Dáil debates
Wednesday, 3 May 2006
Adjournment Debate.
Decentralisation Programme.
8:00 pm
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I welcome the Minister for Finance and the Minister of State at the Department of Finance to the House. It is a rare honour.
The decision by the former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, to decentralise thousands of civil servants, announced in his budget a number of years ago, was a political decision that has caused chaos in the lives of thousands of civil and public servants and their families. That was the legacy of the great free marketeer we had as Minister for Finance for many years. Essentially, it was a question of putting profit before people, without much consideration as to their lives, and making a contribution towards winning the next general election for Fianna Fáil. We see how he has gone on to Europe to introduce the services directive. He has had more opposition there than he had in this country. Perhaps that is a reflection on all of us.
My point is about the 400 FÁS employees in Dublin, only six of whom have opted to transfer to Birr, County Offaly. Interestingly enough, this is the constituency in which both the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, and the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, are both representatives. They have special responsibility for decentralisation.
The key to the issue is that decentralisation was presented and promoted as a voluntary transaction and agreement by the people concerned. However, every FÁS employee who seeks a promotional post must first sign a contract to move to Birr, which immediately renders the transfer compulsory. A gun is being placed to the head of every person who feels they can take a step up the ladder.
FÁS is the only State agency using promotional posts to compel people to decentralise. That is the bottom line. It is not the Civil Service; it is a public service agency. The members of FÁS are not civil servants; they are public servants. It is the one agency using the promotional posts mechanism to compel people to transfer to Birr.
The Labour Court intervened in this matter and decided in favour of the FÁS employees. However, the Department of Finance will not allow FÁS to implement the Labour Court recommendations. The only explanation I have for this is that the Minister and Minister of State responsible for decentralisation have Birr in their constituency and, come hell or high water, they are determined to ensure that the people from FÁS transfer there as soon as possible, perhaps before the next general election. This is a disgrace and an insult to many of the public and civil servants who have served the State so well over the years. They must now uproot themselves and their families and live in an area to which they specifically decided they did not want to transfer, at whatever stage in their career they may be.
Decentralisation is good. I am in favour of it. However, enforced decentralisation is anti-democratic. It is more akin to a form of dictatorship if people have a gun to their heads in terms of whether they will decentralise. That is not a voluntary system. This sector of the State agency FÁS is at the core of this compulsory transfer mechanism now being used. Will the Minister for Finance tell the House why, if the Labour Court could come to an agreement and decide in favour of the FÁS employees, he and his Department were not prepared to accept the decision and act accordingly?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am pleased to have this opportunity to update the House on the position regarding the decentralisation of FÁS. Under the Government's decentralisation programme, FÁS is due to move its head office to Birr, County Offaly. FÁS is one of the seven State agencies identified as early movers by the decentralisation implementation group from among the 30 agencies covered by the programme.
It would be helpful to refer to the Labour Court recommendation to which the Deputy refers. In its recommendation in a dispute between SIPTU and FÁS concerning decentralisation and FÁS contracts of employment, the Labour Court considered the written and oral submissions of the parties. The court also noted the terms of the company and union industrial relations procedures agreement and stated it was of the opinion that FÁS was in breach of the consultation procedures provided for in that agreement. However, it made no ruling on the substantive issue of the relocation clause. Instead, it recommended that the matter be referred back to the appropriate central body, at which level the issues should be teased out with a view to arriving at agreed long-term solutions in consultation with all of the parties involved.
Before Easter, discussions between the parties were held on two occasions under the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission, LRC, to see whether progress could be made. Media comment by SIPTU suggested that an initial agreement was reached at the Labour Relations Commission from which the Department of Finance subsequently withdrew. I want to clarify that no agreement was reached at the LRC between the parties at any stage during the discussions. At the first session, a draft text was prepared by the industrial relations officer following a series of discussions with both sides. However, this written text was not seen by the employer side before it was presented to the union.
Differences remain between the parties which must be addressed through further dialogue. It would not be helpful at this point to get into details on the elements of the negotiations. Naturally, I strongly support using all the established consultation and dialogue mechanisms and I hope that further discussions will lead to a resolution.
