Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Defence the type of equipment he envisages being purchased for any potential EU battle group involving Irish troops; and his views on assertions by NATO officials that the battle groups will need to be equipped to go to war. [32209/05]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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I have yet to receive the report of the interdepartmental group which I established to examine all issues relating to battle groups. However, I do not envisage the Defence Forces buying any particular equipment in the context of its possible participation in battle groups. Participation in battle groups will not involve increased investment in the Defence Forces to acquire additional capabilities which are not central or key to our primary tasks in peace support operations, defence of the sovereign territory and support to the civil power and the civil authorities, as set out in the White Paper on Defence. Any offer to a battlegroup will be in the context of these capabilities.

As the Deputy will be aware, significant investment has been made in Defence Forces equipment in recent years to provide them with the most modern equipment to undertake the tasks assigned to them by Government. The upgrading of their equipment, which is continuing, is designed to ensure that the Defence Forces have the necessary equipment to undertake specific roles, including supporting chapter 7 missions under the Charter of the UN, involving robust peacekeeping and peacemaking.

Going to war is not one of the missions contemplated for battle groups, which may only be used for Petersberg Tasks as set out in the Amsterdam treaty. In short, these are humanitarian, rescue, peacekeeping and crisis management operations, including peacemaking. Within the framework of the Petersberg Tasks, battle groups may have to engage in intensive operations to complete their assigned mission. Where there is a need for higher-end capabilities to undertake these missions, these capabilities will be provided by those nations which already have them at their disposal within their military forces.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister's answer is similar to one he gave me in May last, which is a pity because he has not grasped that operating in EU battle groups will require the purchase of additional equipment. Is the Minister aware of the declaration of the European military capabilities commitment conference which was held in Brussels on 22 November last and the European capability action plan which outlines the deficiencies in existing capabilities of member states? The following are listed as required for participation in EU battle groups: attack helicopters, air-to-air refuelling systems, field artillery battalions, cruise missiles and precision guided munitions. Is this the equipment of peacekeeping?

It must be remembered that battle groups can operate without a UN mandate and that this State is supposed to be neutral. The Minister previously stated that there will not be increased spending because Ireland will buy in bulk. This is nonsense because not only will we buy equipment in bulk but we will buy much more of it. Has the Minister read the documents to which I referred and will he make a statement in this regard? When will the Attorney General report on the question of the requirement for a referendum to precede our participation in EU battle groups?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The Attorney General's advice on the matter is the subject of a further question which I will deal with in detail when we come to it. I do not claim to know as much about military hardware as Deputy Ó Snodaigh obviously knows.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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That is below the belt.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Did the Minister read the documents? He is the Minister for Defence.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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I have read the documents. I would not like to leave the House with the misleading impression with which Deputy Ó Snodaigh seeks to leave it. The Deputy specifically stated that EU battle groups can operate without a UN mandate. I have made clear to anyone who wants to listen and I will do so again in words of fewer syllabi, if the Deputy wishes——

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister can use long words if he likes.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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——that if Ireland was to become involved in battle groups, we would not be involved in any specific operation without a UN mandate. I tell the Deputy this in words as small as I can devise.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister can say what he likes, for all I care. I do not trust him.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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If Ireland becomes involved in battle groups, we will not purchase military equipment to contribute to those battle groups.

I do not know if the Deputy is aware of the requirements catalogue for battle groups which will be finalised during the British EU Presidency and which outlines the maximum level of equipment needed for participation in battle groups. Obviously, some of the participating countries will not have all necessary equipment available to them, and if they do not, the position is simple. A multinational battle group consists of troops from a number of countries. This is the only type of battle group in which Ireland would be involved because it would not be able to contribute 1,500 troops — the highest level we can send abroad at any one time is 850 troops. If, for example, countries A, B and C are involved in a battle group and one of those countries has a required piece of equipment, it will be the country to supply it. If none of the three countries has the equipment, inquiries will be made in the other countries contributing to battle groups generally to see if one or more of them have that equipment and would make it available. That is the position. A country can contribute to a battle group not only by sending troops but also by contributing logistics and equipment.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We move to Question No. 4.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have a brief supplementary question.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have gone over time on the question. Given the time limits, I suggest that if Deputies do not interrupt and are succinct in asking their questions, they will get to ask a supplementary question.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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If the Minister stuck to answering the question, it would help.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Minister for Defence the air intercept capability the Defence Forces has; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32081/05]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The most important defence against any terrorist attack is detection and prevention by the security forces. While the Garda Síochána has primary responsibility for law and order, one of the roles assigned to the Defence Forces is the provision of aid to the civil power, meaning, in practice, to assist, when requested, the Garda Síochána. The various components of the Defence Forces are active in this regard, providing such assistance as is appropriate in specific circumstances.

