Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is important that the House record its thanks to Kieran Mulvey and his team from the Labour Relations Commission for arriving at a settlement in the Irish Ferries dispute, despite the fact that the Government, through the Taoiseach, said a number of weeks ago that nothing further could be done. While this will change the nature of social partnership, it is very important for the economy that this matter has been settled.

I want to raise with the Taoiseach the Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the PPARS debacle. The Taoiseach should examine the commentary of the Comptroller and Auditor General in respect of his Ministers and their Departments. The Comptroller and Auditor General identified a number of key issues concerning the debacle, which was first raised by me five months ago in the House. The report stated there was a failure to develop a clear vision and a void in decision making caused by the poor handling of the changeover from 11 health boards to the new Health Service Executive. This was explained to the Fine Gael parliamentary party by the chief executive, who said 3,000 of the administrators did not know what their jobs were.

The report also stated there was an initial budget of €9 million which mushroomed to €195 million. The Comptroller and Auditor General stated both internal appraisals of the project fell short of the requirements of a full business case for the project. He said consultants were brought in on very generous terms, that there was no sharing of risk and that the State carried all the risk. A number of contractors were paid higher fees than the ones they tendered at and one recruitment agency, registered in the British Virgin Islands, was paid €2 million. Nobody seems to know who is involved in this company, who represents it and what it was paid for.

At the end of seven years under the Taoiseach's watch, the final cost, excluding that pertaining to voluntary health agencies, is €195 million. We are left with a system that caused little or no redeployment. Additional resources are required for the system and, damningly, there is no evidence of staff savings having been achieved. It is five months since I raised this issue in the House on notice given to me by a concerned citizen. The issue is a scandal and has been discussed by the Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children on a number of occasions.

The Taoiseach received the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and, in this regard, I would like to ask him three simple questions. Whom does he hold responsible for this debacle? Who is being held accountable for this litany of waste? What lessons has the Government learned from this episode?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am also very pleased that a resolution to the Irish Ferries dispute has been achieved, subject to ratification by members. I thank the Labour Relations Commission, under Kieran Mulvey and his team, for facilitating the parties and steering them towards an agreed solution. I thank the national implementation body, which set out on 4 December the proposals that were worked on to make this possible. I congratulate the unions, including both SIPTU and Seaman's Union of Ireland, the management side and everybody involved on their great effort in successfully resolving this issue.

I welcome the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General on PPARS. The value for money reports which his office has introduced in recent years provide a very valuable perspective on many projects and programmes which have helped to shape the Government's future approach. It is clear, given that we have established the Health Service Executive, that we have one authority that can manage the issues that arise. This is a clear signal of the reforms this Government has brought forward and represents the only way we will ever deal with these issues. This is a clear indication from the report.

The Health Service Executive, the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Finance are examining closely the report's findings in respect of the work done over recent months. It will be a matter for the executive, in the first instance, whether it will seek to continue to implement the project. It will decide early next year. The executive will also pay particular attention to recommendations on future information and communications technology projects.

We have all learned lessons on this major issue.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach listen? It was an expensive lesson.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the former members of the health boards, who were part of the decision making process throughout——

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Rubbish.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Who is in the Government? Some €200 million is down the drain.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——as well as many members of the Opposition——

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Spread it around.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is a load of rubbish. It is the same old chicanery all the time.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy was the longest serving member of a health board.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I heard about the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, last week.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In light of the report, it is now possible to take a balanced view of this ICT programme——

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Two hundred million euro down the drain.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——and learn the important lessons on the management of large-scale projects.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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A very expensive lesson.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a lesson for the Health Service Executive members also.

We can ensure the PPARS system is now used to the best effect for the health service. It was the first major ICT enabling project in the health sector for more than 20 years. Mistakes were made and they have been identified in the report. The task now is to ensure that we deal with major projects in the way outlined in the report.

