Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Question 112: To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the progress made to date in 2006 with his consultations on the establishment of a joint labour committee to protect the interests of domestic workers, especially in view of evidence of exploitation of domestic workers from abroad; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4163/06]

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 115: To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the actions he is taking to protect migrant workers who are employed as domestic workers; and his plans to introduce employment regulation orders outlining rates of pay and minimum standards for domestic workers in light of increasing evidence that these workers are being exploited and mistreated. [4143/06]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 112 and 115 together.

The labour inspectorate of my Department is responsible for monitoring certain employment conditions for all categories of workers, including immigrant workers. The inspectorate operates without differentiation with regard to worker nationality as statutory employment rights and protections apply to immigrant workers in exactly the same manner as they do to other workers. In the area of pay and conditions, it is primarily the provisions of the National Minimum Wage Act 2000 and the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 that apply to employees employed in domestic service. I have no function in the introduction of employment regulation orders, EROs. Such powers are vested in joint labour committees and the Labour Court.

Section 36 of the Industrial Relations Act 1946 provides that an application for the establishment of a joint labour committee can be made to the Labour Court by the Minister, or a trade union or any organisation or group of persons claiming to be representative of relevant workers or of relevant employers. The possibility of establishing a joint labour committee, under the auspices of the Labour Court, has been mooted and is under examination in my Department to determine the feasibility of that approach, including enforcement difficulties arising from provisions in our Constitution and in the European Convention on Human Rights.

The Labour Relations Commission commissioned the University of Limerick to carry out a review of the JLC system in 2005. Arising from this review and following bilateral consultations with the social partners and stakeholders, the Department has prepared a paper that will be used as the basis for implementation of the review in further consultation with the social partners and stakeholders, in the context of the forthcoming partnership talks. The issue of a JLC for domestic workers, and proposals for new JLCs for other sectors, will be considered in this context.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister indicated to me in December last that his Department had held bilateral discussions with relevant stakeholders regarding the implementation of the recommendations in the University of Limerick review. In December, the Minister of State with responsibility for labour affairs promised that the establishment of a JLC for domestic workers was being considered. Since then, there have been two reports, one from the Migrant Rights Centre, which documented cases of low pay, excessive working hours, unreasonable working conditions, illegal deductions and threatening deportation, among women engaged in domestic work here. An investigation by the Irish Independent found that some young women are being paid as little as €25 for a 14-hour day. It found that women who come here to work as nannies, carers and domestic workers end up "being treated as domestic slaves, working 14-hour days, for six days a week, sometimes for as little €1.75 an hour". In the context of that evidence, since the Minister gave me an assurance that the establishment of a system of protecting rights for this category of workers was being considered, will he now accept that it is time he implemented that recommendation, if such a recommendation exists? What is his view on the establishment of a JLC for domestic workers? In the interim, what steps will he take to protect from gross exploitation such vulnerable people who have come to our country?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Any abuse of domestic workers is unacceptable and deserves to be condemned on all sides of the House. My Department no longer generally issues work permits for domestic workers, including carers or minders and nannies, except in exceptional and limited circumstances where the Department may have an assurance that workers have supports in place. As I outlined in my initial reply, the bottom line is that there are significant legal issues in terms of the enforcement powers that labour inspectors would normally have when engaged in compliance checking on entry to the employer's premises and on sight of documentation and so on. However, where the place of work is a domestic dwelling, the position is different. For example, the provisions of Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Articles 40 and 43 of the Constitution come into play and place considerable restrictions on the power of an inspector to enter the said premises.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am aware of the difficulties. What will the Minister do about it?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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These are relevant in the context of inspectors entering private dwellings in pursuance of employment rights compliance checking and enforcement. Article 40.5 of the Constitution provides that the dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law. Article 43 of the Constitution provides as follows:

The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I know all that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy knows it, he will understand why there is a time lag between September and now.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister will do nothing.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy made a big song and dance about being told something by the Minister of State in September. I am pointing out the very real difficulties that occur. We would like to provide a constitutional amendment. We are in discussions with the social partners.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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They tend to be——

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy will be aware, there are other issues in that some of the social partners put forward the idea that recruiting agencies or employment agencies should be designated as representing employers. I would have difficulty with this proposal because it is not logical. I do not think they could represent individuals who would employ people in this context. We have consulted the Labour Court and discussed the matter with the Labour Relations Commission. While the feasibility of this proposal is difficult, we have a positive predisposition to it. We will be anxious to resolve some of the issues during the social partnership discussions.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Has the Minister plans to ensure that domestic workers are made aware of their rights? It is fine to stand here and quote the Constitution. Many Irish workers do not know what is in the Constitution, much less domestic workers coming here from abroad on work permits. Has the Minister plans to make these workers aware of the rates of pay and minimum standards that should apply, for example? Is the Minister considering encouraging these people to join trade unions who would, in turn, make them aware of their rights?

