Dáil debates

Wednesday, 22 February 2006

10:30 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sure everyone in the House is concerned about the announcement yesterday of the loss of 350 jobs in the NEC plant in Ballivor, County Meath. Every politician is concerned about the impact this will have on the families and workers involved as the plant has been in operation for more than 30 years. It follows the announcement in the past month or so of job losses in Saehan Media, Magee, Platter Foods in Sligo and others.

While no one decries the strength of the Irish economy, credit for which goes to the workers, and everyone can share in that credit, there are fragilities and strains in the economy that the Government should be taking seriously. For instance, the CSO's quarterly national household survey indicated that the number of Irish people working in Irish industry fell by almost 13,000 in 2005, which is approximately 1,000 job losses a month. While the survey showed an increase in employment, it also showed that the manufacturing sector is losing jobs at an alarming rate. It is further evidence of the increasing costs Irish businesses must face to be able to compete. As the Taoiseach has pointed out, a small open economy must be able to compete, to which cost base is crucial. Traditional businesses are now suffering because the Government has failed to tackle the high cost of doing business here. This is having a detrimental effect on our previous attractiveness as a location for foreign direct investment. This is being compounded by intense competition from overseas.

The inflation rate for basic utilities and energy is running at almost twice the rate of that in the euro zone. Broadband penetration is seriously lacking. The competitiveness council report indicates that we are rated 14 out of 15 in this regard. Energy infrastructure shows us running at 14 out of 16 and port infrastructure shows us running at 13 out of 16. Is the Taoiseach concerned that the continuing decline in the manufacturing sector threatens seriously the prosperity of the country? Given the fragility in the economy, to which Deputy Bruton has referred on many occasions, does the Taoiseach agree that between a strong consumer spend and a thriving construction sector there are fragilities which are caused mainly by our cost base and our serious decline in competitiveness, and any fall-off in either the consumer spend or the construction industry would have a damaging effect on the economy? What action does the Government propose to take in the area of our cost base and in advancing our case for competitiveness where we have slipped on a world scale from fourth to 26th? Is this a cause for serious concern to the Government and what is its reaction to the continuing trend of 1,000 job losses a month in the manufacturing sector?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to express my sympathy to the staff of NEC in Ballivor, who have been good and committed workers for three decades and have been working to the best of their ability. This announcement has been a real shock to them.

The manufacturing sector represents 23% of total employment while the services sector accounts for 62%, including 31% of exports and more than 50% of our total GDP. Last year, we created 95,000 jobs and, as has been the case for a number of years, we continued to get the lion's share of foreign direct investment from the United States into Europe. The reality is that our strength is now in the high-tech areas, including in the pharmaceutical, chemical and electronic industries. While there is severe competition both for investment and jobs, it is in these industries we do best. It is true that we have continued to suffer job losses over a number of years in some sectors of the manufacturing industry. As has been pointed out in report after report, the only way we can protect ourselves is by developing our research and development and innovation and providing higher quality and higher skilled jobs so we move up the value chain. As is already the case, higher salaries and lower company and personal taxes create a competitive environment. As Deputy Kenny said, the intensification of competition from low cost locations has exposed a sharp rise in the cost base here. The average cost of Irish goods and services has increased by approximately 20% relative to our trading partners. The increase in the value of the euro and faster growth in domestic prices and wages has played a major part in this development. We must continue to be conscious of this development.

As the House is aware, in order to tackle development, we introduced the One-Step Up initiative, the Outreach initiative, programmes run by FÁS and the programmes run by Enterprise Ireland. The national training fund has been allocated €353 million this year. These initiatives are active in the economy each day to protect existing jobs, help people who have been relocated and to try to protect ourselves from difficulties in the future. I do not believe we can ever be complacent about our competitive position. Maintaining our attractiveness as a competitive and profitable location in which to do business is a key priority. As we undergo fundamental change, we can no longer compete as a low cost location for basic manufacturing investment. We will not be able to compete in that environment because we are no longer a low cost economy. Quite frankly, we are not trying to compete at that level. Our workforce and the people do not want us to compete at that level. However, it means companies at that level must be helped to be more innovative, otherwise they will not survive.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The local Minister said yesterday that indigenous industry should be supported. This was not the case when many of the smaller traditional industries in County Meath went to the wall. Our export performance last year was the worst since 1974. Some 33,400 manufacturing jobs were lost in the last four years but the public sector has increased by 73,800. The cost comparative figures for Irish manufacturing industry as against Britain indicate the cost of electricity is 50% higher here, insurance is 20% higher, landfill costs are 350% higher and broadband is 10% higher. This places our manufacturing industry in a hugely uncompetitive position. These, however, are areas in which the Government has direct influence on the cost base. In the year from 2003 to 2004, for example, the cost of waste collection increased by 31%, water charges by 20%, local authority rates by 18%, energy by 18% and post by 13%. The Government has used the manufacturing sector as a silent tax collection system but this squeeze cannot continue.