I acknowledge that the Comptroller and Auditor General stated the Government recommendations I announced at the beginning of October were the right ones to introduce to deal with major projects. We will continue to implement them.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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After €200 million has bolted, they are——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Kenny, without interruption.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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They do not like me mentioning the former health board members.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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A sum of €195 million would open a lot of beds.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Kenny, without interruption.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It should be noted that this particular debacle and scandal has continued under three Ministers, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, and the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. When the Taoiseach mentioned former health board members, it was interesting to note that his own Minister sacked all the then serving members and appointed his own coterie of Fianna Fáil supporters who were involved in this matter. Has the Government learned nothing from this scandal? If one examines Mr. Travers's investigation of the illegality of long-stay charges, he stated that corporate governance had failed. This point was echoed by the Ombudsman when she reported to the Joint Committee on Health and Children that the relationship between the Civil Service and the Executive with regard to the business of dealing with consumer interests is not working because the Government has no reform agenda. That is epitomised in this case, where the cost has increased from €9 million to €195 million with no result.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste has joined the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, in making the understatement of the year. He spoke about small change; she speaks about teething problems. In an organisation where €133 million of the public's money had been wasted, heads would roll. However, no head will roll in this case because the Taoiseach will not identify who was responsible for the debacle. If that kind of wastage, lack of commitment or lack of ability was evident in any of the industries in this country, heads would roll but no heads will roll in this case unless they fall off, as happened last week. This attitude typifies the approach of a Government that has become tired and extremely arrogant, as witnessed in the past few days, and one that has been in power for too long. It is suffering from a sense of creeping fatigue.

Deputies:

The Deputy is longer here.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The report of the Comptroller and Auditor General states, as Mr. Travers and the Ombudsman stated, that this problem is not confined to one Department alone. Will the Taoiseach carry out an audit of major projects in other Departments that are clearly going off the rails as well? For example, is it his intention to carry out a full audit with regard to the report by the Comptroller and Auditor General on what has become the shambles of decentralisation?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not sure which of the 25 questions I can answer in one minute.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should answer one of them.

Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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He has not answered them in ten years, never mind ten minutes.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should sack the three Ministers.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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A new system of management and control of ICT projects in Government offices and Departments was announced by the Government during October. The Comptroller and Auditor General's report states this is the right way to go, for which we are glad.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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We need it like we need a hole in the head.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As part of that process, the Department of Finance has introduced a peer review process for ICT projects. Three such projects have been selected to commence immediately. The peer review process will comprise senior personnel from inside and outside the public service with a record of successful management of ICT projects.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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More consultants.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That peer review should help reduce the risk of sub-optimum outcomes, cost and time overruns and unexplored long-term maintenance issues. I have answered on this matter in the House and the review has been put in place.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What about the Virgin Islands?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste answered on that issue. She said there is an examination of why——

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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She was wrong.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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She has clarified the matter.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Who are they?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There were seven minutes for the question. Deputy Kenny has already taken five minutes. He should allow the Taoiseach to respond.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My apologies.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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We cannot get an answer.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is clear the project needed to be scoped properly at an early stage. It should have avoided trying to achieve business and organisational change through the means of an ICT project which should have properly involved users and properly piloted the system before its introduction. The difficulties encountered in terms of the project getting bigger, costing more than estimated and taking longer to complete are common to such projects in both the public and private sectors. There have been many reports on these issues. The challenges in terms of governance were made even more difficult by the fragmented nature of the health board system and the independent status of boards.

The Comptroller and Auditor General's report highlights a number of issues in regard to PPARS and ICT projects generally which we must further examine, and confirmed the immediate action which we have taken.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It is happening every week.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In particular, the Comptroller and Auditor General has highlighted the need for gateway reviews at various points in the life cycle of a project. We moved on this on 11 October last. The new system will ensure that all future major ICT projects will have the benefit of expertise from across the public sector and beyond, if necessary. With regard to PPARS specifically, it is worth pointing out that on the plus side the system works and has paid 36,000 staff regularly so far this year.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Only some of them.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has made over 600,000 payments, amounting to over €950 million.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It paid one of them €1 million too much.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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What is necessary is to get the remainder of the system workable so we can move it on as part of the health reform of one unified agency.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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You are a costly bunch.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I join with Deputy Kenny and the Taoiseach in paying tribute to the patient and diligent work of the Labour Relations Commission in apparently securing a settlement of the Irish Ferries dispute. However, I would be very cautious about claiming this as a great achievement for social partnership. The minimum wage, we are told, will now apply on the vessels and 97% of the workers will be made redundant so I would be slow to claim this as some kind of achievement or suggest that it can be confined to maritime industries. The unions presumably made this settlement when faced with a company that was willing to close if they did not agree. We will debate the matter on another day.

