monday by the Tánaiste and the Home Office Minister at Hillsborough. The memorandum includes most of the outstanding issues. It is not the perfect solution we would like if the North-South bodies were fully operational but it avoids some of the difficulties that have occurred. It is a useful exercise.

With regard to sectarianism, Deputy Sargent is correct that there are still many worrying issues even though a great deal of work has been done by the parties in an effort to make progress across the peace lines and the sectarian divide. There has been unprecedented dialogue and many of the groups which receive funding have been trying to broaden their horizons. That is helpful but the sectarian element was still visible during the summer months, in particular, where people were forced out of housing estates into sectarian areas, and these activities continue.

A number of initiatives have been taken recently regarding the removal of graffiti and emblems of all sides and kinds from estates. Projects have been proposed and resources have been provided by the NIO to some loyalist communities in order to end the attempts at ownership of these estates in the face of Nationalists and vice versa. These have been helpful where they worked. Parties have also made good efforts at building community relations.

Progress is being made on the relatively small number of flashpoints that remain for summer parades. These flashpoints create tension during the months that precede and follow them, so that half the year passes and only the winter period remains for making progress. Some attempts have been made in that regard because they are extremely important in terms of removing sectarianism. The more understanding people on all sides have about them, the better. The only way to deal with the matter is through direct dialogue between the Orange Order and communities. Such dialogue has been conducted successfully in Derry and it would be helpful if it took place in other areas. In Drumcree, both sides need to find a solution to the issue because it remains a problem for Portadown and surrounding areas. On the Lower Ormeau Road, difficulties arise in terms of coming back through the flashpoint of Ardoyne, where at 9 o'clock every 12 July, one can be sure issues will arise. These outstanding issues, which continue to create sectarian tensions, are not many in number but they are extremely important. Apart from the political issue, we could move them on.

In terms of the Oireachtas, if we established an all-party committee and engaged with Northern parties, we could help in a meaningful way. Airing and discussing these issues in this House with representatives from the North would help, as well as give us a chance — if I can express myself diplomatically — to expose people to the reality of some of these issues.

Photo of Martin FerrisMartin Ferris (Kerry North, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Taoiseach confident that the proposals and timeframe set out at St. Andrews will result in participation by the DUP in a new Executive?

Does he accept that the issue of policing is one for all the parties, not only Sinn Féin, and that the DUP and the British Government have to endorse a system of policing which is accountable, under democratic control and leaves behind the sectarianism and repressive legacy of the past?

Does he further agree that the appointment of the Commissioner for Victims in the North by Mr. Peter Hain was an insensitive and disastrous decision? Does he know that the appointee is totally unacceptable to many victims and that the appointment has been challenged in the courts? Is he aware that the High Court in Belfast has referred Mr. Hain's decision to the British Attorney General and that an inquiry has been ordered into the way the matter was addressed? Has he raised this issue with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to the second issue raised by the Deputy, I am aware that the appointment of the interim Commissioner for Victims is being investigated by the British Attorney General. The process was regarded as not being properly followed, issues arose with regard to cross-community support and the matter is under investigation. I have not raised the matter with the Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, because I have not met him since it arose. We are awaiting the outcome of the investigation by the Attorney General, so I do not think it necessary for me to raise the matter. I do not know how quickly the investigation will be completed.

On the issue of policing, my reply to Deputy Rabbitte's question outlined the contents of the pledge and what people must sign up to before we can bring the Executive into being. I hope everybody will sign the pledge. If everybody signs the pledge, everybody is signed up to policing and because nobody is excluded from signing the pledge, nobody is excluded from signing up to policing. Deputy Ferris will be aware of the discussions we have had on the St. Andrews Agreement and that his own party has to deal with the policing issues. I understand that Sinn Féin is following a process, which was explained to me, and I hope that process will be completed sooner rather than later. That is a matter for the organisation of the Deputy's own party affairs, which are not my responsibility. He knows, however, that we cannot establish a working Executive next March unless the pledge is signed and that signing it will require his party to make a decision.

I am aware of the difficulties surrounding MI5 which have been raised by Sinn Féin and other parties. We have been endeavouring to find a resolution to these and, in fairness to the Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, he is personally and directly engaged in trying to resolve the issue. Sinn Féin and the SDLP have raised the issue, Deputy Ferris has expressed his views on it and we have been supportive in seeking a resolution.