The Government will consider the immediate establishment of task forces and so on. In a broader sense, however, its failure to deal with the competitiveness and cost base issues for the manufacturing industry places us at a severe disadvantage against competitors from other locations. One action the Taoiseach might take is to make a simple demand that the cost of no State-supplied service should increase by more than the rate of inflation in the next three years. This would provide some sense of stability for those planning their future here and those making a decision on whether to invest here.

As a serious factor for continued development of our economy, the Government should look seriously at the cost base pressures on the manufacturing sector. We have fallen behind completely in terms of research and development. Exports from Irish-owned firms have remained almost stagnant. In research and development, we are at less than a quarter of the OECD average. We are way behind in the areas which support development, including infrastructure, roads, broadband and energy. It is becoming increasingly difficult for people to make decisions to come here and for those who are here to compete internationally.

Given everybody's understanding of the strength of the economy, will the Taoiseach confirm what actions the Government proposes to take about the fragilities that clearly exist and the pressures upon the cost base applying to the manufacturing sector?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I know the workers at NEC were shocked at the news of the plant's closure and that they have provided a loyal and quality service to the company over the years. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, the agencies operating under his remit and Meath County Council will take every step to secure alternative employment for the workers and to replace investment in the area.

Before we lose the run of ourselves, however, we should note that the economy employs 2 million people and we have created 500,000 jobs in the last several years. In terms of foreign direct investment, we got the greatest number of the jobs available from the United States in recent years. For example, we have 20% of the share in unwrapped software and 40% of the share in wrapped software. Exports last year were €85 billion, one of the highest figures in the OECD.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about the trends?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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From an enormously high level, the figures stabilised in recent months and have taken off again in the last quarter. For a country with a population of 4 million and a workforce of 2 million, it is an enormous achievement to have exports of €85 billion.

Of the new jobs announced recently, such as the 600 in Google, the 1,100 in Amgen, those in Wyeth, Centocor and Intel, and others in internationally traded services, a significant number are manufacturing jobs. When one thinks of manufacturing jobs there is a tendency to imagine people working with components or screws. We are talking about manufacturing jobs at a sophisticated level. Pressures in the economy arise in those areas where low-cost companies can enter and compete. NEC has two top-class plants, one in Malaysia and the other in Singapore. The company believes it can take the semi-conductor capacity from the Ballivor plant and move that production to the Singapore plant. This fits in with its operational business. In many cases, we attract foreign direct investment here because of our low tax base in terms both of profits and workers.

There are always issues in regard to competitiveness. I repeat what I have said many times; we must ensure wage movements are realistic so labour costs do not become prohibitive. We must also ensure productivity increases are at least in line with wage increases so competitiveness in terms of unit labour costs is maintained. OECD and EU figures indicate Irish salaries are high. Productivity must match those salary pressures and innovation is required so we move into new higher value products. The vast majority of our companies have been doing well in this regard.

We must ensure workers and managers are trained in the skills necessary to adapt to new technologies and procedures and that employment practices are sufficiently flexible to bring those skills quickly into the market. We must also ensure manufacturers have access to technology and research and development. There was no budget for research and development five or six years ago but we now spend a significant amount in this area to facilitate innovation. This will continue to be the case.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is the Taoiseach satisfied about competition in the financial sector? I refer specifically to the announcement this morning by Allied Irish Banks of a profit of €1.7 billion for the year. Is the Taoiseach aware this is up from €1.37 billion last year? Does he also know this is the highest rate of profitability in Europe? Is he aware that, for example, the two major Irish banks take three times more in profit per customer than the average bank in Europe?

