Dáil debates

Tuesday, 7 February 2006

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Social Partnership.

3:00 pm

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Forum; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [38710/05]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach when he will next meet the social partners; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39747/05]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the recent activities of the national implementation body; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39750/05]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach the proposed work of the National Economic and Social Council during 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39763/05]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach when the next quarterly meeting of the social partners under the Sustaining Progress agreement will be held; the agenda of same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40403/05]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach the progress on his contacts with the social partners regarding the possibility of a new national agreement to replace Sustaining Progress; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40404/05]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 16: To ask the Taoiseach the matters discussed and conclusions reached at his meeting with representatives of the trade union movement on 4 January 2006; if further meetings are planned; if he expects negotiations on a possible new national agreement to open; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1060/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 17: To ask the Taoiseach the position on the social partnership process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1235/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 18: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his 4 January 2006 talks with trade union leaders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1236/06]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 19: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the social partners. [1868/06]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 20: To ask the Taoiseach the studies being carried out by the National Economic and Social Council; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1870/06]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 21: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Forum; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2325/06]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 22: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on progress in the social partnership process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3205/06]

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Question 23: To ask the Taoiseach the likelihood of a deal with the social partners; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4063/06]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 23, inclusive, together.

As the House is aware, I met a delegation from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on 4 January 2006. The meeting was positive and it was agreed that there would be further engagement at official level with a view to finalising a structure on a possible talks process over the following days. Subsequently, the Secretary General of my Department wrote to IBEC, CIF and ICTU outlining possible arrangements for the conduct of any new round of talks on a successor agreement to Sustaining Progress, in particular around the handling of issues regarding employment standards. It was proposed that a multi-stranded approach would be taken to the conduct of the negotiations and that they would commence with an early plenary meeting between the Government and the four pillars of social partnership to launch the negotiations formally.

In respect of pay and workplace matters, it was proposed that the process of negotiation would reflect the NIB statement of 4 December which recognised the need for urgent engagement on employment standards, displacement, inspection and enforcement, the protection of vulnerable workers from overseas, and related issues raised by congress. This will therefore constitute the first strand of these negotiations. The Government recognises that it is the congress position that significant progress will be made in this first strand regarding employment standards before any substantial engagement takes place around core pay issues. It is proposed that talks with the four pillars on the other strands will commence simultaneously with the employment related strand. Furthermore, as in previous negotiations, another strand of talks around public service modernisation will also be established.

I am pleased to inform the House that, following the vote in favour of entering negotiations by the SIPTU special delegate conference on 31 January and the decision by the executive council of ICTU on 1 February to accept formally my invitation to enter talks on a new national agreement, I formally launched the negotiations at the plenary meeting of the social partners in Dublin Castle on 2 February.

The plenary meeting, which was also attended by my colleagues the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with responsibility for labour affairs provided an opportunity for the Government to set out its priorities for a new agreement and also to hear initial opening statements from the social partners on their priorities for a new agreement. Following on from this, a series of bilateral meetings has got under way. As with previous agreements, the proceedings are subject to normal confidentiality arrangements to protect the negotiating positions of all.

The Government recognises that there are many challenges to be faced in any talks on a new agreement, not least in determining how the area of employment standards should be protected. We believe, however, that the concerns of the social partners on this topic, as on other issues, can best be addressed through a new partnership framework. Social partnership has a proven track record of problem solving, resulting in the radical transformation of our economic and social fortunes since 1987. We believe that with goodwill and determination on all sides, we can negotiate a mutually satisfactory outcome which will deliver further economic and social progress, building on the strong foundations we have already put in place.

The national implementation body, which includes employer and union representatives, operates under the chairmanship of my Department. Its purpose is to oversee delivery of the industrial peace and stability provisions of Sustaining Progress. The body met on a number of occasions over recent months to assist in the resolution of industrial relations disputes in both the public and private sectors. In particular, it played a key role in resolving the difficult disputes at An Post and Irish Ferries towards the end of last year. Meetings of the body also provide opportunities for informal discussion of some of the broader issues relating to the social partnership process and the industrial relations climate generally. The body will continue to meet as necessary to this end.

In December last, the National Economic and Social Council published its three yearly strategic overview of Irish economic and social policy entitled NESC Strategy 2006: People, Productivity and Purpose. The strategy report, as its predecessors did, provides a guiding vision for the coming years for economic and social development in the country and, more immediately, the framework within which the talks will take place.

In the coming months, other studies will include completion of the study on migration policy, which is well advanced. In 2006, NESC will also complete a report on the Lisbon strategy, focusing on the open method of co-ordination. Further studies nearing completion include a study on child poverty and child income supports that will examine the possibility of merging child benefit allowance and family income supplement.

During 2006, the council will consider how best to address other items in its current work programme, including taxation policy and competition and regulation in networked sectors. It will also work on its first periodic social report and a significant NESC contribution to a knowledge society foresight exercise.

The reconstituted NESF held its inaugural meeting on 26 May 2004 in the Royal Hospital Kilmainham at which the work programme for the coming term up to 2006 was discussed, as well as the appropriate structures and working arrangements in the context of the work programme. Early childhood care and education, care for older people and creating a more inclusive labour market were subsequently selected as priority topics. The report on early childhood care and education was published in September last and the reports on care for older people and creating a more inclusive labour market were published recently and laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Cultural citizenship and the delivery of public services have been identified for inclusion in the second phase of the work programme. Preliminary work has been undertaken on both these topics and projects in these areas will commence shortly.

