Dáil debates
Tuesday, 7 November 2006
Ceisteanna — Questions.
Official Engagements.
2:30 pm
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion last met; and when the next meeting is scheduled. [28244/06]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach the number of meetings scheduled for the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion for the remainder of 2006. [28319/06]
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion last met. [29231/06]
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion last met; and when the next meeting will take place. [30654/06]
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion last met; and when the sub-committee will hold its next meeting.. [30786/06]
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 10, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on social inclusion and children last met on 11 October 2006. The Cabinet committee will have its next meeting on 15 November 2006, with a further meeting scheduled in December. As I have outlined to the House on a number of occasions, Cabinet committees are an integral part of the Cabinet process. Questions as to the business conducted at Cabinet or Cabinet committee meetings have never been allowed in the House on the grounds that they are internal to Government. The reasons for this approach are founded on sound policy principles and the need to avoid infringing the constitutional protection of Cabinet confidentiality.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The most recent CSO figures for the third quarter showed a huge increase in the number of drug offences recorded. Drug dealing offences were up by 25%——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy an appropriate question arising out of these questions, which are purely statistical?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's question asks when the sub-committee last met and when the next meeting will take place.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach told me that it met on 11 October and will next meet on 15 November. What supplementary question does the Ceann Comhairle suggest I ask?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Previously, the Chair suggested that these questions should be submitted for written answer. The Chair is in a difficult position because, while the Deputy might like more meetings, no supplementary questions arise.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle is not responsible for the Taoiseach's answer.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Regarding this serious matter, is the Taoiseach prepared to say whether new measures are likely to be——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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As the Deputy knows, these committees are clearly an integral part of the Cabinet process. They are confidential and what is discussed therein is not appropriate to these questions, which are in accordance with Standing Orders. We cannot have a debate on the issue, but there is nothing to stop the Deputy tabling questions to the line Minister.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Recently in my home village, €15 million in——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is going outside Standing Orders.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I would prefer if the Deputy did not continue to try to circumvent what has been a rule of the Chair in this House for as long as I can remember.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is no such circumvention. One needs an answer.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I will put the question another way. Does the Taoiseach agree that the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion should meet earlier than 15 November having regard to the seizure of drugs——
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——with a value of €15 million in Clondalkin and to the alarming fact that the seizure seems to have had no impact on the availability of heroin and other drugs in this city?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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In the context of the CSO figures on the worsening drug situation, does the Taoiseach consider that there is a compelling case to bring forward the date of the meeting?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will abide by the Ceann Comhairle's ruling in these questions. I will bring the Deputy's question to the attention of the sub-committee. For the information of the House, the details of the sub-committee's operations may be asked of the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Regarding the social inclusion dimension of the matter, have specific proposals relating to money lenders been made by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Those sub-committees are confidential. If the Deputy has a question to ask the line Minister, he should submit it. This matter does not arise out of these questions.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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As my predecessors and I have pointed out numerous times, these questions should be submitted for written answers because they do not allow for debate.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle must accept that if we are to live within the strictures as he interprets them, there is no point in attending the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy does not live within strictures interpreted by me, he lives within the strictures of the questions. Cabinet confidentiality applies to the sub-committees, which is a constitutional requirement and has nothing to do with the Chair. The Chair is not determining the strictures.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle seems to be ruling that the answer to the question is that the Cabinet sub-committee met on 11 October and will next meet on 15 November and no more. We can all go home.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That was the question asked by the Deputy and that is the reason I suggest a written question be tabled. I do not see the sense in having the Chair intervene in oral questions so often every day.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It wastes the Taoiseach's time.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle must accept that he must leave the Opposition with some little prerogative to table whatever question we believe——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair cannot circumvent precedent. It is a requirement of the Chair to ensure that we do not breach Cabinet confidentiality in answering these questions. There are other ways for the Deputy to raise these questions with the line Minister.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That we cannot raise a generic question and hang it on the peg of the question as phrased is absurd and overly restrictive, and makes a nonsense of Taoiseach's questions.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is one point of view. If the Deputy wishes to introduce a Standing Order to change the position, the Chair will be delighted to implement it.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We face the obstacle course again. Is the Taoiseach in a position, under these rules, to remind us of the membership of the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion? Given the Chair's ruling on this matter and focusing on the social inclusion aspect of the sub-committee's remit, has the need to integrate the new communities in Ireland, which make a valuable contribution on a raft of levels, been a focus of previous meetings or will it be so in the schedule of meetings of the sub-committee?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The sub-committee is made up of the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Minister for Education and Science, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, the Minister for Finance, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the Minister for Health and Children and the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. The meetings are also attended by the Minister of State with special responsibility for children, the Minister of State with special responsibility for housing and urban renewal and for drugs strategy and community affairs, the Minister of State with special responsibility for equality, including disability issues, and the Minister of State with special responsibility for labour affairs, including training.
Under the rulings, any of these questions may be asked but they must be put to the line Minister involved. That is not my ruling.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Given that the questions request dates, will the Taoiseach say whether it is or has been considered necessary to convene the Cabinet sub-committee on drugs and social inclusion on an emergency basis? I will make a point in the context of my request for a date. Last night there was an apparent bomb explosion outside a house in Finglas and a pipe bomb attack in Ridgewood in Swords in my constituency. If, as is the suspicion, drugs were involved, should the door not be left open for the sub-committee to meet as the need arises to re-evaluate its response or the Garda response? Can social inclusion, in this case, mean the fear of children being included in such atrocities, which are very often drug-related?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Day-to-day operational issues relating to drugs are dealt with by the Garda Síochána. The Ministers and the sub-committee are involved in co-ordinating various policy issues. The Deputy referred to day-to-day issues, which are dealt with by the Garda Commissioner or the members of the dedicated drugs task force, working with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. They are dealt with on a routine basis, seven days a week every week. Policy issues are discussed in detail by the sub-committee, which meets normally on a monthly basis.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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This is hardly normal activity.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand the regional drug groups received €500,000 each for their work. When the sub-committee next meets, on the date announced by the Taoiseach, will it discuss reports from the different regional groups as to their capacity to deal with tip-offs? I understand a major supply of ecstasy tablets——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is outside the terms of the questions. I ruled Deputy Rabbitte out of order and, in fairness, we must be consistent.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Everything is out of order today. I have tabled a number of questions to the relevant line Ministers on the matters in question and have received answers. Does the serious growth in the illegal drug trade throughout the country now warrant the sub-committee meeting on a more regular basis? Can a report be made available to the sub-committee indicating the seriousness of the situation and making recommendations to line Ministers as to what should be done to combat a situation that is getting out of control?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The drugs issue is not a monthly but a daily issue and meetings are always going on with the regional groups outside of the committee structures. The purpose of the meeting is to co-ordinate activity across Departments and agencies on the policy or day to day issues of drugs and deal with questions put down for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or the Minister of State responsible for dealing with the main drugs issue.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It does not look like that.