Dáil debates
Tuesday, 28 March 2006
Order of Business.
4:00 pm
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 10, Criminal Justice Bill 2004 — motion to instruct the committee. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m. The proceedings of No. 10 shall, if not previously concluded, adjourn at 10.30 p.m. and shall resume on the conclusion of the statements on the European Council Brussels summit tomorrow and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. on that night and the following arrangements shall apply: the speech of a Minister or a Minister of State or the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party, the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case and the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case and Members may share time. A Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes. Private Members' business shall be No. 30, Road Traffic (Mobile Telephony) Bill 2006 — Second Stage. The proceedings on Second Stage thereon, shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 29 March 2006. Parliamentary questions scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday 29 March 2006, on the EU Council meeting in Brussels shall not be disallowed as being anticipatory of the statements on such Council meeting scheduled to be taken on that day, and shall be moved to be taken first as ordinary oral questions to the Taoiseach on that day.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are four proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10, motion re Criminal Justice Bill 2004, instruction to committee, agreed?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is an instruction to the committee. My party called for the Dáil to be recalled before St. Patrick's Day with a view to bringing this Bill back to the House as early as possible. I do not object to this method of dealing with it, nor do I object to it being concluded at 10.30 p.m. tomorrow. However, the range of amendments brought in by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is very extensive. I give the Taoiseach notice that we will not tolerate any attempt to guillotine Committee Stage of the Bill because of its importance.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I essentially agree with Deputy Kenny. We ought to record that this is becoming the hallmark of the style of legislation of the Minister, Deputy McDowell. He brings in a batch of amendments that is six times longer than the original Bill——
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——and provides as little time as possible for sight of the amendments and for preparation so that the original Bill is not recognisable. That would be all right, given the state we are in, if it were a once-off. However, he has done this on several previous occasions. It is disrespectful to the House and unfair to Members on this side of the House.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The basic point which has been made but needs to be reiterated is that the additions to the Bill make a mockery of the original Second Stage debate. We do not have enough time available to us to get to grips with the Minister's motivation for effectively upturning the original Bill and presenting a whole new animal. I ask that the Government would allow additional time so the Opposition might engage more constructively, as we want to do given the importance of this issue.
5:00 pm
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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One must welcome what amounts to a tacit acceptance on the part of Government that the methodology or approach of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is anti-democratic and unacceptable in terms of legislation. This is not the first example of the approach he has employed, which has resulted in more than 200 amendments across substantive legislation that has only 38 sections.
A situation arises whereby what is proposed does not amount to a recommital. I am not sure whether there are precedents for the methodology employed in terms of a revisitation by motion of the Second Stage content of the now to be amended legislation. It should have been recommitted. Substantially more time should have been provided, not only for Members in this House but for the many interested and concerned parties in civic society who are also concerned and taking time to consider what the Minister now proposes.
The Human Rights Commission is among those parties which have been in contact with the Minister's office to reflect that they find the process most unsatisfactory. It does not allow time inside or outside the House for external or internal appraisal of what is involved. There was less than 24 hours from the provision of an explanation on the new sections by the Minister's Department to the various spokespersons receiving the detail last evening, which leaves inadequate time to prepare. I hope the Taoiseach will take on board this point. There is tacit acceptance that the Minister's approach is not appropriate and needs to be revisited. I hope we will never see a repetition of this approach in future legislation and that the lesson is well learned.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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This system will effectively allow a Second Stage debate on the issues. I note what Members have said about the volume of amendments on Committee Stage.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the question agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Parliamentary Questions tomorrow agreed?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome that No. 4 has been included as it is. Occasionally we can offer kudos.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The proposal on No. 4 is agreed. On the Order of Business, I call Deputy Kenny.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In his response to Taoiseach's Questions today, the Taoiseach rightly stated that reports that came before the Government would be published as speedily as possible. In that context, has the Minister for Education and Science told the Taoiseach when the Harris report will be published, given that she has had the report in her possession at the Department for a number of months? The report deals with the decline in competency in spoken Irish in primary schools.
When can we expect the safety analysis report on the Corrib gas field to be published by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources? Following my question last week to the Government, when does the Taoiseach expect to receive the report on the shooting of John Carthy at Abbeylara?