It is obvious some of this is excessive profit-taking in the Irish economy. There is a lack of competition. It is good to see the banks profitable but any reasonable person would say that a profit of €1.7 billion is completely out of kilter with the financial sectors in other countries in Europe. The Government's reaction has been to scrap the €100 million levy that was taken from the banks for the last three years. This was done in the budget by sleight of hand. There was no mention of it; it was merely terminated at the caprice of the Minister. Do we remember the former Minister for Finance, Mr. Charlie McCreevy?

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Charlie; I knew him well.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He said of the banks when he implemented the levy: "It is not unreasonable to see some of their good fortune applied to assisting the public finances". It was the former Minister's view that the banks could afford to make a contribution to the public finances.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Where is he now?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Government has terminated this levy which at least contributed €100 million to the Exchequer, an amount not to be sneezed at. There was then some vague talk about the banks, out of the goodness of their hearts, making a contribution in social finance terms. We know nothing about this social finance fund and no definitive figure has been put on it. We do not know whether it is a per annum contribution, the purposes to which it would be put, who would administer it, or whether it is forthcoming. Does the Taoiseach intend to revisit the levy in the light of this excessive profit-taking in the Irish economy? Will he tell us how much will be contributed in terms of social finance?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad Allied Irish Banks is profitable. It is so because growth in the economy is so strong——

Photo of Paul GogartyPaul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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It is screwing the public.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——and our businesses are so strong.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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And the Government is so weak.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Investment is very strong——

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government had to bail them out before.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——such that our financial services are doing well.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to continue. This is the Labour Party's question.

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know that, but we had to bail out the banks previously and the Dáil was called back to do so.

Deputies:

Did the Deputy see the "Prime Time" programme last night?

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We had to pay them back €100 million because they needed it.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That was in the mid-1980s when the Deputy's party was in power.

Deputies:

The Taoiseach's party never came to the west.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It almost went down and I remember having to be convinced by the then leader of our party that it was a wise thing to do——

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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To save the banks.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——to invest money——

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They should all be sacked——

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——and not to let the bank go down.

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——and all in debt.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind the Deputy and the House that this is a Labour Party question and that Deputy Rabbitte is entitled to exactly the same courtesy that was afforded Deputy Kenny when he was allowed hear the answer to his question.

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Remember the PMPA.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was resisting the calls from the Fine Gael Party to nationalise the banks.

Photo of Johnny BradyJohnny Brady (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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It wants to close everything down.

Photo of Bernard AllenBernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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No, only the link with the banks.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In reply to Deputy Rabbitte's question, AIB is a global company. Its profit is sizeable and it is making considerable money. The Government would like to see more competition. The Bank of Scotland has come into the market and is taking a good share of it and I hope more such companies will enter the market. The Government has been supportive of An Post becoming involved in the financial area and thereby, on a community basis, helping customers in that area.

As the Deputy will be aware and I restate this point, there was a solemn agreement, which Governments are honoured to keep, that the bank levy would run for a period of three years and would then cease. That was the commitment made and the Government honoured it.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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When?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister concerned announced that he would set up a new social fund in respect of which he expected——

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That is not contained in the Finance Bill.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am trying to answer the Deputy's leader. As I said, the Minister expected the financial institutions to contribute sizeable sums of money.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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For football jerseys.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the main banks have already given commitments to put sizeable amounts of money into this fund.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Why is that not reflected in the Finance Bill?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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A Cheann Comhairle, I am trying to answer Deputy Rabbitte's question.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Burton to have the courtesy to allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The main banks have offered to put sizeable amounts of money into this fund. The money will be used in projects to help the less well-off in our society——

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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They will tax those people.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will be used to fund projects that will help to generate activities in areas that are socially excluded. This is a good initiative.

It is a pity that at one level we are concerned about a company leaving the country because of the level of competition and the next question asked is about a company that is profitable and Members want to talk it down. We should make up minds and be consistent where we stand.

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They have robbed their customers for years.

