Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Question 68: To ask the Minister for Education and Science her response to the proposal by the Irish Primary Principals Network that the management of national schools in the future might more appropriately be through a VEC-type model of joint control; her views on whether there is a need to consider changing the traditional model of patronage in view of changing demographics and religious allegiance; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [5761/06]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The basis for recognising new primary schools derives from the provisions of the Education Act 1998 which allows a prospective patron to seek approval for a school that reflects the characteristic spirit of the sponsor. More recently, through the establishment of the new school advisory committee my Department has put in place a structured, open, transparent and consultative process under which all applications for new schools are processed. The membership of the committee reflects the current diversity of interests at primary level. This approach to new school recognition has enabled schools reflecting diverse interests to be established over recent years. These include single faith schools, including two Muslim schools, and a growing number of schools under the patronage of Educate Together and Foras Pátrúnachta na Scoileanna LánGhaeilge. In the past year a new school was established under the joint patronage of the local Church of Ireland and Roman Catholic bishops.

I am fully conscious that as our population becomes increasingly culturally diverse and secular there will be a need to keep our approach to new primary school formation under review. The challenge is to ensure that diversity can be accommodated and that primary school provision is sufficiently inclusive. This does not mean that the position of established providers both of long-standing and more recent origin should be supplanted to make way for an entirely new model. The test will be how we accommodate difference and ensure tolerance rather than pursuing a one size fits all approach.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for her reply. I welcome the fact that she said the proposal will stay under review but does she agree that huge changes are taking place in our schools and communities? As Minister should she not manage that change, rather than just watch it happen? There is a growing demand for Educate Together schools, Gaelscoileanna and schools for various denominations. The population of towns like Ballydehob or Ballymote is not large enough for such a variety of schools. What is the Minister's view of the situation where some children in a class have the right to be prepared for Holy Communion while others in the same class have a constitutional right not to be? How should this work? The Irish Primary Principals Network has raised this and is in a position to understand the issues. Does the Minister intend to respond to its concerns in this regard?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The obligation of the State is to provide education. Where applications are made for a school by various groups around the country they are subjected to public consultation and the commission on schools analyses the need in a particular area. That does not necessarily mean that complete freedom of choice is available in every area. The historical reality is that schools were provided by the church and religious orders to educate the poor when nobody else would do it. That element should not be written out of the equation.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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History can be interpreted in different ways.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I have visited a few hundred schools in the past year and every school welcomes every child of every denomination and their families. It would be very wrong to give the impression that these children are not welcomed or included, irrespective of where the school is based. Children have rights under the Education Act 1998. Section 30 of that Act provides that no student is required to attend instruction in any subject contrary to the conscience of his or her parent. No child is forced to sit in the first communion class if he or she does not want to and management must take that on board. The curriculum must also take account of the characteristic spirit of the school. Equally, the Department has decreed that a certain amount of time must be spent on various subjects and approximately half an hour a day is allocated to religious instruction or some other instruction related to the ethos of the school. For example, Educate Together has an ethical programme called "Learn together". The board of management must uphold and be accountable for the whole ethos of a school. Rights are specifically laid down in legislation irrespective of where the child is in school, giving the child and the parents the rights the Deputy has asked about.

The revised curriculum also refers to tolerance and respect. At second level the issue is not so stark because vocational schools can be deemed non-denominational, not having any religious representation on the board. As a result, such issues have not arisen to the same degree as at primary level. The churches are looking at new models, including the views of parents and taking into account local factors.

As Minister for Education and Science my job is to ensure education is available which is inclusive, tolerant and respectful of the rights of all. The process and systems we have for recognising schools and the rights clearly laid down in the Education Act 1998 achieve that goal.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Does the Minister not think the second level model to which she referred, involving vocational and community schools, may be a more appropriate model for the times in which we live? Would she at least consider it as a model alongside the one we have at the moment? Given the huge demographic changes taking place are there not teachers in denominational schools who may not subscribe to that denomination?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I have no intention of changing the management of schools throughout the country. I am not the manager or owner of schools. I do not own the sites and I am not a patron, so it is not possible to do so, nor do I want to ignore the contribution made by the present boards of management. The Deputy will have heard me refer to her party leader as being akin to Henry VIII trying to force the churches to surrender their land. There is no other way of getting them to do that.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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That is not what he suggested. We are trying to open a debate.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It is interesting to look at the new schools advisory committee and what has developed in recent years. Of the 25 new primary schools 12 are multi-denominational, six are Gaelscoileanna and just seven are denominational. Change is happening and it is being facilitated. We are open to the needs of an ever-changing Ireland but it does not mean we should have a one size fits all approach throughout the country or change 3,000 school managements overnight.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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That is not what I am suggesting.