Is the Taoiseach concerned about the decrease in the level of exports from this country last year, which resulted in the lowest growth in 20 years at 1.3%? In that context, when can we expect to see the control of exports Bill? I am sure the Government is concerned about the balance of payments deficit referred to by Davy Stockbrokers in its economic report. If this situation continues, there could be serious trouble ahead.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Questions on reports before the House are not in order on the Order of Business. The Deputy's last question is in order but the first three are not.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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First, the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, has——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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As leader of his party, I have on occasion allowed the Deputy to ask questions but it cannot become the norm to ask about every conceivable report.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There were specific debates in the House on the report.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I accept that.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister gave a tentative date as to when he might publish it. The report concerns safety, natural gas and energy supply. Second, the Minister for Education and Science is in possession of the Harris report. I am sure she will publish it and I would like to know when.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It might be better to submit a question to the Minister.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Third, as you know, a Cheann Comhairle——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Under Standing Order 26, it is not in order to rhyme off a list of reports on the Order of Business.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If I understand the ruling of the Ceann Comhairle, he will allow me to answer on this occasion.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have a date for publication of the Harris report but the Minister for Education and Science will publish it with her response to the report. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources hopes to deal with the Corrib gas report shortly. I raised the matter of the Deputy's interest with the Minister last week. He was not able to give me a date but he hopes to be able to do so. I do not have an update on the Abbeylara report.
The control of exports Bill will update our export control legislation in the area of strategic export controls in the context of the recommendations of the recently published review of Ireland's export control system. The heads of the Bill are being worked on but are not yet ready, so I do not have a date for its publication.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Has the Government set its face against using the opportunity of the census to refurbish the electoral register? If so, has the Government other proposals, will such proposals involve legislation and when we will we hear about them?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As I understand it, the Central Statistics Office does not believe this is a suitable way of dealing with the matter. It is concerned about its work on the census and about operating that system. The Minister of State raised this issue with the CSO and I relayed my views on its possibility but it does not seem possible. The census will take place soon on 23 April. Other options are being considered by the Minister, Deputy Roche.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Does the Government intend to allow the issue of Aer Lingus to be debated? The Aer Lingus Bill went through these Houses. Is it possible to bring that legislation——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no debate promised on this matter. This is a matter for the Whips. I call Deputy Olivia Mitchell.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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This matter is important. All the issues including investment, pensions, pay, profit sharing and security of the company need to be brought back before the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on this matter now. I call Deputy Olivia Mitchell.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It relates to a serious matter that is relevant to the Order of Business and is worthy of debate——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a matter for the Whips, Deputy.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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——not least in terms of a cost benefit analysis. Following the week of the recess over the St. Patrick's festival, will the Taoiseach or any of the Ministers provide a report, either by way of statements in the House or placing information in the Oireachtas Library, of what was achieved following the large sum of taxpayers' money expended on the effort?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This matter does not arise on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Olivia Mitchell.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I wonder about that. Apparently, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government did not attend the parade in Tokyo. What was he doing?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to submit a question in the appropriate way.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I have already done that, but I want to know if statements on that matter will be made in the House.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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In view of the fact that the large increase in carbon emissions here are attributable almost exclusively to the increase in road transport, given that the Minister for Transport has consistently said that he will not provide for the allocation of additional buses to Dublin Bus——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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——or liberalise that market to allow others to provide buses until such time as he has the review of Dublin Bus, and given that he has that review for the past two weeks——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy O'Sullivan.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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——has a definite date been set for the introduction of the public transport commission Bill?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation is promised in this area but I do not have a date as to when it will be ready.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Can the Taoiseach not even say in what year it will be ready?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach take the opportunity to inform the House that the State will waive its right to costs against Louise O'Keeffe in relation to the case——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest the Deputy submits a question on that matter to the line Minister. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I raise this matter in the context of the register of persons who are considered unsafe to work with children Bill.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach on the legislation.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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This woman was abused in a national school and faces a legal bill of €500,000. Is there any movement on the introduction of that Bill which has been languishing on the list since the Taoiseach took office?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach to reply on the promised legislation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On which legislation?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The register of persons who are considered unsafe to work with children Bill.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation is being prepared in this area. On the other issue raised, which is receiving considerable publicity — this is turning into Question Time——
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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We cannot hear the Taoiseach.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy listened, she might. The State Claims Agency will deal with this matter in a sympathetic manner.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The Government should not hide behind the State Claims Agency in this case. This woman needs to be told she will not have to——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have called Deputy Ó Caoláin.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Given the incredible situation revealed by the Irish Haemophilia Society that the Government has not only prevaricated but has as good as refused to pursue the pharmaceutical companies which provided infected blood products——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do indeed. Given that the Government has refused to pursue the pharmaceutical companies that provided infected blood products to people in need in this jurisdiction, including many who have died, when will the hepatitis C and HIV compensation tribunal amendment Bill come before the Dáil in order that we can properly address this most vexatious matter in this Chamber?
