Dáil debates

Tuesday, 24 October 2006

Ceisteanna — Questions

Dublin-Monaghan Bombings.

2:30 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the costs which have accrued to his Department in respect of the MacEntee commission of investigation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28203/06]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach when he next expects to receive a report from the MacEntee inquiry; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28204/06]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the position in regard to the MacEntee commission of investigation into aspects of the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings; if he is satisfied that the new deadline of 31 October 2006 for completion of the final report will be met; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28368/06]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he has received the report from Mr. Patrick MacEntee SC regarding the Garda investigation of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1974; the action to be taken in view of this report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28461/06]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach when he expects to receive the final report of the commission of investigation into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1974. [29233/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the progress of the investigation into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30639/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on recent contacts with the British Government regarding the Dublin and Monaghan bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30640/06]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 7, inclusive, together.

In accordance with the recommendations of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, which considered the Barron report on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the Government appointed Mr. Patrick MacEntee SC as sole member of a commission of investigation to examine specific matters relating to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1974, including aspects of the Garda investigation and missing documentation. The appointment was made on 26 April 2005. The amount spent by the commission of investigation to date is €1,822,266, of which €1,155,223 has been spent on legal costs, with the balance of €667,043 going towards the cost of support staff and the administrative cost of the offices of the commission. These costs are well below those associated with a tribunal of inquiry.

I have granted five extensions to the timeframe for the completion of the report from the original date of 14 November 2005. The most recent extension was until 31 October 2006. I have published the five interim reports provided by Mr. MacEntee as required by the legislation and placed copies in the Oireachtas Library.

Yesterday, Mr. MacEntee met officials from my Department, at his request, to discuss administrative arrangements for the completion of his work and publication of the report. In the course of that meeting, he indicated he is likely to seek a further extension. The period of that extension is not yet known. However, he indicated it may be up to six weeks. Both he and I are conscious of the importance, if at all possible, of the report being available while the House is sitting. I expect to receive a formal written request for an extension and a further interim report later this week. I will know the full reasons for the requested extension at that time.

I understand that Mr. MacEntee has completed his investigations and that this further period is required to deal with the final arrangements which the commission is obliged to comply with under the Commissions of Investigation Act. Subject to formal consideration of the matter when I receive a written request and further interim report I am minded to grant that extension once it has been requested. As with all previous interim reports, I will bring it to the attention of the Government and then publish it.

I acknowledge that waiting a further period before the final report is available is difficult for the victims and survivors of these terrible atrocities. Nonetheless, I believe they will agree on the importance of Mr. MacEntee being allowed sufficient time to properly consider and deal with the conclusion of the work of the commission.

I acknowledge the work which Mr. MacEntee has done to date. I am not, of course, in a position to comment on his ongoing work as he is independent.

The Government has been using all appropriate means in its efforts to ensure co-operation from the British Government on this matter. I have raised it with the Prime Minister on a number of occasions and it is frequently raised by senior officials in their contacts. It is clear from his earlier interim reports that Mr. MacEntee has received some co-operation from the British Government and I welcome that development.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the last occasion the Taoiseach answered questions on this subject, we were happy to agree to an extension and it is obvious that Mr. MacEntee has his own reasons for this. Will the Taoiseach indicate why on the last occasion when an extension was sought and granted, that was expected to be the end of the procedure? Has some other issue arisen? Has there been some difficulty in acquiring answers to questions or information which necessitates a further extension now sought by Mr. MacEntee? It is a very important report and we would like to see it concluded in as full a form as possible.

Have the victims and the groups associated with the victims been notified or are they being notified that there will be a further extension required? When that is over and when the report has been agreed by Cabinet, will the Taoiseach ensure a sufficient lead-in time for the victims and the organisations supporting them to have the report and its findings before it is made public?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I undertake to do so, as has been the case with all such reports. I will consult the representatives of the victims' groups and ensure they receive the report in due time. I am not privy to precisely what Mr. MacEntee will report on. I understand from my officials who met him yesterday that his investigative work is completed. He has received quite a lot of co-operation and has followed a lot of new lines. The information available to my officials is limited but he seems to have moved in both aspects of the report. His mission consisted of two issues: to examine the issue of policing and the missing files and equally important, to examine the issues of various people seen in different locations and the various leads that resulted from Mr. Justice Barron's report. I am informed by British sources and by the Secretary of State that there has been quite an engagement on these issues. It is probable there are many legal issues to do with how these matters are dealt with but this is a matter for Mr. MacEntee.

I also know, as I told the House many months ago, he is anxious, for his own reasons, to get this finished. He is not interested in extensions of other work from the committee to do with other cases. He wants to see this work through but is not interested in continuing on to other aspects of the Barron reports. He is working on this mainly on his own but with a small team. I was advised this morning that he will seek a further extension and I am due to receive that letter in the next few days.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Arising from what the Taoiseach has said, has he formed any view or did Mr. MacEntee communicate any view in terms of whether he is satisfied with the co-operation he received from the British authorities? The Taoiseach referred in passing to the number of occasions he raised this matter directly with the British Prime Minister. Will he outline to the House, apart from the delicate issue of how the findings will be communicated to relatives and interested families, how he will purport that the report, when it comes to hand, will be put into the public domain? Am I correct in assuming that, while Mr. MacEntee may make findings of fact, in so far as he can establish them, he is precluded by the legislation from making recommendations? Is that the position?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is my intention to publish the report as soon as possible after it is received. I am required by law to consider certain issues prior to publication. This is likely to involve legal advice from the Attorney General and I have to submit it to the Cabinet for publication. As in the case of other reports, the timescale involved between receipt and publication of reports is impossible to estimate because of the legal arguments that arise every time mainly about publishing names.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It may not be published this year.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It depends on what is in the report and how Mr. MacEntee presents it, but I certainly wish to publish the report as quickly as possible because we have to put it into the committee. The House must be sitting when we publish the report. As I understand it, Mr. MacEntee can make recommendations. On the point I made about the British Government, I think there has been co-operation because Mr. MacEntee said the British side has been co-operating. How the information he has got can be legally used is the issue. There are a whole lot of intricacies involved but we will have to wait and see. In all these reports the difficulty arises when it comes to statements of fact and information. The use of names of people who are still alive, or their families, is the continual difficulty that arises.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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In light of what the Taoiseach said to Deputy Kenny, without pre-empting the letter he is due to receive from Mr. MacEntee, is it anticipated that the further extension will be towards the end of 2006 or beyond? Is there an indication of what the time period may be for the final phase of the work? On his reply to Deputy Rabbitte, there was a phrase in the last progress report where Mr. MacEntee talked about the disclosure of sensitive material to the commission for the purposes of the investigation from persons, agencies and entities and that that would involve careful consideration. Obviously this has an impact on the final report. At this stage has the Taoiseach an indication of the number of people who were involved in this process and how it might compromise the final report of the MacEntee commission?

This is the first such commission set up under the Commissions of Investigation Act 2004 and its first year of operation has run a cost of €1.73 million. As this is the first practical experience of this type of commission, does the Taoiseach have an opinion as to whether it compares favourably with other such entities? Does it represent appropriate value for money?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As regards timing, I know that Mr. MacEntee would like to wrap up this work on the important aspects that were referred to him. Obviously, he wants to bring it to a successful conclusion following the work of the Hamilton and Barron inquires as well as the work of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. He has done a lot of work and brought the inquiry to a stage beyond that dealt with by Hamilton and Barron. There are legal complexities in dealing with these important issues which date from a long time ago.

The costs involved are not large compared to other tribunals or commissions. In fairness, it is one of the most difficult inquiries because it is dealing with matters that occurred over 30 years ago. It has been trying to piece together data and seek information through the British Government system, so it is far more complex than the normal work of an inquiry would be.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Has the Taoiseach decided how the report will be dealt with when published? Will there be public hearings on the report? Will Mr. MacEntee be able to appear before a joint committee in order to respond to questions on the report? Has that matter been considered or will we have to wait until the report is published? Does the Taoiseach recall that the central demand of the survivors and the bereaved relatives of those who died in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings has always been for a statutory inquiry? Does he also recall that this House unanimously sought an inquiry by the British Government into the murder of Pat Finucane? In that regard, would the Taoiseach acknowledge that——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is moving away from the substance of these questions.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is a related question. Does the Taoiseach acknowledge that the Government's proposals in the tribunals of inquiries Bill——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to stay within the confines of the seven questions before us.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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——would give new powers to Ministers to close down inquiries and censor reports such as the MacEntee commission's report? Hopefully, that will never happen but Ministers would have those powers in the future, which would undermine the demands from Justice for the Forgotten for full disclosure.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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For many decades nothing happened on all of these matters. In recent years, however, we have worked through Mr. Justice Hamilton, Mr. Justice Barron, the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights and, currently, the Commissions of Investigation Act to obtain and make available as much detail as we can from the British system, the Northern Ireland Office and the Garda Síochána. As I have done with all these reports, it is my intention to place the MacEntee report in the Oireachtas Library and furnish a copy to the committee that has dealt with these matters for a number of years. It will be for the committee to see how these matters will be progressed. Given the holistic approach to this and other reports, we have succeeded in throwing more light on issues about which almost no factual information was in the public domain up to now. The Commissions of Investigation Act allows us to deal with such issues.

As regards the Finucane case, we have not changed our position; we continue to seek an inquiry by the British Government into that matter. The British legislation is different from ours because it allows a Minister to engage with, become directly involved in and limit information. Our Act does not do so.