There was no evidence in anything the Taoiseach said that he has any appreciation of how taxpayers, who contribute their taxes to the Exchequer, view €195 million of their money going down the tubes while the Taoiseach makes glib remarks about health board members and so on.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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He has not got a clue.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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If the Taoiseach does not want 23 questions, I will ask him one. Will anybody be held accountable for this mess or will it follow the long line of examples where nobody in the Government is held responsible for anything? A junior Minister might go for a few cans of Dulux paint but he was working for Ministers who have spent and wasted so much money that one cannot add enough noughts to it. Nobody is responsible or held accountable for this huge waste of money yet we get lectures about peer reviews and all the rest.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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This was not another vanity project like those proposed by the Ministers, Deputy Cullen and Deputy Noel Dempsey, or the Taoiseach's own intimations of grandeur at Abbotstown. It happened because of the absence, as the Comptroller and Auditor General's report stated, of any clear goals being set down. The report stated: "Business transformation projects demand a clear and consistent articulation of vision and goals". That is a ministerial task. Where was the Minister? He is probably lecturing some business group this morning on the merits of IT systems.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Or having his photo taken.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Did he read anything to do with this project? Is anybody ministerially accountable for the loss of €195 million? It is a disgrace but the Taoiseach shows no appreciation that taxpayers do not want their hard earned euro spent and wasted in this fashion by the Government.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not sure to whom Deputy Rabbitte is referring when he states that somebody is holding up the settlement as a great victory for social partnership. Deputy Kenny and I did not say that so it is obvious he is talking about somebody outside the House.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Did the Taoiseach not hear the Minister on radio this morning?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not make any glib remark about responsibility.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach did so.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I made it clear that major issues arise, with which we must deal, with regard to this and other ICT projects. I also make the point that the PPARS project began seven years ago in four health board areas. Governance of all activities of each body, including the PPARS project, were pursued on a conjoined basis between the boards and remained with the staff of each of the boards. No board ever signalled any problem with PPARS. There were 70 politicians on the boards, a point we should not forget. These are the facts.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It is an Executive matter.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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That is kicking the dead. It is ridiculous.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will take ministerial responsibility. However, if one looks back at the reviews, which are also being considered as part of this, it will be seen that the health boards and Members on all sides of the House have a responsibility. That is not a glib point.

Deputies:

What is the Taoiseach going to do about it?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have carefully considered the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. Before he began his report, we comprehensively examined the deficiency in this system. The system was initiated to deal with one particular problem on the payroll of the health boards, and began with four health boards. It moved on to take in human resources and approximately 6,500 different systems. The project did not have the management or the coherent structure to do this. Like many things in life, if nothing had been done it would have been better, and they could have let an old manual system full of inefficiencies lie there.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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That is a bit soft.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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It is not right.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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What are these people at?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In fairness to these people, they attempted to put a good scheme together and got the best ICT experts they could.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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They paid dearly for it.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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They paid for the resources. Billions are being spent every year, and they are trying to get a system that could bring coherence between thousands of different grades.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Not so long ago, the health boards did not even know what their staff was and could not say how many people worked in them. They did not know the grades or the conditions. An effort has been made, and is partly made for a large amount of the staff. They have to grapple with the complexities concerning the other issues. It is the correct action to get a proper integrated system of ICT in the health system, as we have done in many others. For example, almost a million people are paid every week in the social welfare system, and many other systems are working perfectly. We must do the same in the health system. It costs money to do this and it cannot be done on a shoestring.

They may have been wiser to benchmark every period and to get better advice among other things. At least we are now working to one singular organisation in the HSE, not 11 health boards all over the place. This was the correct action to take.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I sometimes think the Taoiseach operates in a different reality. Trying to spread the blame as if somebody on this side of the House is responsible beggars belief.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He is spreading responsibility.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Paragraph 3.33 of the report states: "The Health Boards Executive was established in February 2002 and, from that point on, the project's overall policy direction, resourcing and monitoring was overseen by HeBE and the Department". Where was the Minister?

