Dáil debates

Thursday, 11 May 2006

4:00 pm

Photo of Michael MulcahyMichael Mulcahy (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his plans to provide pensions to Irish missionaries who live in developing countries and who do not intend to return to Ireland. [17303/06]

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 67: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the position on old age pension payments to Irish missionaries who have served overseas and who propose to remain there; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17537/06]

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 124: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the progress made on paying old age pensions to Irish missionaries who wish to remain abroad after retirement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17829/06]

Photo of Séamus BrennanSéamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 67 and 124 together.

My Department operates two main types of pension schemes, contributory and non-contributory payments. Contributory payments are paid on the basis of social insurance contributions made over a person's working life. The standard qualifying conditions for contributory pensions require an ongoing commitment to the social insurance system over a sustained period. However, special pensions such as the pre-1953 pension and other types of pro rata pensions are in place to cater for people with less than complete records. Missionaries who have made sufficient social insurance contributions can qualify for the State contributory pension. Contributory pensions are payable abroad, so qualifying missionaries who chose to settle overseas can receive payments.

The non-contributory pension is more problematic in that residence within the State is a pre-condition for receiving this pension. Any move to pay the old age non-contributory pension outside the State could cause difficulties in light of EU regulations on social security arrangements for migrant workers. The question of paying pensions to missionaries who remain abroad was first raised in the context of a submission to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs by the Irish Missionary Union. Subsequently, officials of my Department made a presentation to the committee on the issue. Following that presentation, the Chairman of the committee decided to form a working group to look at the issues raised in more detail.

My Department and Irish Aid are jointly drafting a report for the working group which will examine the question of pensions for missionaries and the wider issue of social insurance for volunteer development workers in general. That report will then be submitted to the working group for its consideration. The options for providing pensions for missionaries will be considered in the context of the final report of the joint committee.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister indicate when the report will be published? Concerns exist within the working group of the Committee on Foreign Affairs about whether an early response will be received. Has the Minister taken into consideration the suggestions made about crediting people who made contributions prior to leaving this country? What progress has been made on that model?

Photo of Séamus BrennanSéamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have a timeframe for the report but I imagine it will be completed within the next few months.

Photo of David StantonDavid Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister know how many former missionaries find themselves without State pensions because they were not in a position to make PRSI contributions?

Photo of Séamus BrennanSéamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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We have not compiled statistics on those who might apply if a scheme were put in place. All those who apply for the non-contributory payment are subject to the provisions of the habitual residence condition. Missionaries retiring here are deemed to satisfy the condition and will, subject to a means test, qualify for pensions. Unfortunately, those who return here on visits cannot be deemed to satisfy the condition because their centres of interest are not in this country.

I pay tribute to our missionaries for the fabulous work they have carried out for many generations. Their efforts have become part of our history. If they come home, they are fully entitled to apply for a non-contributory pension or the contributory pension, provided they made the necessary payments before leaving the country. Problems arise, however, with those who return for short periods or on extended holidays because it is not clear that pension arrangements can be made for such visits.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister realise that many of these missionaries spent 40 or 50 years out of the country, often spending their working lives in tropical countries and that they wish to remain abroad? Given that they would qualify if they returned home, is it not possible to work out a formula based on the total number of such people? Can that be done as a matter of urgency? It is not impossible to retrieve that information and the expense would not be great if the people in question could be isolated.

Photo of Séamus BrennanSéamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Given the great work the missionaries do, I am sympathetic to that proposal. If they return permanently to Ireland, they will in all likelihood qualify for non-contributory pensions. However, the position of other volunteer development workers must be considered before extending these provisions. Since 1985, social welfare regulations have been modified to provide a measure of assistance by crediting contributions for periods of absence of up to five years.

To clarify my earlier response to Deputy Stanton, while my Department has not made an official estimate, the Irish Missionary Union, in its submission to the Committee on Foreign Affairs, estimated that approximately 800 missionaries could immediately receive pensions at an estimated cost of €7 million per year. The IMU believed the numbers would peak at 1,000 per year and annual costs at €9 million. We understand that this could be an underestimation and Irish Aid has been in contact with missionary organisations to clarify the position.

Problems arise in terms of habitual residence clauses, volunteer workers and a pension system which does not easily lend itself to exemptions on the basis of the type of work people have done. It is difficult to extend pensions to people who come for short periods but, if they return permanently, they will almost certainly qualify for non-contributory pensions.