Decentralisation is a voluntary programme. From the outset, guarantees have been given by the Government that all employees not wishing to transfer out of Dublin will be facilitated with an alternative post in Dublin if the situation arises. Promotions policy must take account of the reality of decentralisation.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Six people are prepared to move.
9:00 pm
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We recognise also that there is a need to address the concerns of people remaining in Dublin.
The Deputy refers to the low take-up rate of staff in FÁS. The data to date indicate that the number of internal applicants is low. However, the Deputy may also be aware that some unions represented in State agencies have effectively opposed the central applications process. This has resulted in a lack of co-operation in the collection of data on the real levels of interest in the decentralisation in those agencies.
I will take the opportunity to update the Deputy generally on progress with the programme. He claims to agree with it. I was a Member of the House when a decentralisation programme was cancelled by a Fine Gael-Labour Government, subsequently resumed by a Fianna Fáil Administration and successfully implemented. Significant progress continues to be made in the implementation of the decentralisation programme. More than 10,600 civil and public servants have made applications through the central applications facility to relocate. The central applications facility continues to receive new applications every week. It is anticipated that interest will increase further as building and timetables firm up.
On the property side, for which the Minister for State has responsibility, site or building acquisition negotiations have been completed in 17 locations. Contracts have been received for an additional six locations. Suitable sites have been identified in a further 15 locations and negotiations to acquire have either commenced or are close to commencement in these locations.
Agreement has been reached on a number of human resource and industrial relations issues in the Civil Service which has enabled progress on the transfer of staff and promotions. Discussions are ongoing in other areas. Actual movement of staff within and between Departments and offices is now under way, with almost 1,400 staff already assigned to posts which will decentralise. All decentralising organisations have produced implementation plans setting out the detailed arrangements they are putting in place to plan for relocation while also ensuring business continuity.
Thirty State agencies are due to decentralise under the most ambitious programme instigated by the State. I am satisfied that good progress has been made in planning for the relocation of these agencies.
The decentralisation implementation group has identified seven agencies, where issues such as the location, mix of staff, business and size of the organisation were favourable, as early movers. In general it has recommended that a more individualised approach be taken to this element of the programme.
I recognise that progress in human resource issues has not been as rapid in the State agencies as in the Civil Service. The Civil Service has had the opportunity to develop an understanding of the decentralisation process over the years from previous and very successful programmes. The experience gained by Civil Service bodies is important in ensuring that the State agency programme can be carried through.
The decentralisation implementation group recognised that proposals for inter-organisational mobility are a new development for State agencies, but it indicated that it is precisely this type of ground-breaking initiative which is needed to give impetus to the implementation of the programme. The process is facilitated by the engagement, through discussion and dialogue, of staff interests. I am happy that issues in dispute in FÁS can be addressed and that its decentralisation programme can remain on track.
Deputy Costello has made certain assertions which have no foundation in truth or fact. They remain assertions. Based on what I have said, I am sure he will take due consideration of the assertions and perhaps retract some of the more outrageous allegations.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Please spell them out for me.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am a former Minister for Labour and I know what industrial relations are about. I have always worked through the machinery. At no time have I sought to influence a scenario which does not respect the legitimate interests of everybody with regard to this matter. I have stated in my speech that it is through dialogue that we will deal with these problems. The assertion made by the Deputy that there is some attempt to change the voluntary nature of the programme is not correct.
I have outlined in my speech the question of State agency employees moving to other activities if they wish to remain in Dublin, which is consistent with the decentralisation programme. It is a new experience and it will require a groundbreaking initiative. We are prepared to work with the concerned interests, including unions, on all these matters.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Will these people have to sign a contract for promotional posts?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The political assertions made by the Deputy are, as usual, without foundation.
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Deputy Connolly has the next item. He has five minutes.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have answered the matter factually.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is either mischievous or ignorant of the facts. I think it is mischievous.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Why do these people have to sign a contract to move to Birr?
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I call Deputy Connolly.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should get his facts right.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The facts are right. I find it hard to see why FÁS is on industrial action if that is the case.