Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 37: To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the dates on which he expects each of the agencies under his auspices listed for decentralisation to complete the process; the extent to which existing specialist staff will be lost in the move; the impact on the capacity to deliver quality service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24057/06]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Four of the agencies under the aegis of my Department are due to decentralise as follows: FÁS is to move 383 posts to Birr, County Offaly; Enterprise Ireland is to move 292 posts to Shannon; the Health and Safety Authority is to move 110 posts to Thomastown, County Kilkenny, and the National Standards Authority of Ireland is to move 132 posts to Arklow, County Wicklow.

Under the Government's decentralisation programme, FÁS is due to transfer its head office including 383 staff to Birr, County Offaly with a target date of 2009. There is no sub-category for specialist posts. The FÁS plan is predicated on the maintenance of services while the decentralisation programme is being implemented. FÁS is confident that the process can be managed in such a manner that specialist services provided by the organisation will be unaffected.

The Health and Safety Authority is to move 110 posts to Thomastown, County Kilkenny. The authority has been advised by OPW that as the site procurement is in the final stages, the current time line for availability for occupancy is late 2008. Twenty-one new recruits, along with four serving staff who wish to move in advance of the Thomastown premises being available, will shortly move to interim accommodation in Kilkenny city.

It is assumed the specialist staff referred to hold inspector positions. It is not possible for the authority to predict what decisions individual staff members may take in respect of their career choices. Therefore, it is impossible to predict what specialist staff will be lost to the authority during the decentralisation programme.

All specialist posts based in the Dublin headquarters of the Health and Safety Authority are earmarked for decentralisation, but as part of the decentralisation plan, the need to maintain an office in Dublin to service the Dublin region would require 34 specialists.

Currently the authority has approximately 100 inspectors of which in excess of 60% are based in Dublin. Of these, seven have applied through CAF to relocate. In addition, a number of specialist posts have also been filled on promotion on the basis of the final location of the post being Thomastown. Nine new inspectors have been recruited on the basis that their eventual location will be Thomastown.

The figures outlined exclude REACH staff. All staff, both specialist and administrative which includes up to 44, sanctioned for REACH will be based in Thomastown.

I understand the authority has identified loss of specialist staff as a real risk and has proposals in its decentralisation plan to deal with that risk. The authority has a comprehensive programme of work approved by the board of the authority and presented to my Department in accordance with the provision of the Safety, Health and Welfare Act 2005. The authority is fully committed to delivering on its programme of work in 2006 and subsequent years while moving forward with its decentralisation implementation plan as published on the website and updated from time to time.

The NSAI projects April 2009 as the completion date under its current decentralisation plan, for the move of 132 posts to Arklow. NSAI has 74 posts of specialist skills planned for relocation under the decentralisation move to Arklow. Currently, eight holders of these specialist posts have expressed their willingness to transfer with their post to Arklow. The decentralisation plan developed by the authority addresses the delivery of quality service and recognises the requirement to manage this issue.

The Government has decided that the headquarters of Enterprise Ireland, including 292 posts, will relocate to Shannon as part of the decentralisation programme. Of these posts, some 107 are in the technical and professional grades, while 25 are senior managers working in general administrative grades with specialist skills and experience, giving a total of 132 specialist posts in all.

The most recent information from the CAF indicates that 19 Enterprise Ireland staff applied for decentralisation to Enterprise Ireland in Shannon. Of these, seven are in technical and professional grades, based in Dublin, and in posts that have been identified for relocation to Shannon; and four are in technical and professional grades and are based outside Dublin or in posts that have not been designated for relocation to Shannon.

The timing of the major move of Enterprise Ireland staff to Shannon town is dependent on having sufficient, suitably qualified and experienced people opting to transfer to Shannon, within the terms of the Government decision, to undertake the work of the areas scheduled for location in Shannon. It is too early at this stage to predict with certainty when a sufficient cadre of suitably qualified and experienced staff will be in place. Therefore, while a preferred site has been identified in Shannon, in consultation with the OPW, it is not possible to say when the move to Shannon will be completed.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister believe Enterprise Ireland can continue to deliver its services if less than 5% of its staffing is willing to move to the new location? The same proportion applies across all the agencies — less than 5% willing to move with their services. Is the Minister stating that these boards guarantee that they can continue to deliver services in the new locations despite losing up to 95% of their staff, with the result that he must fill vacancies or achieve new recruits for those vast gaps that are opening up?

Is he satisfied that there will not be losses of critical skills? In reply to a parliamentary question of mine, he indicated that of nearly 300 key specialist skills staff in these agencies, less than 25 are willing to move. I ask the Minister to explain to the House how these agencies can continue to deliver services if there is such a degree of meltdown in their critical areas of expertise. In his reply, the Minister did not mention how he thought they could deliver a quality service without these critical staff and that is a critical issue.

As the Minister responsible, what offer will he make to the members of staff who opt to remain in Dublin, as is their right? What is he saying to the staff in Enterprise Ireland, in the Health and Safety Authority, in the national standards authority or in FÁS? What options do they have if they opt to stay in Dublin but their body, their employer with whom they have a contract, moves out?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am satisfied the agencies will manage this process in such a way as not to undermine or jeopardise their core activities or performance.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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What evidence does the Minister have of that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not interrupt Deputy Bruton and I would appreciate being allowed the opportunity to reply.

Enterprise Ireland's results, published yesterday, are a clear manifestation that the decentralisation process is not undermining its performance or capacity to achieve and to work. Subsequent to previous decentralisation of major agencies such as the Central Statistics Office, there was no evidence that the activities, services or standards of agencies or of Departments or units of Departments transferred were undermined.

It really depends on one's political viewpoint and one's commitment to the concept of decentralisation. There are challenges and as I stated publicly already, we have to approach the area of agencies differently than we approached the area of the Civil Service. My Department, for example, which is transferring to Carlow, has made rapid progress on that decentralisation project and is well in line to achieve its target. Clearly, the same experience has not been evident in agencies. Nonetheless, the Health and Safety Authority is making good progress in terms of the Thomastown site and being in a position to move on an interim basis to Kilkenny city.

We will continue to work through the centralised arrangements in consultation with the social partners to advance the agenda, but without undermining the activities of the agencies concerned.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister accept that it is not sufficient to state that because the CSO move worked, this will work in all these specialist agencies? What evidence has he given that it will work? Can he give me the business case he put together stating why Enterprise Ireland should move as he proposes? What is the business case for the move of FÁS, the HSA and the national standards authority? Is it not the case that no business case was made by his Department for these moves? These were moves decided — as he correctly stated — on a political basis, not on the basis of any proper evaluation of the issues.

Is it not incumbent on him, as Minister, to spell out this different approach which he states must be taken with our agencies? He is responsible for these agencies. He is responsible for the delivery of their services. He should tell us the different approach he is now taking so that they can build their plans on some certainty of what the political approach will be. I have not heard of a single offer to the staff in Enterprise Ireland, FÁS, HSA or NSAI as to what they will get if they opt to remain in Dublin and, as the Minister will be aware, up to 90% of them are making that decision. The Minister must tell us this new approach. Just because he states this is a sort of political stroke, he should not expect that we go away and state we do not hold him accountable for delivering quality services from these new locations. We want to see the evidence and the strategy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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At no stage have I stated this is a political stroke and Deputy Bruton is clearly distorting what I stated in that regard. I appreciate the Deputy's honesty in saying he is basically against decentralisation.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not saying that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I must take that on board.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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That is a political stroke. The Minister is completely misrepresenting what Deputy Bruton said.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it is a fact. Members are taking a two-sided approach to decentralisation. Many Dublin-based Members and Opposition spokespersons articulate a negative attitude to decentralisation to please their constituency——

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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When will the Minister answer the questions? What is the business case? What is his strategy? He should not lecture the Opposition on what he thinks we might think.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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——while their colleagues down the country are endlessly beseeching Ministers about decentralisation.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will not answer the questions.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A duplicitous approach is emerging on the issue of decentralisation.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will not answer the questions.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge challenges must be overcome to successfully implement the programme but the bottom line is the reason behind it is to increase and facilitate development throughout the regions and to act as a catalyst for further development in those regions.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has not answered the questions.