Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Question 5: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if, in view of the potential for electoral fraud arising from the large-scale inaccuracies in the electoral register, all voters will be required to produce identification before being permitted to cast their vote. [16791/06]

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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In establishing the detailed arrangements for citizens to cast their vote, it is necessary to strike a proper balance between the requirement to maintain the security and integrity of the electoral process and providing a necessary degree of flexibility. The Deputy is rightly concerned and has been concerned for some time about having maximum assurance about the genuine credentials of persons presenting themselves to vote. However, requiring the vetting of identification documents in all cases would cause delay in voting arrangements. More importantly, 100% vetting would remove a necessary flexibility from the system. For example, if an elderly voter who is well known to everyone at a polling station and is not challenged by anyone fails to bring along a particular document, would it be reasonable to reject his or her request to vote? I think not. We are not Ryanair.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Exempt the elderly.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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That is not what Deputy Gregory asked in his question. At the polling station, the returning officer or the presiding officer may or, if required by a personation agent, shall request any person applying for a ballot paper to produce a specified identification document. I will not list the range of documents because they are well known to Members of the House.

If a person fails to produce a required document or if the returning officer or the presiding officer is not satisfied that the person is the person to whom the document relates, he or she is not to be permitted to vote. My Department has considerably strengthened its recommendations to returning and presiding officers about the frequency of document checking. Prior to 2002, the recommended frequency was one in 20 and in 2002, this was increased to one in four. I will continue to insist that the recommended frequency be one in four in the upcoming general election.

Electoral law sets out a range of offences and penalties in respect of personation, including a new offence provided for under the Electoral (Amendment) Act 2004 for the unlawful possession or use of a polling information card. I will continue to keep this important matter, including the scope for further improvements, under review. Deputy Gregory must accept that some degree of flexibility in the polling station is positive.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I do not know what the aim of this flexibility is. Did the Minister have in mind the flexibility to personate someone? Anyone, regardless of age, must produce identification when he or she wishes to collect a pension, access a post office account or obtain a residential parking disc from a local authority. Regardless of the transaction they are engaged in, people require identification, and rightly so. However, one does not need to produce identification when one is electing a Government. Even under the Minister's new arrangement, 75% of voters can present themselves with no identification. They do not even require a polling card. All they need to produce is a name and address, and if challenged, they can walk away. This is the democratic process, Fianna Fáil style.

The Minister was correct in saying that I have raised this question for very good reasons since I entered this House because I have witnessed what went on in polling stations in my constituency, activity which was not confined to Fianna Fáil.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear. Look at Dublin North-Central.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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The issue of who was involved in this activity was well covered by the Sunday Independent a few years ago.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does Deputy Gregory have a question for the Minister?

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Does the Minister not accept that my request is really an appeal to make the democratic process secure? If the Minister issues an instruction that anyone presenting himself or herself to vote must bring along a piece of identification, be it a passport, pension book or utility bill, it will not cause delay. If this message is disseminated, people will not turn up without identification. They do not go to the post office without identification when they want their social welfare book and they always bring identification to any place where it is required. The Minister should at least give people that much credit. The Minister has responsibility in this regard but under the present system, is allowing a situation to continue where there is——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is now Question Time, it is not a time for speeches and we are running out of time.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I am asking the Minister whether he is aware that he is allowing——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to give way to the Minister.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Does the Minister not accept that under the present system, he is overseeing a situation where there is no deterrent against mass personation, yet three or four votes can elect a Member of this House?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Gregory is making a speech. I ask the Deputy to give way to the Minister. It is now Question Time.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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A total of 75% of people will not require identification and will not be challenged in the polling station. Anyone who is challenged can simply walk away.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Members have complained that we are not getting through questions. We get through three questions per day.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps Deputy Gregory is more interested in the question than the answer. To require an inspection of specific documentation in all cases of people coming to polling stations would be impractical and would delay matters.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Nonsense.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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That is precisely what Deputy Gregory said because his question referred to all voters.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Yes.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I listened to Deputy Gregory's ranting so I would be grateful if he would listen to my answer. It is called courtesy. If one were to ask that every person be challenged and that a person be disallowed a vote, particularly an elderly person who does not possess a specific document at the time, Deputy Gregory would be the first person to rightly challenge it. The operation of the challenging system would deliver what Deputy Gregory wishes to achieve. A one in four challenge is significantly higher than would be the norm in any transaction. Deputy Gregory is correct in saying that people in the main are used to carrying identification. This is why I feel it is appropriate that we increase challenges from one in 20 to one in four. To suggest that we should challenge every voter, even when he or she may be an elderly voter who may have lived for 60 or 70 years in the same house and is well known to every person in the polling station, and decide on a bureaucratic whim that he or she should be denied the opportunity to vote is impractical and undemocratic.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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The Minister is a disgrace.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That language is not appropriate in a House of Parliament.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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That remains my view.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I would prefer Deputy Gregory to keep such views to himself and not express them in this House.

Tony Gregory (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I am not here to keep my views to myself.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Minister should examine the situation in Dublin North-Central.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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My views about Deputy Gregory will remain unspoken because the decorum of the House will not allow me to put them on the record. "Chancer" would be one of the words I would use, but I will not use it.