Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 108: To ask the Minister for Health and Children the status of the review of PPARS; the reasons it is under review; the reasons the date for completion of this review extends beyond the date of the next general election; the cost of this review; in view of an ongoing review of this project, her views on the call for tenders on the Government's tenders website for consultants to roll out the PPARS system; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [29760/06]

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I have sought the up to date position on PPARS from the Health Service Executive and it has informed me as follows:

The PPARS system is currently used for recording human resource data for 70,000 HSE staff and is used to pay 30,000 staff each week. The HSE's PPARS project review committee has completed its review. Arising from that, the HSE has decided on a set of actions aimed basically at meeting the requirements of the new unified health service with a single management, rather than those of separate health boards working on an IT project together, which is how the PPARS project started in 1995. These actions involve defining precisely the HSE's human resource, payroll and employee services requirements and maximising the efficiency of the project from its current situation.

This plan of action follows an update to the HSE board from the PPARS review committee, which highlighted that while the project is delivering many benefits, some business issues remain to be resolved. These include the major and ongoing changes since 1995 to the business environment in which the project operates; the need to further standardise processing systems and the need to clarify the project's objectives and scope within the new single structure. It is envisaged that this work will take several months to complete and I am anxious for it to be completed as quickly as possible.

The timing of this work has nothing to do with the general election taking place next summer. To suggest or speculate otherwise is wholly without foundation and an injustice to the HSE board and its management. The estimated costs of the work will have to be determined by the project group being established to progress these actions.

The recent request on the Government's e-tender website related to the HSE's request for assistance with the definition of its information and reporting needs to meet its requirements and obligations under the new unified HSE structure. The assistance being requested does not relate to the further roll-out of the PPARS project, the decision on which is being deferred until the necessary work has been completed.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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This really is a right old mess. It is now generally accepted in the public mind that we have a tax and waste Government. We have seen the waste of money on e-voting and on PPARS, which already is about €130 million. We find that some 30,000 people are being paid using this system at the moment. Does the Minister yet know how many people are employed by the HSE and what the precise number is? This review follows after a ten-month period of review within the HSE. Why do we need another nine-month review period? I did not create that timescale. The HSE is telling us it will take up to nine months, which takes us beyond the next general election. How much will it cost? Will consultants be employed to carry out this work? At the end of the day what is the benefit in terms of ensuring we have a system, which has already cost the taxpayer enormous sums of money without any significant results?

It seems incredible, after years of PPARS, that the Minister is now reaching a point where a review is to be carried out in the context of a unified system. The HSE is a unified system. We have had a national health executive since 1 January 2005. How is it that at this point we are now facing another review? The Minister will not tell us how much it will cost, but I ask her to say what the budget for it is and whether yet more consultants are to be employed. It seems to me private consultants have made enough money out of this cash cow without shovelling more money at them. Who will do it? How much will it cost? How long will it take? How many people are working within the health service, which is the responsibility of the Minister?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It was decided to pursue this course in 1995. I do not wish to make a political point, but nobody on this side of the House was in office when this decision was made. It has recently come to light that the money was not appropriately spent at the time. There was a system for the 11 different health boards. The HSE employed outside consultants to conduct its internal review, which cost £99,227 for 94 hours consultancy. In light of that review, it was decided it should not be rolled out until it appropriately specifies what it wants for a unified organisation. The HSE pay 30,000 staff using the system and it has the human resource records of about 70,000 staff. In total, the HSE has about 102,000 staff, when hospital staff are included. That figure can vary from time to time.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Minister has not answered the question. We still do not know how many people are employed. She has not told us how much the review will cost. I am talking about the review and the plan to which the Minister referred. Will she employ consultants to carry out that work? We have already spent money on consultants for the review since last November. I remind the Minister that the only reason PPARS was halted was because Professor Drumm took action.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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He appropriately took action. Professor Drumm is the CEO and Accounting Officer of the HSE. I said in my reply that the HSE had gone to tender on this matter, so I cannot speculate on what it will cost until we see the outcome of the tender. Even if we had an idea, we would not want to influence the tender by suggesting what it might be. The roll-out of IT is fundamental to reform of the health system, at both hospital level and in community services. We will have to spend a considerable amount of money updating our technology to deliver the health system that everyone expects.