Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 111: To ask the Minister for Health and Children her views on an independent, international, expert peer review of the decision to site the new children's hospital on the campus of the Mater Hospital; her further views on the fact that a commitment was given to the Mater Hospital that a new children's hospital would be developed on its campus; her views on whether this throws serious doubts over the independent, non-political nature of the decision; if she or the Health Service Executive received any submission from Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children, Crumlin on this issue; if so, the contents of this submission and her response; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [29761/06]

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

A review of tertiary paediatric services carried out by McKinsey & Company on behalf of the Health Service Executive recommended the establishment of a single tertiary paediatric hospital in Dublin, co-located with a leading adult academic hospital. Subsequently, a joint HSE-Department of Health and Children task group was established to advise on the optimum location of the proposed new hospital. The task group's report was submitted to the board of the HSE on 1 June last, and its recommendation that the new paediatric hospital be developed as an independent hospital on a site to be made available by the Mater Hospital was endorsed by the board. At its meeting on 8 June, the Government also strongly endorsed the recommendation.

Neither the Taoiseach, I nor any other members of the Government had meetings or discussions with the task group during the course of its work. I am satisfied that the task group undertook a rigorous and robust examination of the key issues in arriving at its recommendation. To suggest that the decision was influenced by political considerations is an affront to the integrity of the members of the group.

A joint HSE-Department of Health and Children transition group has since been established to advance the development of the new hospital. Among the key items to be addressed are the definition of a high level framework brief for the new hospital and the determination of the scope and location of the urgent care centres. I understand that the group intends to retain outside expertise to assist it in its work.

I recently met representatives from Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children and was informed that the hospital has commissioned its own report on the issues relating to the location of the national paediatric hospital. I understand that the joint transition group received a copy of the report in recent days and that it is being examined. A further meeting with the Crumlin representatives will take place when this process is complete. The decision about the site for the new hospital has now been made and it is essential that all those involved focus on implementing that decision. This is in the best interests of the children of this country.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Does the Minister accept that there is a concern that the decision to locate the hospital on this site was politically influenced and that having looked at the site, there are serious questions over it? For example, Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children would transfer its services from a 15-acre site to one restricted to less than four acres to include all paediatric services. The deal offered to the hospital will be on a flying leasehold under which the hospital would have no ownership or charge of anything underground, including the carparking. Access is difficult and serious concerns have been raised in the report from Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children, which I thought the Minister would have made it her business to see.

Is the Minister saying she has not seen the report, or that neither she nor the Health Service Executive has received it?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thought I said I had received it in the past few days.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Has the Minister had a chance to look at it?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have read only the summary. I intend to read it over the next few days. It is a technical report and I am not a building expert who knows about land size and so on but I will read it.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It will be important for the Minister to comment on it because the indications are that there are serious technical problems in terms of the leasehold, the site, access and services. Is the Minister stating that Government policy is to have only one hospital and that the idea of two hospitals, north and south of the Liffey, is not, and will not be, Government policy?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Before I became Minister for Health and Children I had given little consideration to paediatric services and knew little about them. Since then, virtually every paediatrician I met in this city and around the country said we should bring the services together and have a state-of-the-art hospital. We were planning to build a new hospital in Crumlin, probably on-site, and a new hospital for Temple Street Children's Hospital, and we have facilities in Beaumont, Tallaght and St. James's hospitals.

McKinsey was commissioned to examine best practice around the world. It studied approximately 17 countries and concluded the child population here merited only one tertiary facility bringing all the expertise together. Furthermore, it said that because of the relatively small number of children who would require certain specialists these would have to be shared with adult services.

When the McKinsey report was published last Christmas everybody signed up to it. Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children, Temple Street Children's Hospital and Tallaght Hospital all regarded it as a good report and were optimistic. The difficulty arose when the site selection began. Several sites were examined. I am not an expert in construction or hospitals but I have visited hospitals in the United States which are on small sites. There are several in Manhattan and I recently saw one in Toronto.

Although Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin is on a large site it does not fill the site. Obviously the site must accommodate the hospital but the most important factor is what happens in the hospital. I hope everyone will work to make the hospital a state-of-the-art, world class facility for children.

The intention is to have one hospital for the country, not just Dublin. Urgent care centres will be provided in at least one, if not more locations, and the group has been asked to examine how many of these centres are required. Thankfully, these deal with 95% of the reasons children go to hospital in the first instance.

All those who tendered to have the hospital co-located, including St. James's, St. Vincent's, Beaumont, Tallaght and the Mater hospitals, offered sites. That was the basis on which the decision was made and no problems arose about the site. No ethos issues arose because this will be a State hospital. It will not belong to the Mater Hospital, although there seems to be some confusion about that. We will introduce legislation to ensure it is owned by the State.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is not strictly true because the Mater Hospital will own the car park. That is a significant factor for access for parents and children. Does the Minister not accept that grave and serious concerns are being expressed by the authorities at St. James's Hospital, Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin and Tallaght Hospital about the decision that has been made? The Minister is saying she is not in a position to judge those concerns, but is she prepared to establish an independent review to assess the difficulties which have been highlighted and exposed in the analysis carried out by the hospitals? It is important that we get this right. It is quite clear there are concerns about political interference. It is believed that problems will arise which will have a significant impact on patients.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I assure the Deputy there was no political interference — that is certain. The group that has been established to make progress with this initiative, which comprises officials from the Health Service Executive and the Department of Health and Children, will examine the submission made by Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin. I accept there is disappointment in certain quarters. When I met representatives of St. James's Hospital yesterday, they acknowledged during our very positive meeting that the decision has been made. It is clear they want to work with those in the new hospital. Many clinicians from St. James's Hospital are also working at Crumlin at present. There is a great deal of expertise, for example in the burns unit. Some specialist cancer services are based at St. James's Hospital. It is important that those who work in such areas co-operate with the new hospital, as they want to do. I do not want a situation of permanent review to develop because people are not happy with the decision that has been taken. If there are real issues which make it physically impossible for the hospital to be located in the intended location, for whatever reason, that will be a different matter. It is clear that it cannot happen in such circumstances. I have been advised that is not the case, however. The technical expertise available to me in the Department and to the HSE strongly suggests that is not the position. We will certainly give some consideration to the submission that has been made by Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin.