Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Finance if he will confirm that relocation for public service workers under the decentralisation programme is entirely voluntary, is not linked to promotional prospects and is based on consultation procedures; the mechanisms in place to ensure that this is the case in practice; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12711/06]

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I have stated earlier, both the Government and I have made it clear that participation in the decentralisation programme is voluntary. From the outset guarantees have been provided at Government level that all those employees not wishing to transfer out of Dublin will be facilitated with an alternative public service post in Dublin. This position has not changed.

Progress has been possible in discussions with the Civil Service general service unions on issues relating to transfer protocols, promotions and arrangements for staff remaining in Dublin. Discussions are ongoing on these issues with the unions representing the professional and technical grades in the Civil Service. I hope these and other decentralisation issues arising in the State agency sector can be discussed with the relevant unions with a view to arriving at arrangements that support the decentralisation process while meeting the concerns of staff. In the meantime, practices in decentralising organisations relating to recruitment, promotion etc., must take account of the reality of decentralisation.

Undoubtedly, there are complexities involved in the State agency aspects of the decentralisation programme which do not exist in the Civil Service. The Government and the decentralisation implementation group have always recognised this would be the case. Traditionally there is no experience of decentralisation among State agencies and no tradition of inter-organisational transfer or movement among staff. However, the Government and the DIG remain of the view that these challenges can be addressed through the active engagement of management and unions.

I take it the Deputy's question is in the context of the current dispute in FÁS, which I discussed in response to the first priority question from Deputy Bruton. As I indicated, the Labour Court considered the written and oral submissions of both SIPTU and FÁS. The court also noted the terms of the company-union industrial relations procedures agreement and said it was of the opinion that FÁS was in breach of the consultation procedures provided for in that agreement. However, it made no ruling on the substantive issue of the relocation clause. The court recommended that the matter be referred back to the appropriate central body, at which level the issues should be teased out with a view to arriving at agreed long-term solutions in consultation with all the parties involved.

I restate my support for the use of existing industrial relations procedures and structures by all the parties involved, which represents the best way forward. On this issue, I understand that FÁS has accepted the Labour Court recommendation and is available for talks. I hope SIPTU will agree to participate fully in talks to facilitate an early resolution of this dispute.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister still claims the relocation programme for public service workers is voluntary yet the reality is quite different in practice. Does the Minister accept the situation for employees of State agencies is radically different from that of civil servants? I emphasise that the situation is radically different because there is transferability between Departments for civil servants but those who opt not to relocate can be transferred if necessary to another Department. Does the Minister accept this is not the case for staff of State agencies?

Does the Minister deplore — I have to put it in as strong a term as possible because I see it no differently — the effort to coerce staff at FÁS headquarters to relocate to Birr by linking the move to promotional prospects? A newspaper was cited earlier. The Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, admitted in The Sunday Times last weekend that workers in State agencies, including FÁS, currently cannot be transferred.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should confine himself to asking a question.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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If the move of FÁS headquarters to Birr is to happen, what career and promotional prospects will apply to those members of FÁS who opt to remain in Dublin? That is the key question. FÁS is one of the most decentralised of the State agencies, with arms and representative offices in many provincial towns.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I stated in reply to a previous priority question, we require the active engagement of both sides to resolve any dispute. The Labour Court did not make a substantive finding in regard to the relocation clause. It stated the consultation clause in the procedures agreement was not adhered to sufficiently by management in the context of the terms or spirit of that agreement. FÁS accepts that ruling and is available to proceed with active engagement with the unions.

The decentralisation implementation group stated that, given there has not been a tradition of decentralisation of State agencies to the same extent as is the case with the Civil Service, we need a groundbreaking initiative within the State agency sector to deal with this matter. The best way of doing this is by engaging on the issues, listening to the concerns of staff and dealing with those concerns in the same way the Civil Service decentralisation programme, under successive Administrations, found a means through negotiation of resolving matters such as deciding what proportion of promotions would be located among decentralised posts and Dublin posts. The transfer protocols and the range of precedents in Civil Service decentralisation programmes can be the model on which negotiations can proceed.

We need the active engagement of all concerned. The Labour Court has made its findings, which both sides accept. The labour part of the ruling is to return to discussions. The parties which have accepted the Labour Court ruling should accept it in its entirety, re-enter and actively engage in discussions and find whether we can proceed, as the decentralisation implementation group has indicated, with a groundbreaking initiative for the State agency sector. That is the way forward and the way in which these matters can be resolved.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have a supplementary question.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should be brief. We are running out of time.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What proactive measures have the Minister or the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, employed to bring about an early address of the difficulties, given that we have an indication of industrial action being taken by FÁS staff, with all of the serious associated consequences? What steps have been taken in this regard?

I must also ask the following question. While the Minister and the Minister of State will not be comfortable with it, it is better that it is asked and the Minister's response is on the record. There is an inference that political pressure has been applied to FÁS management——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to give way to the Minister.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am asking the question. He can hardly respond until it is asked.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair generously and foolishly allowed the three Deputies to ask supplementary questions when we were out of time on the relevant questions. I asked for a brief question. I call the Minister to make a final reply.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do not think that either I or the Minister spoke for too long. I rarely do that.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have spent half an hour on three questions. I call the Minister.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Minister if he will respond to a charge that has some currency, namely, that political pressure was applied to FÁS management in regard to the move of its head office to Birr. Will the Minister respond to that question?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The State agency boards understand Government policy and are working to proceed with and implement it, as is the case with Departments of State. The Labour Court suggested that the matter should go back to an appropriate central body but did not specify what body that should be. I believe that my Department, together with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, as the responsible line Department, will have a role to play in any negotiations.

The decentralisation implementation group does not have a role to play in this matter. It is leading the decentralisation programme but is not itself involved in the detailed industrial relations matters arising in the context of decentralisation. These are handled through the existing industrial relations structures in place within Departments. Those are the people who can help work with and join the negotiations in——

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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What is the Minister offering in this creative leap?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister to reply. We have already gone three minutes over time on this question.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Everyone engaging in negotiations will enable us to try to proceed with the matter. We cannot proceed without everyone sitting down around the table. The Deputy will find that when he tries to make coalition arrangements.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will move to Question No. 4.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Has the Minister been deflected or is he ignoring the point with regard to political pressure?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have not ignored the point; I answered it. All State bodies support Government policy. That is the oldest rumour in the book.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Offaly would not be higher in the Minister's mind than any other location.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would never meet the Deputy's high moral standards but I do the best I can.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is not doing badly.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy.