Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Agriculture and Food the discussions she has had with the EU Commission and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government regarding a derogation under the nitrates directive; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [5640/06]

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The implementation of the nitrates directive is a matter in the first instance for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The Minister has recently made regulations giving legal effect to Ireland's national action programme under the directive.

The fact the Minister made the regulations enabled Ireland to begin the formal process of seeking approval for a derogation designed to allow certain farmers to operate, under appropriate conditions and controls, up to a level of 250 kilograms of organic nitrogen per hectare per annum. The Department of Agriculture and Food is taking the lead in this matter and, with the support of Teagasc, will continue to work with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government towards achieving a successful outcome.

The process commenced formally at a meeting of the EU nitrates committee in December, when an outline of Ireland's proposal was presented. Detailed discussions between officials of the Departments of Agriculture and Food and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the European Commission took place subsequently. Following these discussions, a detailed scientific argument in support of the proposal was finalised and has been submitted to the Commission.

The proposal will be discussed again at future meetings of the nitrates committee before approval can be obtained. Securing this derogation is vital for the most productive dairy farmers in particular, and it is important the position on the regulations is clarified at an early date so the negotiations on the derogation can proceed.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Has the European Commission's consideration of the derogation been suspended and, if so, on what grounds? Is the Commission satisfied with the scientific evidence Ireland has provided, given that the evidence we provided during discussion of the nitrates directive was, it seems, wholly inadequate? As the Minister will be aware, Teagasc has indicated it is prepared to review nitrogen levels. Has the Minister asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to request Teagasc to review the nitrogen tables in the directive with a view to facilitating discussions taking place on the derogation?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the derogation, a meeting of the nitrates committee will be held in March. It is unlikely, however, that discussions on a derogation for Ireland will take place on the basis that current discussions on the suspended Part 3 have not concluded. On the scientific evidence provided, Teagasc provides this evidence to my Department and, in particular, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The scientific evidence was submitted on the basis that discussions and negotiations were taking place with the Commission. Some of this evidence was accepted by the Commission and some was not.

I wrote to the chairman of Teagasc several weeks ago requesting that his organisation make available the additional scientific evidence on phosphates which had been brought to my attention. This has appeared in draft form and will be discussed by the Teagasc board on 20 February. I am led to believe the evidence will also cover other issues and these will also be considered, albeit in the context of my specific request for information on phosphates.

The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government commented on Tuesday on what the position would be should robust scientific evidence become available. Deputy Naughten may not wish to hear this but he will eventually remember that the nitrates directive is not my responsibility but that of another Minister. The Minister stated in the House on Tuesday that if robust scientific evidence is made available to him, he will be more than happy to work with me in persuading the Commission to address the issues of concern. I assume the board of Teagasc will notify these to me on Monday.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I am completely lost, having heard so many twists and turns on this issue from the Minister and her colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Has either Minister asked Teagasc to examine the nitrogen tables?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Has Teagasc done work on the nitrogen tables?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Will both Departments consider amending the nitrogen tables based on the evidence provided to them by Teagasc?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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If the science stands up and the Commission agrees, the tables will be changed. If the Commission does not agree to changes, we will be powerless to proceed. The scientific evidence will be made available on Monday, whereupon it will be evaluated by the two Departments which will, with Teagasc, negotiate with the Commission on that basis.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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In other words, the Department has not asked for evidence but if it receives such evidence, it will present it to the Commission. Have discussions on the derogation been suspended?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We will not table a proposal for a derogation in March because it is not considered beneficial to do so.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister confident of success in securing a derogation in June?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, we expect to have secured a derogation in the summer. This will depend, however, on whether we can include the matter on the agenda of the next nitrates committee meeting. We will do our utmost to ensure it comes up for discussion.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Is it not the case that failure to agree a derogation in June would have serious repercussions?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The derogation must be dealt with as quickly as possible. We are determined to ensure this is the case and I am positive as regards our chances of success.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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Question 7: To ask the Minister for Agriculture and Food the role Teagasc plays in advising farmers on the use of nitrates; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [5702/06]

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The role of Teagasc is to provide integrated research, advisory and training services for the agriculture and food industry. It is a matter for Teagasc to determine the most effective means of providing advice on the requirements of the nitrates regulations as they apply to individual holdings. I expect, however, that such advice would be delivered primarily via this existing network. Advisers and consultants in the private sector will provide similar advisory services. The fact the nitrates regulations will specify maximum fertiliser limits means farmers will require advice, in particular about making the maximum use of the nutrients in livestock manure. This is an area in which Teagasc can play a critical role.

Teagasc will also make important contributions in other areas. My Department is in discussions with it about arrangements for the delivery of information for farmers on the practical implications of the regulations. I have also asked Teagasc to undertake a promotion campaign to demonstrate the nutrient value of slurry and savings farmers can achieve by substituting it for chemical fertiliser. It is particularly important for REPS planners, both in Teagasc and the private sector, to encourage their clients to utilise pig manure on their farms. Teagasc will have an important role in ongoing research and undertaking, participating in or contributing to the specific research commitments contained in the nitrates action plan.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I offer my congratulations to the new Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Mary Wallace. It is interesting that the only mention of women in the run-up to the latest appointments of Ministers of State was in the context of demotion rather than promotion. This is indicative of the fact that journalists are sometimes badly wrong.