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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He was having his photograph taken.

Johnny Brady (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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He was not unemployed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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A sum of €195 million was spent. This was the setting down of goals, the lack of clarity which the report discusses. The Taoiseach talks now of a shoestring.

Deputy John Brady should take it easy. He can make his maiden speech in a moment.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should be careful.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach talks of a shoestring. A sum of €37 million was paid to Deloitte & Touche, with the State taking the risk. The company has the brass neck to issue a statement today. How many of the Government Members have read it? The company took us for a ride for €37 million and it has issued a patronising condescending statement today about what a good job it has done, and how it could not get clearer directions from its client.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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A good job indeed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The whole thing is sick, and any Minister who presided and squatted at the top of this, whether he read the documents or not——

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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That is highly unlikely.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Now that Ivor is gone, he has no fall guy on this occasion. Any Minister presiding over this debacle and the loss of €195 million of taxpayers' money would walk the plank if he had any respect for his office.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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He would join Ivor.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was not asked a question this time.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He did not hear a question.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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There was a lot of hot air.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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To fill my time, the Comptroller and Auditor General has highlighted some very important areas where the issues which arose with this project should not have happened. While it began in 1998 spending only €1.3 million, it moved in stages to €4.8 million, €5.8 million, €8.6 million, €13 million, €31 million and €47 million, to a total of €117 million. They did not benchmark over this period as to whether value for money was being attained, or whether the aims were achievable. A number of difficult tasks were faced. I will not blame the staff of the core group who worked extremely hard. I will not state that all the consultants who had a part did a great job either, as they did not. I will not disagree on that point.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Call in the Minister at the time, Deputy Martin.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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What of the Minister?

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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He knows what will happen.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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At no stage did the Minister, his Department and the health boards and the political members of the health boards, not believe the system could be made to work comprehensively for the entire staff of the health boards.

Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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He is innocent.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The buck stops with the Minister.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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This was stated in all reports. The project could have been stopped half way through, but it was not.

Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Questions could have been asked.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If that line was followed we would not have probably the best revenue system in the world, one of the best social welfare systems and one of the best passport systems. One has to try with these issues. I disagree that good accountability in terms of the public service or Ministers means if one does nothing one will not get blamed.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What of ministerial responsibility?

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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That is a whitewash.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach yesterday defended the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when he stated the Minister acted in defence of the security of the State. He would not elaborate or give reasons for that belief, or outline the threat to the security of the State. The Taoiseach asked us to wait for the Minister's subsequent statement. The Minister entered the House to deliver a fanciful fairytale.

The Minister repeated without substantiation his claim that a named citizen, Frank Connolly, was in Colombia on a false passport. Mr. Connolly has not been charged with this offence or any other offence which I know of, let alone convicted of it. The Minister linked his allegations to the Colombia three, and he went on to claim that the purpose was to train FARC guerillas in return for large amounts of money for the IRA. He then compounded his allegations against Frank Connolly, again without a shred of evidence, by claiming he was central to this plot. I believe the plot to be a figment of the Minister's imagination.

Does the Taoiseach recall that even the corrupt judicial system in Colombia could not convict the three men of the training of FARC guerillas? Does the Taoiseach recall that the Colombian Government's case collapsed ignominiously and it had to resort to a secret appeals process, where the defendants were not even represented, to overturn a verdict reached in open court? The judicial process heaped further international discredit on the Colombian judicial system.

What exactly was the threat to the State, according to the Taoiseach? Was it the fantasy of the IRA using money from Colombia to subvert democracy, or was it the case that the Taoiseach viewed the threat from the Centre for Public Inquiry, with Frank Connolly as CEO, as greater to the political interest of the Minister, Deputy McDowell, the Progressive Democrats and the Government?

Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Minister, Deputy McDowell, cleared with the Cabinet the proposed meeting with Chuck Feeney and the documentation he showed to Mr. Feeney? Was the Cabinet shown exactly what the Minister proposed to show to Mr. Feeney? Where did the Minister get the documentation? In his address to the House yesterday the Minister said the document was in the possession of the Department of Foreign Affairs yet subsequently, under questioning from Deputies, he said he received it from the Garda Síochána, something he had earlier discounted, if I recall correctly.

What exactly is the threat to the security of the State that has led the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to take this unprecedented action, with the potentially serious consequences it must have for the individual rights of all citizens?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister and I comprehensively answered nearly all of these questions yesterday. I will briefly restate a few points, in case there is any doubt about what I said yesterday. There was no question of there being any campaign by the Government against the Centre for Public Inquiry, which happens to employ the individual concerned.

This matter centres on the fraudulent use of Irish passports and the activities of persons belonging to a proscribed organisation which is bent on subverting this State. The Minister arrived at his judgment and made a decision as it was his responsibility to do. The Cabinet supports his view in the matter. I have no more to say.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach said just as little yesterday. Will he clarify exactly what organisation is bent on subverting the institutions of this State?

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Mr. Justice Flood.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Are any of the Ministers, not to mention the Taoiseach——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy better make a few phone calls.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The House should allow Deputy Ó Caoláin to speak without interruption.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I presume the role of the Ceann Comhairle is to keep order in the Government benches just as he exercises it in respect of the Opposition.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy had been listening I called the attention of the Members——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Ceann Comhairle's efforts fall a long way short of what is required.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have asked the Deputies on all sides of the House to allow the Deputy continue without interruption.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday in the Dáil the Taoiseach quite rightly questioned the whole basis of the so-called "Stormontgate" business in the North. Does he not see the parallel with this case?

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is really bumping along the bottom now.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday he said, regarding this issue, "It means we all went through a great deal of suffering for something that at the end of the day did not seem to add up on examination."

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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My time is well up surely. Does the Taoiseach not see the parallels with the "Stormontgate" situation, where those in a position of influence in a state can fabricate a case against this party, Sinn Féin, and as a result bring about the collapse of public institutions? This parallels the actions of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, with the approval of the Taoiseach, in respect of the Centre for Public Inquiry and the position of Frank Connolly. If the Taoiseach fails to see the parallel he is absolutely blind to the facts.

The fact is that this is a clear, orchestrated effort directed not only at the Centre for Public Inquiry and Mr. Connolly but at this party, Sinn Féin, which I am proud to represent in this Chamber. Does the Taoiseach agree that Stormontgate was an example of a state using its power to undertake political dirty tricks, and that the action of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, which the Taoiseach apparently endorses and connived in, has exactly the same intent as that of the British securocrats? The Taoiseach acts no differently, and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is no different from his counterparts in the British securocrat system who have tried to subvert the new political dispensation emerging in the North of Ireland and throughout the island.

What are the threats——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are seven minutes allotted to each question, the Deputy has already taken up six minutes.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Ceann Comhairle could have said the same to Deputies Kenny and Rabbitte. As this is the last Leaders' Questions of this year I want the Taoiseach to spell out absolutely clearly what threat he believes there is to the security of this State from any organisation today.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not wish to end the last Leaders' Question time in the acrimonious way that the Deputy and I began the year on the subject of the Northern Bank raid. I will confine myself to saying that Deputy Ó Caoláin does not believe there was a bogus passport application form.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What does that have to do with the security of the State?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy believes it did not exist or that Colombia, and all the difficulties arising out of that incident, never happened. I played my role in trying to assist in the release of Irish people held in Colombia. I did more than my fair share when I spoke to the Colombian President and senior officials.

I did not make up the passport application form. Neither I nor the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform placed it in the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Who does the Taoiseach suggest did so?

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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How did that threaten the State?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Somebody had a bogus document. If somebody feels aggrieved at, and maligned by, anything said inside or outside the House there is a way to vindicate himself or herself through the courts——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is exactly what the Minister and this State should have done, instead of abusing this House.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——if a person feels this is an issue. Let us not con ourselves into believing this was not a serious issue.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The only subversion of the State is that which the Taoiseach and his colleagues enact.