The level of any terrorist threat to Ireland is continually assessed. The advice available to me would suggest that while the terrorist threat to parts of Europe is currently high, it is low for Ireland. However, it is prudent that we take precautions and keep matters under continuous review.

The Defence Forces make contingency plans for a range of scenarios where the State may be at risk. An urgent and detailed review dealing with a range of emergencies was undertaken by the military authorities following the events of 11 September 2001. The assets available to the Defence Forces are related to the level of threat and are considered appropriate in this regard. Air defence capability requires the integrated use of aircraft, radar and air and ground based weapons systems. The Defence Forces have a limited ground-to-air capacity — that has always been the position. The new Pilatus trainer aircraft enhances the airborne elements of our air defence capability. However, we will continue to operate a limited air-to-air and air-to-ground defence capability.

It would be inappropriate of me to go into specific details about the readiness, deployment arrangements or speed of deployment or redeployment of defence assets. However, I can confirm that all Air Corps aircraft have adequate numbers of operationally trained aircrew, who can operate from Casement Aerodrome,Baldonnel, and are available on a 24-hour basis, where required. The shortest scramble time applicable in the Air Corps in certain circumstances is two minutes.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is aware that an air intercept capability was identified as a need in the early part of the decade. Why has this need gone off the radar? I realise such a facility will cost money but as the Minister has pointed out he is chair of the Government task force on emergency planning, established following the events of 11 September 2001 in New York. One area Ireland could be under threat from is the air.

I recently saw a television programme on the genocide in Rwanda between the Tutsis and Hutus while Ireland, a European Union member state, stood by. There is nothing inherently moral about being neutral. What will Ireland do if it comes under threat from the air? Ireland is a neutral country without the capability to protect itself. Will the Minister explain what provisions are in place for an air attack, without telling me the secrets of Fatima?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The secrets are out already. What happened in New York on 11 September 2001 shows how even a powerful country with a large air force and air protection capabilities cannot guarantee it will not be successfully attacked by terrorists. There is no small state, including Israel, that could be said to have a comprehensive air defence system. The threat to Ireland of an attack from the air is low. The expenditure on air defence is commensurate with that threat. Ireland could opt for an Israeli-type air defence system, costing €4 billion a year, but it may never be used. One wonders if this is the best possible use of resources when other Departments are crying out for resources.

Recently the chief of staff publicly said that if funding for the Department of Defence was increased, expenditure on air assets would be his lowest priority. He is in a better position than Ministers to judge these matters. It is a matter of scale as the level of air protection we have is commensurate with the level of threat. It has improved somewhat in recent years.

Many smaller countries take the approach of having a token air defence system, the "something for everyone in the audience" approach. These are systems that can respond in some way to all possible military situations. The view in military circles is that this is worse than useless. It is better to have a ready response to specific situations, with forces specifically trained to respond professionally to several given situations. This is the position on which we have based our air defence system. It is absurd to pretend that a country the size of Ireland could have a fully comprehensive, guaranteed system to ensure anyone who attacked us from the air could never penetrate our defences.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Do we have any arrangement with our near neighbour where we might be able to give them a telephone call if we were attacked from the air?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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There is no formal arrangement. Ireland might be an island but the world is a small place. If Ireland came under attack from the air, it would present obvious dangers to neighbouring states who would be on high alert.