Dáil debates

Wednesday, 26 April 2006

11:00 am

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 10a, motion on membership of committees and No. 11, motion on accident and emergency services.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 10a shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on No. 11 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fine Gael, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes.

Private Members' business shall be No. 28, Electoral Registration Commissioner Bill 2005 — Second Stage, resumed, to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10a without debate agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 11 agreed?

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The knock-on from that because of the potential vote, or maybe two votes at 7 p.m. is that it would eat into the Private Members' time. I should be obliged if the Government would consider amending the order so the business of the Dáil might conclude an hour and a half after that. That appears to be normal practice.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have a question as regards this and I ask the Taoiseach for clarification, if he has to consult the Chief Whip. Many of us are surprised to see a self-congratulatory motion being presented in the middle, not only of a crisis, but indeed a Government-declared national emergency. One wonders——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question as regards the motion? We have not moved on to this motion as yet.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am seeking clarification as regards the spill-on effect of this proposal. Will this curtail the opportunity for other parties in the House to table Private Members' motions addressing the same issue, that is, the crisis in our accident and emergency units? What is the spill-on effect of this Government-tabled motion? Will the Taoiseach please clarify that it does not, in fact, intrude on the opportunities of Opposition parties to table motions addressing this issue, as appropriate, in the months ahead?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the Deputy's second question, that is a procedural matter. Obviously the six-month rule could apply, but that will be decided on in due course, when motions come before the Dáil. If that does not clarify matters the Chair will be pleased to discuss the position with the Deputy in the Ceann Comhairle's office.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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With respect, this is a very important issue.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a procedural matter for the House and will be dealt with as the need arises.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Ceann Comhairle not in a position to clarify the position of the net effect of this Government-tabled proposal as regards the right of Opposition parties to table motions on this matter over the coming months?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not in a position to clarify the issue and if the Deputy wishes to visit the office of the Ceann Comhairle, I should be delighted to discuss it with him. The rules of the House will continue to apply and that matter will be dealt with as it arises.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There clearly is a reason for concern.

12:00 pm

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We tried to work out Deputy Stagg's motion. I wish to say to the Whips that while I have agreed to this a few times, it is very unpopular with Members from all parties. They say to me it upsets things they have arranged to do at 8.30 p.m. In fairness to Members of the House, if we are going to do that, we should have the vote at an earlier stage. The last day I agreed to this on the floor of the House, Members from practically every party came to me afterwards to say it put them out. It is unfair to Members but we will agree it today and work it out. I ask the Whips to arrange to have the vote at an earlier stage if they intend doing this in future so that we will still finish at 8.30 p.m. because people have arranged meetings and are involved in other activities that are affected by being in the House.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I appreciate that.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I can certainly tell at this point that there is no——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the Order of Business I call Deputy Kenny. Is that proposal agreed?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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No. With the difficulties clearly identified——

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Maybe that is a reason why the Government Chief Whip should introduce his proposals on Dáil reform so we can have a real discussion about this.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Before the Deputy commences, is the last proposal by the Taoiseach that we sit late to accommodate the vote agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach was very forthright this morning in his response to questions about the preparedness of the Government and the country in the event of an accident at Sellafield. He spoke about international best practice and high ranking experts being here. In that context can I ask him about No. 72, the criminal justice (suppression of acts of nuclear terrorism) Bill? Given all the activity in which the Government has been involved, it is not possible from the list to indicate when this Bill might even see the light of day. As a country we are prepared and have tested a national plan — at least on paper — so why has this Bill not been given priority given that we should prepare meticulously for such a possible catastrophic event?