I am pleased these priority questions have been tabled this afternoon because domestic workers are probably the most vulnerable of all workers in the State because they are employed behind closed doors. We know that large groups of workers are not being inspected, so what chance have these people? How many inspections have been carried out in terms of domestic workers? Given that the Minister knows where these workers are, because they are subject to work permits, can he give the House this information this evening? The report of the Migrant Rights Centre outlined how these people are completely isolated. It outlined terrible personal cases of how workers were brutalised in these homes. Is the Minister taking steps to ensure that further inspections will take place? Many victims believe that because the work permit is held by the employer, it is another stick to use against them. They feel they are caught in a trap from which they cannot get free. Has the Minister seen the report of the Migrant Rights Centre and will he react on foot of it?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will meet the migrant action group at some stage to discuss the matters they raised in the context of the Work Permits Bill which is currently going through the House. Part of the legislation relates to the positioning of key information on work permits in terms of wages, conditions of employment and so on which seeks to give added protection to workers, including issuing work permits to workers. This will strengthen the information available to migrant workers. In addition, FÁS has engaged in a substantial information campaign on labour law and the Irish labour situation.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Through what means?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Through multilingual leaflets and a lo-call phone service whereby people from different countries can ring up and get a response in their own language on their rights and entitlements, what is available in terms of employment opportunities and so on. The Know Before You Go campaign aims to talk to people before they arrive in Ireland about their entitlements and so on. I recently launched that campaign with FÁS.

As I said earlier, we do not issue work permits generally for domestic workers because of the difficulties involved in enforcement and the potential for abuse to emerge. This has been a very restrictive feature on issuing work permits to domestic workers. We are aware of very difficult cases where people with significant illnesses who live at home require domestic support and help. In some cases we have responded positively in those situations where we have been given certain guarantees and assurances about supports that would be available. Given the demographics and the way the country is going, if we can get the enforcement and compliance issues right, there is potential for a proper, regulated market in the area of domestic employment. I hope we can iron out some of the representational and legal issues in the context of social partnership because there are wider issues around the joint labour committees and also around the issue of labour law enforcement, on which we have engaged comprehensively and substantively with the social partners.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The latter statement from the Minister is the most important one, that is, that the response should not be to exclude people because there is a definite need and a requirement for people to come, but to regulate properly. That really is the nub of my question; how are we going to regulate properly? Will the Minister indicate how it will happen in the short term? Negotiating with the social partners is one thing.

I welcome the Minister's indication that he will meet with the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland in regard to the work permits Bill, but will he specifically meet the Domestic Workers Support Group, which is a subsidiary of the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland, to hear the specific difficulties it has? Perhaps it could help in finding a solution in regard to this matter.

What is the extent of the Know Before You Go campaign? In what countries does it operate to give clear information? I spoke to a Polish national at the weekend who said Poles ring her all the time and they are unaware of their rights or entitlements. Poles are the most populous group of immigrant workers here so countries that would not be represented in such great numbers would be less likely to have access to that information. I hope the Minister will use the embassies to ensure people come equipped with information.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Of course we will meet with the group suggested by Deputy Howlin. I will come back to him on that. Second, I will organise for FÁS to brief the Deputies in the House on that campaign and the scale of it. The campaign is concentrating on the high volume countries — Poland, Lithuania and Latvia.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Domestic servants would usually come from countries other than those.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We do not issue many work permits for this type of work. There may be a degree of unregulated employment in this area which would be illegal. If non-EU persons are working here without work permits that would contravene the law but it also makes it more difficult in terms of enforcement personnel dealing with the issue.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Quite a number of workers are in that category and we should be dealing with them. The position is that we can only deal with those workers who have work permits. When can we expect to see some protections emerging on foot of the University of Limerick study?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I hope and trust we can reach an agreed solution between Government and the social partners on a broad approach to the enforcement of, and compliance with, our labour law. All of these issues are being actively discussed.