Photo of Dinny McGinleyDinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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They have fleeced the ordinary person.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Rabbitte to continue without interruption.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It is not worthy of the Taoiseach to engage in silly banter about anybody complaining about the banks being profitable. That is not the issue, and he knows well it is not. The issue is that hundreds of thousands of ordinary bank customers are being milked to contribute to excessive profits.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is the issue. The Taoiseach did not say what he will do about the levy. He stopped the levy which was at least extracting €100 million. He did not say what the social finance fund means, apart from some general charitable reference that there will be a sizeable amount of money put into it out of the charity of the banks' hearts. This is a wider economic issue and the Taoiseach knows that very well. There is no point playing it for cheap headlines.

Photo of Michael AhernMichael Ahern (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has a PhD in that.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should be careful.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Rabbitte to continue without interruption.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I am interested that the motley crew of second tier Ministers, who have so distinguished themselves, think that it is a laughing matter that Irish bank customers are being ripped off. I find it very interesting that Fianna Fáil regards it as a matter of amusement.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The point I want to put to the Taoiseach is that the last report of the Central Bank——

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Conor, they are not listening to you. You should not be looking up at them. Will you stay quiet for a moment?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should concentrate.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The last quarterly report of the Central Bank expressed its concern about the fact that personal credit has expanded by 25% per annum since the last quarter of 2003. Specifically the Central Bank said that a situation where debt is increasing at a rate that is more than three times that of income is unsustainable. That is the Central Bank's view. What is the Government response to the Central Bank? Is it happy to see the rate of debt increasing at three times that of income? Is it happy to see personal credit expanding at 25% per annum?

Is the Government happy to see a situation, for example, that I heard in one of my clinics on Saturday? A father came to see me about his 19 year old apprentice carpenter son who was given a loan for €8,000 from a particular bank, not a branch of Allied Irish Banks. The son went back to the bank seeking another €4,000, but the bank said it could not top up his loan by €4,000. However, it withdrew the loan and gave him a new loan for €20,000. This was given to a 19 year old and there was no concept of the responsibility of that or what it meant.

We could only have a 25% rate of expansion in personal credit by irresponsible lending on which the Central Bank has rung the alarm bells on a number of occasions. This is a serious question. What is the Government's response to the Cental Bank's warning?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am certainly not trying to be smart about any of these issues, but I make the point that Allied Irish Banks is a very good Irish company. The threat over the past ten to 15 years was that our two main banks could be taken over internationally. That was a real fear for several years during the past ten to 15 years, namely, that they would not have the critical mass in the international financial environment to be able to maintain their positions. I get a sense of satisfaction from seeing Allied Irish Banks or any Irish company making half of its profits on the international market. I am subject to correction but traditionally that was the position. One of our companies is able to compete in that market.

Equally, I agree that the more competition, whether from An Post, the credit unions of which most people are members, the Bank of Scotland or any of the other financial services, the better it is for the customer. The Government, through legislation and in any other way it can, promotes such competition. Banks, therefore, must be fair to their customers while monitoring their profitability and securing the best deals for people.

Deputy Rabbitte asked me a question about the Central Bank's report. As domestic demand has been strong in this country, people have borrowed. In every single examination that has been done on this, it has been found that people have not borrowed excessively. The credit unions have vast amounts of money and they would be glad to facilitate borrowing. The position is equally similar in the banks for the very reason the Deputy mentioned. I am aware that if one goes to the bank to cash a cheque, one may end up being offered a car loan. I do not agree with that, but the fact is that the banks have resources and they at all times target their customers to take out loans.

The saving ratios in the country are higher than they have been at any time in the past 25 years because of initiatives of this Government. There are companies in the International Financial Services Centre making vast amounts of wealth and which would not employ a handful of the people employed by Allied Irish Banks. That said, I am also glad they make those sums because the International Financial Services Centre is a good resource for the State.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Carte blanche is being given to the speculators.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If they were not in this country they would be somewhere else. They employ people here. In the past all our young graduates had to emigrate to London, Luxembourg and America, but now they are employed here. Let us put a stop to the begrudging attitude. I agree with Deputy Rabbitte's core point, that the more competition we get to help people, the better.

I am not overly concerned that our borrowing ratio is out of line, based on the high saving ratios and the high reserves in the banks, credit unions and other financial institutions.

11:00 am

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach is aware that every day commuters, parents, children, carers, all members of our society, are affected by a legacy of bad planning. We have greater car dependency than any other country one cares to mention, greater congestion costing business billions of euro, and lack of local amenities on new housing estates. The dispersed low density sprawl is a legacy of bad planning. Does the Taoiseach accept that much of that legacy is connected with a history of Fianna Fáil corruption and abuse of power, especially on Dublin City Council?

The Taoiseach suspected some of this and set up an inquiry into allegations of corruption in Fianna Fáil. Following the newspaper reports this morning, how will the Taoiseach explain the chronic amnesia from which his lieutenants, Deputy Wright and Senator Lydon, suffer? Is there something wrong with the water in Fianna Fáil offices or is it a case, as many suspect, that Fianna Fáil is a haven for aspiring wide boys?

Before the Taoiseach sets up another inquiry will he tell us what he plans to do with the revelations about Deputy Wright and Senator Lydon?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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These matters are before a tribunal and in accordance with Standing Order 56 it is not appropriate to run a parallel tribunal in here.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I would not do that. I am asking the Taoiseach about his own inquiry to which Deputy Wright and Senator Lydon told untruths. Senator Lydon kept the Taoiseach in the dark about a €7,000 donation——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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These matters are before a tribunal and I ask the Deputy——

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I absolutely understand that.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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It is an internal Fianna Fáil inquiry.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Deputy Wright kept the Taoiseach in the dark about a €5,000 donation and another of €500 in 1997.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Standing Order 56 does not allow discussion of matters before the tribunal.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I am asking the Taoiseach what does he condone. That is my job here: to question the Taoiseach. I will not refer, as the Ceann Comhairle did, to a tribunal. I am simply asking the Taoiseach what he condones. Does he condone bribery, corruption and bad planning? Does he have a policy on telling untruths to a party inquiry and will he ask these two Members to step aside or does he have any standards worth talking about at all? That is a valid question for the Taoiseach. We are talking about his party and his members who lied to him.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not a practice of the House to——

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I never condemn wrongdoing in any area.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach never condemns wrongdoing.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach will meet himself coming back.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Condone. I never condone wrongdoing. We set up the Moriarty tribunal to inquire into payments to politicians.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The House set up the tribunal.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We set up the Mahon tribunal to inquire into irregularities in the planning process, and many other inquiries, to get to the bottom of any wrongdoing going on anywhere, including in Dublin County Council. That is the position of the Government and of my party, as Deputy Sargent knows very well.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I am asking about the Taoiseach's inquiry.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will fill Deputy Sargent in on my inquiry when he fills me in on his inquiry into chemical shares.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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That is fair enough. The Taoiseach can tell me about it.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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What does the Taoiseach need to know?

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I would like to take the Taoiseach up on his offer to tell me about his inquiry.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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The fox in the hen house.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Is it credible for the Taoiseach to have a Deputy who has no recollection of receiving, cashing or having in his account a cheque for €5,000? Is it credible for the Taoiseach to accept that a Senator can take €7,000 from a property owner benefiting from a major rezoning cash windfall?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Once again, I point out that these are matters before a tribunal.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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It is an internal Fianna Fáil inquiry.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The internal inquiry conducted by Fianna Fáil is not before the tribunal.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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These matters are before a tribunal.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I do not want things to fall between stools. I want to make sure that Fianna Fáil answers for what is within the Dáil remit and for which Fianna Fáil has taken responsibility.

We are talking about a Senator who, with other Fianna Fáil, and some Fine Gael, councillors, was apoplectic when I asked a basic question in 1993 as to whether any councillor on Dublin City Council received a cheque. He was so apoplectic that he held me in a headlock and went to grab a £100 cheque sent to the Green Party.

Is that acceptable behaviour within the Taoiseach's party? Is he going to do anything about it? Will he expel these members or sever his links with white collar crime? What must one do to be thrown out of the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party? Maybe the Taoiseach can answer that.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am certainly sorry if one of my party members caught Deputy Sargent in a headlock in 1993. Had I been there I would have stopped him.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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It was Giant Haystacks.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach was too busy signing blank cheques at the time.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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This is a serious issue.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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This Government totally condemns any kind of wrongdoing.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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What is the Taoiseach going to do about those guys?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have dealt with these matters in the appropriate way by setting up an inquiry.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach will do nothing.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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This is not funny.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Corruption is not funny.