The registrar of the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland wrote to the Tánaiste in November 2005 about the appointment of a chief pharmacist. When will the two pharmacy Bills be brought forward? This is a matter of considerable concern. The Taoiseach has the information now anyway. The Bills are listed on the C list with no indication of when they will be brought forward.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have a date for the criminal justice (suppression of acts of nuclear terrorism) Bill. The heads have not been presented. I will raise the issue of what will be the likely timescale for it. The pharmacy (No. 1) Bill to provide for fitness to practice regulations for pharmacists and to remove the restriction on pharmacists educated in other EU countries will come to Cabinet in the coming weeks.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will a chief pharmacist be appointed?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It does.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister will answer questions this afternoon.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach wants to answer that question.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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On that point of Minister's Question Time this afternoon, will the Taoiseach clarify for the House what he meant when he told the House this morning that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform would address the issues I raised about the implications for the criminal prosecution system arising from the collapse of the Dermot Laide case? This morning the Taoiseach clearly disowned a Government spokesperson who clearly said that it was the belief in Government that no further cases would arise. The Taoiseach holds a different view. Will he explain under what stratagem the Minister will come to the House to deal with these questions about when precisely he knew about the infirmity in question and why he has been making proposals off the top of his head and then changing them when coming under pressure from journalists and from questioning in this House?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is in a committee today. I also understand from his office that if a question or matter on the Adjournment were tabled, if the Minister were to get the opportunity, he would be prepared to give a reply on the record of the House.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair would like to point out that no Adjournment matter of this nature is before me at this stage but any such matter that comes before me will be considered in the normal way by the Office of the Ceann Comhairle.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I have printed off a transcript from the system of what the Taoiseach said. He said he understood there was a Dáil question or some way in which the Minister would deal with this in the House today. He said he understood the Minister was well prepared to do that. The import I and other commentators have taken from that is that we will hear the Minister on the divergence of position between him and the Government. We now find there is not any such question.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Rabbitte asked me yesterday if the Minister would make a statement on the matter in the House. The Minister said he is quite prepared to do so but he must find some mechanism to do it. He can only do so if somebody tables a question or raises a matter on the Adjournment. The Minister is quite prepared to put on record his reply on the Dr. Harbison issue but he must find a mechanism to do it. If nobody provides a mechanism for him he cannot do it but he is prepared to do it.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I tabled a Private Notice Question of which the Taoiseach is unaware because I only tabled it since he informed me there was a question. What he actually said this morning is: "I understand there is a Dáil question [and] the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ... would in some way deal with the matter in the House today." To what Dáil question did the Taoiseach refer?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister expected that somebody would raise the issue so he is quite happy to do it. Deputy Rabbitte raised the issue on Leaders' Questions but he asked yesterday——

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Between the Taoiseach and the Minister this is some muddle and it is only getting more muddied.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is no muddle. If I had said this morning the Minister was not prepared to put it on the record of the House, Deputy Rabbitte would say this——

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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No. The Taoiseach sought to give the impression that the matter would be dealt with in the House.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is quite happy to do this.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is the impression the Taoiseach sought to convey.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is my impression.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Where is the question?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Are there no questions tabled to which the Minister can reply?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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What is the Taoiseach asking me for? I am the Opposition.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the Minister has said he is prepared to come to the House if there are questions.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach has a licence none of his predecessors ever had to get away with conveying the impression to this House that he is doing one thing when in fact he is doing or did the opposite. I do not know how he manages it.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the Minister is quite prepared to come to the House today to answer questions, be it in question form or a matter raised on the Adjournment. He is quite prepared to do so but if nobody other than Deputy Rabbitte believes it is that important, then nobody else will have tabled a question. The Minister is prepared to come to the House.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps he will make a statement to the House.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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He is quite happy to answer questions anyway.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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In view of the interest in the matter, if a matter is submitted for the Adjournment, I will allow it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is the Ceann Comhairle giving a licence for one?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not like giving advance notice of what I might do.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about the Private Notice Question?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There may well be questions in my office. I should make it clear that I have not been back to my office since 10.30 a.m. so there may well be questions that I will be dealing with at the end of the Order of Business.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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We have a long list of promised legislation and, as the Taoiseach indicated, we are expecting a general election in 2007. Are all those Bills genuinely promised or is this a pre-election list to encourage re-election on the understanding the Government will process the rest of the Bills? Are there two separate lists or can we take it that they are all promised legislation for this Dáil? It is quite puzzling if the criminal justice (suppression of acts of nuclear terrorism) Bill is not promised for any date. What urgency is being attached to it or is there any substance to it at all?