The NESF held the second national anti-poverty strategy social inclusion forum in the Royal Hospital Kilmainham on 26 January 2005. The social inclusion forum gives those who are not directly involved in the social partnership process an opportunity to input their views and experiences in implementing the national anti-poverty strategy. A report of these proceedings was published in April 2005.

The NESF also hosted, in conjunction with UCD, a conference on evidence-based policy making in February 2005. The conference examined the supply and gathering of evidence and applying this in the policy making process and the design of practical policy solutions. The ongoing monitoring and evaluation of policy outcomes was an important focus of the conference.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Taoiseach aware that the latest NESF report published yesterday points out that we now have a wealthier society but a more unequal one, with the wealthiest 20% of the working age population earning 12 times more than the lowest paid 20%, the least well off? Does he acknowledge he has repeatedly indicated to this House that he and his Cabinet colleagues take the NESF reports seriously and give them due consideration in the formulation of policy and approach? Would the Taoiseach agree that if he had taken on board what the NESF had said over a number of years, there would not now be such a gap between rich and poor in our society?

The NESF has repeatedly pointed out measures which should be taken by Government in order to tackle the inequalities in society. What mechanism, if any, is there to proof Government policies against the consequences which have been demonstrated by this most recent NESF report? In other words, what mechanism will the Taoiseach introduce to ensure Government policies are NESF-proofed and that this latest report will be factored into all future consideration?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the role of the NESF and the reason the Oireachtas is involved in it. It exists to proof the work that arises from the partnership process, as well as from other reports and from the Government's views on such matters. As the report points out, in recent years the number of people suffering from consistent poverty has more than halved from 8.3% to4.1%. It also pointed out that the top 3% of taxpayers pay 28% of tax, showing our tax system is one of the most progressive systems extant. It also revealed a host of other areas in which it is a far fairer system for people on average employment than obtains in practically any other country, particularly for lower paid individuals.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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However, it also pointed out that we have one of the worst records of any of the OECD countries——

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It acknowledged the progressive nature of social policy in the past five or six budgets. It makes this point clearly and the statistics bear this out. For example, it notes that for people earning the average industrial wage, the effective tax rate has fallen from approximately 27% or 28% to 15%. Nowhere else in the organised world has been able to achieve this. Moreover, it points to other areas where policy developments should result in a fairer society. To answer the Deputy's question, these issues are studied carefully and are taken into account.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will take three brief questions from Deputies Kenny, Rabbitte and Joe Higgins.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We should be able to continue this debate tomorrow, by agreement. Although it is extremely important, it was ruled out due to time constraints. I will be brief.

I have four supplementary questions. First, in the Taoiseach's view, how realistic is the prospect of a ten-year national partnership agreement? Second, the Department of Finance's economic review and outlook published in August 2005 outlined some sobering matters for the economy. It referred to a sharp fall-off in exports, industrial productivity faltering and a stream of job losses in traditional manufacturing. What assurances can the Taoiseach give the House that these issues will be priorities on the agenda of the talks? Third, the same report states clearly that the economy relies heavily on the construction industry and on consumer spending. What arrangements has the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment made to ensure that these two issues will be central to the partnership talks?

Fourth, the NESC's strategy report for 2006 was published on 15 December. It clearly referred to the scale of immigration to Ireland and noted that immigration adds almost as much again to the rate of population growth as does natural increase and that, obviously, this temporarily improves the age dependency ratio. Arising from that report and given that such workers are welcome here, does the Taoiseach not agree that there is now a desperate need for an integrated immigration policy which will speed up the asylum process, root out exploitation and work to prevent the potential for conflict between national and non-national workers before it takes place?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy Kenny has made a reasonable suggestion about continuing this discussion tomorrow. A total of 14 questions that relate to topical, important, substantial matters have been taken in five minutes. I would like to have time to ask questions about the NESF, the performance of Sustaining Progress and, in particular, the talks that are under way. I would like to pursue a number of detailed questions about displacement and the maintenance of working conditions. However, given the manner in which this matter has fallen, the opportunity has not been provided to do so.

While I am on my feet, may I ask the Taoiseach——

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have a problem in so doing.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It would be helpful if the Taoiseach would agree that we have overshot the available time.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Such a proposal would require an order of the House.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Whips can arrange for the House to return to this matter tomorrow.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It might be better if that was done now.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose that the remaining supplementary questions be carried forward to tomorrow.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The House will hear the Taoiseach's answer to Deputy Kenny's question now and Deputy Rabbitte can leave his questions until tomorrow.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the ten-year strategy, recent agreements have demonstrated that in a number of areas one will not achieve sufficient policy changes or implementation within a short period. One is better off staying consistently with the major issues. They do not change that much from agreement to agreement. Perhaps a few new ones are added, as is the case with employment protection this time. Most of the key issues are the same and there is better implementation of them because they are national issues which have been put forward by NESC following detailed analysis on a wide basis rather than being dropped every few years before being taken up again. It is better to address them on a long-term basis and I hope colleagues agree. Naturally, they will not agree on the pay element but they should at least agree on the policy end of the agreement.

Construction and consumer spend are major issues. The Construction Industry Federation, CIF, and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment are involved in the talks and these issues will be discussed as well.

I refer to the issues relating to integration. We have invested huge resources in the issue of asylum seekers. Staff numbers have increased significantly and the backlog has been dealt with effectively. A quick process is in place to deal with applications. The only delay relates to the appeals process, as applicants keep submitting appeals. Other than that, the system works well. The issues of education, language training and the examination of the structure of employment contracts are being addressed to ensure we do not have difficulties. A study is being conducted on displacement to see if it is a problem and, if so, where and what can be done about it. That work is under way.