While I am not an expert on agriculture, in meetings with farmers I have been impressed by their compelling argument on the issue of nitrates. Teagasc must act in accordance with scientific evidence and the specified limits. Will the nitrates limits give rise to difficulties regarding the use of animal waste and waste from local authority treatment plants? Several years ago, problems arose regarding the means of disposing of rendered meat and bonemeal. Will similar problems occur as a result of the advice Teagasc issues to farmers on the use of animal waste and waste from local authority treatment plants?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Stocking density and nutrient management are matters of concern. Concerns about the disposal of organic fertiliser have arisen in particular sectors, notably the extensive dairy, pig and poultry sectors. The Deputy is correct that farmers will need to work with Teagasc and private advisers to address these concerns and deal with nutrient management. On local authority waste, the use of sludges has been raised in discussions although, as Deputy Naughten should note, the matter is outside my remit.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I am a little hard of hearing.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Catherine Murphy is correct that concerns have arisen in her constituency, which includes substantial areas of tillage. I seek to provide support for those who have these concerns, including by attempting to ensure they are properly informed, which is unfortunately not the case. We will work with farmers to address their concerns. This is the reason we introduced the farm waste management scheme and a new technology package.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Minister referred to the dairy sector. Will the derogation be available to pig and poultry farmers? Has Teagasc investigated the possibility of using biomass plants to deal with the problem of waste from poultry, mushroom growing and so forth? We have plenty of land that could take pig manure. Is a genuine effort being made to minimise the red tape of transferring farmyard manure, which is a fertiliser, from pig farmers to grass or tillage farmers? This is the source of greatest anxiety. Those who want to and could accept the manure feel there is too much red tape and it would cause too many difficulties.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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For the past three months, I have been saying precisely what the Deputy has been saying, which is that adequate spread lands are available. The concerns of customers of the pig and poultry sector need to be alleviated, which can be done only in the context of a working relationship, which unfortunately does not exist. However, we try to provide the greatest amount of information possible to farmers through CMMS and iMap in order to reduce paperwork and bureaucracy about which people have concerns. Ultimately, regardless of the argument, we must work with the people and support them to the best of our ability.

We have done considerable work on biomass and, during the week, I allocated an additional €2.5 million specifically for these issues to give an overall package of €4.5 million. We are looking at stocking rate effects on grazing, season lengths, nitrates leeching on vulnerable soil types, which is important in the Deputy's constituency, assessment of solid-liquid separation systems for pig manure and the influence of pig diet.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Those actions should have been taken five years ago.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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This is based on ongoing research between Teagasc and UCD. We are also considering reliable nutrient management and animal manures. We are considering emissions from land spreading of cattle slurry, cattle wintering facilities and greenhouse gas emissions from beef production systems. All these matters are very important, into which ongoing research is being carried out. The Deputy is right in saying that in some incidences new technologies will represent the answer.

The derogation focuses on the spreading of livestock manure and slurry and seeks to change the level from 170 kg to 250 kg.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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As the Minister knows, pig and poultry farmers do not have the land themselves.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I agree they do not have the spread lands, which is one of the issues that people were prepared——

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Is it fair to say they cannot get the derogation?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The customer will be the beneficiary. Most pig farmers are not involved in tillage, which is why we need to consider practical steps such as diet. Much work has been done by the dietary experts. Much work has been done on centrifuges and separation. If people are prepared to work with me it may be possible to find other solutions for particular areas in order to transport slurry from one place to the other.

Mary Upton (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Will the Minister ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he will publish in full the Teagasc advice on nitrates and phosphates so that Teagasc clients can see the differences between the existing REPS and what is recommended in the directive?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We will need to wait to see what the board agrees on Monday regarding the proposal that has been made. Teagasc made the results of the last scientific research available to the public. I assume that once it has been agreed and dealt with, there is no reason it cannot be made available. However, I would need to wait and could not give the Deputy a definitive answer. My assumption is that, as with any scientific evidence, these results would be made available to the public once the deliberations have been completed.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Wallace, on her appointment.

While we are very good Europeans, we sometimes jump in as we did in the case of the habitats directive when we designated too many areas. Given that this directive would criminalise farmers and would do considerable damage, would the Minister agree in retrospect that the Teagasc advice, which was meant as a guideline and not as gospel, was taken as such by Government and that it jumped too soon? If the decision were to be taken now, would the Government think differently about the issue?

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Government had 13 years.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We have been talking for a long time. As a medical practitioner, I am sure the Deputy would agree that if he neglected something for 13 years he would be in some trouble. This is where we are and this is the problem. While we can blame whomever we want, ultimately that is the issue. Contrary to what has been said, the advice from Teagasc is the scientific advice to be made available to the State. It is either accepted or not accepted by the Commission. In some cases the Commission would not agree with the scientific advice made available. The directive should have little implication in the Deputy's constituency. I have taken into consideration the concerns——

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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REPS farmers will be caught.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Let us be careful.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should not mislead the House.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not misleading the House, that is the Deputy's job.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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REPS farmers are operating illegally.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding REPS, as has been indicated to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture and Food and to so many people on many occasions — the matter was covered in an article in last week's Farming Independent supplement to the Irish Independent— the 121 threshold is rarely if ever reached by REPS farmers, who usually do not exceed 84.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Their plans are illegal, based on legislation enacted on 1 February.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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No, they are not.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Minister should be allowed to speak without interruption.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am entitled to tell the truth in this House and the Deputy's assertion is not true. Regarding REPS plans, similar to Part 3, things remain as they are. Therefore those in REPS are not working illegally.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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They reduced their nitrogen by 1%. It is not being enforced.