Will the childcare amendment Bill or the family law Bill legislate for the outlawing of the slapping of children? The Taoiseach must come back to the European Commission on that matter by July. Is any legislation promised on this or is it to be contained in one of those pieces of legislation? Is there more promised legislation which the House has not heard about?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That legislation is listed for this session.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Which legislation?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The child care Bill and legislation dealing with foster care.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Is it the child care Bill?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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In light of the ongoing road deaths, street brawls and anti-social behaviour, will the Taoiseach explain the reason the sale of alcohol Bill has been again put back to late 2006? In light of the scarcity of gardaí on the beat, will the Taoiseach explain the reason there is no time given in this list for the enforcement of fines Bill which was promised?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I would prefer if we did not have a statement along with the questions because we are rapidly running out of time.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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My apologies.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The sale of alcohol Bill is listed for later on this year. The heads of the Bill have already been approved.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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What about the enforcement of fines Bill?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have no date for that Bill.

Photo of Ned O'KeeffeNed O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I have been asked by the relatives of Trooper Patrick Mullins who was killed in the Congo in September 1961 in the Niemba ambush to ask the Government to carry out an investigation into his death as irregularities may have occurred——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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What legislation is the Deputy referring to?

Photo of Ned O'KeeffeNed O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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——and the body has not been found. I ask on compassionate grounds——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another way of raising the matter.

Photo of Ned O'KeeffeNed O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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The Ceann Comhairle is very compassionate and I beg his pardon that he might listen to me.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, the House cannot have one rule for Deputy O'Keeffe and another rule for all the other Members. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Photo of Ned O'KeeffeNed O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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We have inquiries for many issues in this country. I want an inquiry into the death of Trooper Patrick Mullins. His sister is my next door neighbour.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are other ways for the Deputy to raise the matter in the House. Deputy Ó Caoláin has been called.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Government's health strategy published in 2001 set 2002 as the target date for the publication of legislation that would provide for clear statutory provisions on entitlement to health and social services. Yet the last programme of legislation showed the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill scheduled for publication this year.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask a question on legislation as we must move on.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In the new documents circulated this week, it is now put back again to 2007. This was first highlighted in 2002 and has been deferred for five years. What is the explanation for the further deferment of the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Ó Caoláin is always asking me to publish the heads of Bills to allow for more meaningful discussion. The reason for the delay in this case is because we published the heads of the Bill to allow for more meaningful discussion.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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A total of ten oil companies have been convicted of gouging people with respect to home heating. Given the high incidence of energy and oil poverty in the country——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask a question.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach consider giving the Commission for Energy Regulation a role in determining the level of oil prices?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No legislation is promised.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In view of the recent concerns expressed by those in the industry relating to lethargy associated with loop unbundling and market sharing and notwithstanding his reply yesterday morning regarding the electronic communications miscellaneous provisions Bill, will the Taoiseach encourage the Minister to expedite the process for this Bill in order to facilitate the industry?

One or two weeks ago I put down a question each to the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Education and Science and Health and Children relating to children at risk. The three Departments reluctantly and eventually replied, to the effect that progress would be reported in due course. I put down the same question again for answer yesterday because progress——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise. I call the Taoiseach on the first question which was answered yesterday.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This other question does arise.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The electronic communications miscellaneous provisions Bill will be taken this session.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform miraculously opted out without any explanation. This is typical of that Department and it is cynical in the way it treats the House. The Ceann Comhairle needs to protect us in the Opposition because to allow that is to treat the House with contempt.