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two issues. The eligibility for health and personal social services Bill will clarify how means tests are calculated, and it is very important that it comes before this House as quickly as possible. In light of the difficulty regarding oil and gas supplies, when will the minerals development Bill come before this House in order that we can discuss the possible gas or mineral finds in west Cavan?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The eligibility for health and personal social services Bill, which is to update the current provisions relating to the health and personal social services, is due to be introduced later this year. The minerals development Bill is also listed for 2006.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Minister for Education and Science announced a review of the 1998 Education Act in regard to the task force on student behaviour. In Dublin West some 200 children will have no primary school place in junior infants in September.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy a question on promised legislation?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will the Minister review the Education Act to allow the Department of Education and Science to inform schools directly——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Timmins.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Minister is willing to answer. This matter is important to 400 parents whose children——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the Minister. There are any number of ways she can raise the matter.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——in this tiger economy have no primary school place.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Timmins.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is willing to answer.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a question for an Adjournment matter or there are many other ways the Deputy can raise this matter.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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This is a matter of major importance. It relates to a review of the Education Act that the Minister has already publicly promised.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the issue is not part of the Education Act.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, made several announcements about the establishment of a humanitarian corps under the remit of the Department of Foreign Affairs. I do not see any reference to it on the list of promised legislation. Does the Taoiseach agree that it would be more suitable for such a body to be under the control of the Minister for Defence, in which context he might seek a role for the involvement of the Naval Service in humanitarian affairs?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is nothing listed in this respect. It might help if the Deputy tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister made an announcement on it. I would like the Taoiseach to consider passing the task over to the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea, to whom it would be more suitable to assign responsibility for it.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On promised legislation, now that the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources has finally published the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, will the Taoiseach indicate when it will be on Second Stage in the House? Given the sad situation with regard to the distribution of broadband throughout the country, when will the electronic communications (miscellaneous provisions) Bill be brought before the House to ensure we can have a concentrated debate on it?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in these areas?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Legislation is promised on these two matters. Before any more post offices and sub-post offices are closed, would it be possible to reintroduce the Postal (Miscellaneous Services) Bill, which was taken off the Order Paper six or seven months ago? If some action is not taken soon in this area, no post offices will remain open.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The post office legislation is off the list and there is no proposal to restore it. The Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill has been published and is listed for Order for Second Stage. The electronic communications miscellaneous provisions Bill is due later this year.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That does not say much for the poor post offices.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I want to ask the Taoiseach about the Water Services Bill 2003 which passed Second Stage in this House more than a year ago, which has been with the select committee since then but the Committee Stage of which the Government has not moved.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for the committee.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I ask the question because I would like to know the Government's plans for the enactment of that Bill and if the Taoiseach will assure to the House that the Government, having delayed progressing it through the committee, will not attempt to impose a guillotine in the committee or in the House——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a matter for the committee.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There are very controversial provisions in this Bill——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the line Minster responsible. I call Deputy McManus.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——and I am concerned as to the reason the Government does not appear to wish to progress it.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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This matter was raised a week or two ago. I checked the position and I understand the amendments are or will soon be ready for the Bill to go to committee.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Taoiseach asks us to listen to him but I did not hear him reply to Deputy Ó Caoláin's question about the hepatitis C and HIV compensation tribunal amendment Bill.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will be ready this session.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Regarding the medical practitioners Bill, there is much concern arising out of the Neary scandal. I understand the heads of the Bill must be amended. Will the Taoiseach inform the House when the heads of the Bill will go to Cabinet and will they be published? When does he expect the medical practitioners Bill to be introduced? Will it be this year?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that because of the ongoing work in the Department, this Bill is a priority and that it will be ready this year.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I asked three questions, two of which were when the heads of the Bill will go to Cabinet and when they will be published.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The heads of the Bill have already been approved but there may be additional heads. The heads of the Bill were approved previously.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Last week the Taoiseach said that the heads had to be brought to Cabinet and that there were amendments that he would bring to Cabinet.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will repeat what I said last week and the week before that. In respect of the medical practitioners Bill, the heads of it had been agreed previously. In regard to the Neary report, the heads of that could not have been previously agreed because the report was only published a few weeks ago. The chairperson of that inquiry has taken on the task of doing further work. That will obviously provide new heads and those heads also must be cleared. The legislation will be published this year.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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When will these heads come forward?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on it.