Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Question 49: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the envisaged timescale for the State to significantly reduce or completely eradicate consistent and relative poverty. [23222/06]

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Since 1997, with the first national anti-poverty strategy, the Government has adopted a strategic approach to reduce and eliminate poverty. The need for a strategic approach reflects the complex nature of poverty which is multi-faceted in its causes and effects, and, as a consequence, requires a multi-policy response.

It has been a priority of successive governments to reduce and, if possible, eliminate basic poverty. To measure progress in achieving this objective, the consistent poverty indicator was devised by the ESRI. The numbers experiencing consistent poverty is calculated by identifying, from among those at risk of poverty, those deprived of at least one good or service considered essential for a basic standard of living in Ireland today. The data for this indicator are obtained from the EU Survey on Income and Living Conditions, EU-SILC.

The survey in 2003 showed a significant reduction in the consistent poverty rate, from 8.8% in 2003 to 6.8% in 2004 continuing a downward trend over the period since 1997. The low levels of unemployment and the substantial resources devoted to social welfare and other social services, which have been increasing in real terms, are bringing about this downward trend. Analysis suggests that 250,000 people, including 100,000 children, have been lifted out of deprivation and hardship since 1997 as a result of the concentrated and targeted measures and supports.

The Government is committed to continuing these policies. It is simply not possible to say with confidence, however, especially in light of methodological and measurement issues, when the policies will result in consistent poverty being fully eliminated. The level of consistent poverty will continue to be measured under EU-SILC which will enable us to monitor the progress being made and to apply extra resources and revised policies to meet the overall goal.

The "at risk of poverty" indicator is one of the common indicators agreed at EU level. It measures the numbers with incomes below 60% of median income for the whole population. Paradoxically, the numbers below this "at risk of poverty" threshold have increased in recent years despite the significant improvement in real terms of incomes across the board. This has been due to the major increase in the incomes of the population as a whole, arising from more and better employment and lower tax levels. Other key factors are the major reduction in unemployment and increased employment participation.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

Those most at risk of poverty are families with children, particularly lone parents and larger families, people with disabilities and older persons living alone. A key policy objective is to remove barriers to employment for those capable of employment and provide the supports they need to obtain employment, such as education, training and child care. A discussion paper on ways of meeting these challenges for lone parents and other low-income families with children is being considered.

A decrease in the "at risk of poverty" rate from 19.7% in 2003 to 19.4% in 2004 was recorded by EU-SILC and shows that existing policies are beginning to have an effect on this indicator. Given the dependence of this indicator on the movement of incomes generally and their volatility over recent years, it is difficult to set targets for a reduction in numbers classified as at risk of poverty under this measure, or state when poverty classified in this way will be eliminated.

The main purpose of indicators is to identify clearly those who are most deprived and vulnerable in society and the progress being made in improving their position. These issues are currently being addressed in the preparation of the next national action plan against poverty and social exclusion, being co-ordinated by the office for social inclusion in my Department, which is due to be finalised by September.

I am confident that, through the targeted measures being taken by the Government and the initiatives being planned, a decisive and lasting impact will be made in the eradication of poverty.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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We have attended launches of many different reports in recent years. The reality is that those on welfare, those from the Traveller community, those leaving school early, homeless people, those with a disability, elderly people and lone parents are more likely to be poor than wealthy. I attended a recent launch at which the Minister claimed all the reports are complete and it is now time for action, on which we all agree. The Minister spoke about 65,000 children living in consistent poverty in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. The Government agreed that by 2007 it would eradicate consistent poverty or reduce the consistent poverty rate to 2% and make a decisive impact on the eradication of relative poverty. Is it on course to achieve this commitment?

Ireland has the highest level of relative poverty in the European Union and child poverty rates are among the highest in the OECD. Does the Minister accept that in 2004 almost one in five of the population was living in relative poverty and approximately 7% of the population was living in consistent poverty? The benefits of economic growth are not trickling down and our performance in wealth distribution has been shameful. Using consistent poverty measures, the Combat Poverty Agency estimates that 150,000 children suffer deprivation. The figures and methods used to calculate consistent poverty are to be changed. Will this involve playing with the figures?

The most recent European Union survey on income and living conditions, which was published in December 2005, found that 19.4% of the population was living in relative poverty. Barnardos has indicated that one in seven children live in poverty. It is shameful that any child should live in poverty in such a rich country. Moreover, one in three children from disadvantaged areas has problems with reading and writing. I am concerned that a large cohort of people has been excluded from society. One in three children in disadvantaged areas leaves school without a qualification such as the leaving certificate and only one in 100 children from disadvantaged backgrounds are given an opportunity to engage in out-of-school activities, despite their proven development benefits.

A wide range of reports and analyses have been produced and policies have been introduced to address child poverty. Is the Government on target to eradicate poverty and remove 65,000 children from consistent poverty? When will this goal be achieved? Will it be in our lifetime or will another generation be stuck in poverty as the figures and research available would suggest? Resources are still not being pumped into disadvantaged areas and children are still leaving school early. Given that education is one of the keys to eliminating poverty, why is the necessary investment not coming on stream?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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With more than 1 million children living in this country, one must approach the figure of 65,000 with caution. A series of debates is taking place on how to measure poverty. The ESRI produced a list of eight basic deprivation indicators, including not having a roast or its equivalent once a week; not having a meal with meat, chicken or fish every second day; having to go without heating due to lack of money at some point in the year; not having a substantial meal on one day in the previous two weeks; and experiencing debt problems arising from ordinary living expenses.

While these indicators point to deprivation, in certain circumstances some of the measures more closely describe lifestyle than deprivation. When we talk about relative poverty we are really talking about lifestyle as opposed to poverty as we know it. My target is to eradicate consistent poverty, which affects 65,000 people, as quickly as I can. I cannot give a timeframe within which this goal will be achieved, except to repeat a figure I gave in answer to an earlier question. In a ten year period 250,000 people, including 100,000 children, were lifted out of poverty. This shows the pace at which progress has been made. We need to dramatically accelerate progress and are doing so through substantial increases in social welfare payments. In the past five or six years, expenditure on direct social welfare benefits has increased from €7 billion to €13 billion, the bulk of which is directed towards helping the vulnerable and those on means tested schemes. A substantial portion of these moneys is paid to low income families through family income supplement and other schemes. I will continue to work on the second tier concept and hope to have a version ready soon which will target available funds at children in consistent poverty.